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Being forced to use your "Irish" name at school

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    #992
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Duggys Housemate wrote: »
    Why are you sending your child to a Irish speaking school, you seem hostile to the idea of Irish identity.
    I guess since 99% of all language spoken in Ireland isn't Irish then 99% of people are hostile to Irish identity.
    You can't have it both ways.


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    #993
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    9959 wrote: »
    What are you talking about?

    Do Irish language teachers have a list of English names which must be translated immediately, or do they just alter the ones they believe to be English sounding?

    Are Welsh and Scottish names left intact, or are they also 'gaelicised' post-haste.

    We'll move on to Nigerian and Polish names after you sort out the above, or even Indian names, hence my query about the name Savita.
    Or even as I asked earlier, in non-Gaelscoils it should be OK to insist pupils use an English version of their name, or some makey up name that sounds like it if there is no equivalent.
    Immersive innit?


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    #994
    9959
    Registered Users Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭9959


    ballsymchugh wrote: »
    i wonder has he called/emailed the school yet?

    actually, i wonder does he even have a daughter and just pulled the ultimate troll?!

    Personally I believe him, but at this stage what would it matter, some of the more scournful responses to his opening post have been very real indeed.


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    #995
    Duggys Housemate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,298 ✭✭✭Duggys Housemate


    9959 wrote: »
    What are you talking about?

    Do Irish language teachers have a list of English names which must be translated immediately, or do they just alter the ones they believe to be English sounding?

    Are Welsh and Scottish names left intact, or are they also 'gaelicised' post-haste.

    We'll move on to Nigerian and Polish names after you sort out the above, or even Indian names, hence my query about the name Savita.

    Are you for real or just a troll? English names in Ireland tend to be gaelicised in Irish classes because there is a cognate between Irish and English names and has been for centuries. So Frank Ross becomes Prioncioss De Rossa. Brian Kelly becomes Briain 0'Ceallaigh.

    In general - as I mentioned before - this doesn't, and I agree, shouldn't happen for non translatable names. Or Polish names.

    Do keep up.


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    #996
    9959
    Registered Users Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭9959


    Duggys Housemate wrote: »
    Are you for real or just a troll? English names in Ireland tend to be gaelicised in Irish classes because there is a cognate between Irish and English names and has been for centuries. So Frank Ross becomes Prioncioss De Rossa. Brian Kelly becomes Briain 0'Ceallaigh.

    In general - as I mentioned before - this doesn't, and I agree, shouldn't happen for non translatable names. Or Polish names.

    Do keep up.

    I asked you about Welsh and Scottish names. Do keep up.


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    #997
    Duggys Housemate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,298 ✭✭✭Duggys Housemate


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    I guess since 99% of all language spoken in Ireland isn't Irish then 99% of people are hostile to Irish identity.
    You can't have it both ways.

    I was replying to his clear disdain for the historical idea of the Irish nation rather than any preference for English over Irish.


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    #998
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Duggys Housemate wrote: »
    Are you for real or just a troll?
    Bit of a stock response around here.
    Roughly translates to English-Irish as "you've given me a question I can't answer"


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    #999
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Duggys Housemate wrote: »
    I was replying to his clear
    Clear? Hahahahaha.
    Go on, show us his "clear" disdain. No, "he said something about the Irish language" doesn't count as "clear".


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    #1000
    Duggys Housemate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,298 ✭✭✭Duggys Housemate


    9959 wrote: »
    I asked you about Welsh and Scottish names. Do keep up.

    You didn't just ask about about Scottish and Welsh names, so I'm glad you have nothing in response to my simple and clear explanation of the other facts there.

    They might be translated because there is a cognate. As you might have worked out.


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    #1001
    kraggy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,414 ✭✭✭kraggy


    9959 wrote: »
    What are you talking about?

    Do Irish language teachers have a list of English names which must be translated immediately, or do they just alter the ones they believe to be English sounding?

    Are Welsh and Scottish names left intact, or are they also 'gaelicised' post-haste.

    We'll move on to Nigerian and Polish names after you sort out the above, or even Indian names, hence my query about the name Savita.

    Firstly, bringing the name Savita's into this conversation is is neither necessary nor respectful.

    Secondly names such as hers have no European, never mind Irish version so of course they wouldn't be given an Irish name.

    Most European names have versions in other languages, not just Irish. Take the name John for instance. In Danish it can be either Jan or Hans. In French it can be Jean. In Afrikaans it can be Johann or Johannes. In Irish it is Sean.

    Now, what do you think someone might have been called prior to the English language being forced on us in Ireland, back when Irish was the main language?

    Not John surely?

    So if you go to a Gaelscoil, where Irish (the once dominant language in our country prior to the existence of English on this island) is used through education, well then if there is an Irish version of your name, then expect it to be used.

    And can people please understand the difference between my example above and someone called Pedro from Madrid coming to Ireland and not having his name changed to Peadar.


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    #1002
    Duggys Housemate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,298 ✭✭✭Duggys Housemate


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Bit of a stock response around here.
    Roughly translates to English-Irish as "you've given me a question I can't answer"

    Except of course. I answered the question. Exactly. Remedially.


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    #1003
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Duggys Housemate wrote: »
    You didn't just ask about about Scottish and Welsh names
    Are Welsh and Scottish names left intact, or are they also 'gaelicised' post-haste.
    Weird, I can see it, you even quoted it yourself! Maybe it's some sort of quantum sentence that flips into alternative universes every so often?:D


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    #1004
    Duggys Housemate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,298 ✭✭✭Duggys Housemate


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Weird, I can see it, you even quoted it yourself! Maybe it's some sort of quantum sentence that flips into alternative universes every so often?:D

    Maybe you don't understand the word "just"?


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    #1005
    9959
    Registered Users Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭9959


    Duggys Housemate wrote: »
    You didn't just ask about about Scottish and Welsh names, so I'm glad you have nothing in response to my simple and clear explanation of the other facts there.

    They might be translated because there is a cognate. As you might have worked out.

    "They might be translated..."

    Or might not because they're not English, as you may, or may not, have worked out.
    Penny dropping yet?


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    #1006
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    kraggy wrote: »
    So if you go to a Gaelscoil, where Irish (the once dominant language in our country prior to the existence of English on this island) is used through education, well then if there is an Irish version of your name, then expect it to be used.
    Which nobody was actually arguing against captain obvious.
    So, to recap, in English speaking schools it's OK to force pupils to use the English equivalent of their names for that all immersive English language experience?


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    #1007
    ballsymchugh
    Registered Users Posts: 7,936 ✭✭✭ballsymchugh


    9959 wrote: »
    I asked you about Welsh and Scottish names. Do keep up.

    actually, i wonder did scottish and welsh names take the same hammering that irish names did from mid 1800s to 1920s?

    a lot of present day irish names are anglicised versions of old irish surnames.

    similar to the renaming at ellis island. you took the name the person behind the desk called you.

    it's come full circle now with a lot of people changing their name back (such as the OP's daughter who wants to use her irish surname now).


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    #1008
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Duggys Housemate wrote: »
    Except of course. I answered the question. Exactly. Remedially.
    Yeah, it was "clear".:D


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    #1009
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    So Madsl sends his young wan to a second level Gaelscoil. His choice.

    As a parent he possibly signs the school rules and certainly did not obtain an exemption to parts the school rules ...and accepting the school rules is what a normal person does.

    A few years later the young wan is giving out to him because the school addresses her in the working language of the school what her daddy sent her to. **Madsl translates EG to "Glan as a Mheabhair agus S agus L" or something like that so I could see problems there in all fairness and i would be into the school meself to 'manage outcomes' .

    AND then a few years later he starts a 50 page thread on the school rules that he himself accepted on boards.ie. :D

    Have I correctly summarised the thread so far???


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    #1010
    ballsymchugh
    Registered Users Posts: 7,936 ✭✭✭ballsymchugh


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    So Madsl sends his young wan to a second level Gaelscoil. His choice.

    As a parent he possibly signs the school rules and certainly did not obtain an exemption to parts the school rules ...and accepting the school rules is what a normal person does.

    A few years later the young wan is giving out to him because the school addresses her in the working language of the school what her daddy sent her to. **Madsl translates EG to "Glan as a Mheabhair agus S agus L" or something like that so I could see problems there in all fairness and i would be into the school meself to 'manage outcomes' .

    AND then a few years later he starts a 40 page thread on the school rules he himself accepted on boards.ie. :D

    Have I correctly summarised the thread so far???

    eh, no! :pac:


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    #1011
    9959
    Registered Users Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭9959


    kraggy wrote: »
    Firstly, bringing the name Savita's into this conversation is is neither necessary nor respectful.

    Secondly names such as hers have no European, never mind Irish version so of course they wouldn't be given an Irish name.

    Most European names have versions in other languages, not just Irish. Take the name John for instance. In Danish it can be either Jan or Hans. In French it can be Jean. In Afrikaans it can be Johann or Johannes. In Irish it is Sean.

    Now, what do you think someone might have been called prior to the English language being forced on us in Ireland, back when Irish was the main language?

    Not John surely?

    So if you go to a Gaelscoil, where Irish (the once dominant language in our country prior to the existence of English on this island) is used through education, well then if there is an Irish version of your name, then expect it to be used.

    And can people please understand the difference between my example above and someone called Pedro from Madrid coming to Ireland and not having his name changed to Peadar.

    So if Jan moved over here from Copenhagen he would - with or without his consent - be referred to as 'Sean' by his Irish teacher, would he?


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    #1012
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    AND then a few years later he starts a 50 page thread
    Well, he's posted here a bit, but he didn't type all of those 50 pages now did he?


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    #1013
    ballsymchugh
    Registered Users Posts: 7,936 ✭✭✭ballsymchugh


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Well, he's posted here a bit, but he didn't type all of those 50 pages now did he?

    in fairness, he did get perfectly logical responses in the first few pages, but chose to ignore them.


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    #1014
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    As a parent he possibly signs the school rules and certainly did not obtain an exemption to parts the school rules ...and accepting the school rules is what a normal person does.
    Do you think this is written in the school rules?
    Really, or will you just say it might be or could be or some other nonsense?


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    #1015
    Duggys Housemate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,298 ✭✭✭Duggys Housemate


    9959 wrote: »
    "They might be translated..."

    Or might not because they're not English, as you may, or may not, have worked out.
    Penny dropping yet?

    You're squiggling around the fact you got an answer to your question, didn't deal with the parts which explained the situation with non-English names, and then didn't understand the usage of the word "just".

    Now you have a different response to my response which we might have gotten to earlier if your comprehension skills were up to it.

    Yes , as I said, those names would not necessarily be translated - although I have never seen it with Welsh names. That's because Scottish names are Gaelic names already as Scottish Gaelic is a dialect of Gaelic. It would be like an English school translating a Yorkshire name.


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    #1016
    donegal.
    Registered Users Posts: 4,635 ✭✭✭donegal.


    my daughter goes to a gailscoil. we didn't like the irish translation of her name (a common enough name a long time ago , but v. old fashioned). We asked could she use her english name, No problem. There's 3 or 4 other students in her class that use their english names.


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    #1017
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    ballsymchugh wrote: »
    in fairness, he did get perfectly logical responses in the first few pages, but chose to ignore them.
    The "perfectly logical" ones I saw consisted of:
    1) Why don't you do something about it. Which he sort of was by posting here.
    2) That's what happens in Gaelscoils. And we all know they are sacred so you're not allowed to question anything that happens there.
    Some Irish language fanatics around here extremely twitchy about even the slightest mention of anything at all not hunky dory in the Gaelscoils...


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    #1018
    kraggy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,414 ✭✭✭kraggy


    9959 wrote: »
    So if Jan moved over here from Copenhagen he would - with or without his consent - be referred to as 'Sean' by his Irish teacher, would he?

    Did you even read my post? I said no, such cases shouldn't and don't have their names changed into Irish. Eg Pedro from Madrid, Pierre from Paris.

    Our history is what makes it perfectly acceptable to be called the Irish version of your name IF YOU GO TO A GAELSCOIL.

    If you don't like it then you must have no understanding of the place in Irish history that the Irish language has, or you don't understand a fundamental fact of the Gaelscoileanna, that they educate through a language that was in existence before a single English word wad uttered on this isle.


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    #1019
    ballsymchugh
    Registered Users Posts: 7,936 ✭✭✭ballsymchugh


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    The "perfectly logical" ones I saw consisted of:
    1) Why don't you do something about it. Which he sort of was by posting here.
    2) That's what happens in Gaelscoils. And we all know they are sacred so you're not allowed to question anything that happens there.
    Some Irish language fanatics around here extremely twitchy about even the slightest mention of anything at all not hunky dory in the Gaelscoils...

    posting here wasn't doing anything about it, he was told that he should call the school on her behalf.

    as donegal just posted, it's not really a big issue if you ask.


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    #1020
    kraggy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,414 ✭✭✭kraggy


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Which nobody was actually arguing against captain obvious.
    So, to recap, in English speaking schools it's OK to force pupils to use the English equivalent of their names for that all immersive English language experience?

    Another captain smart arse who can't read a post properly.

    It's the whole basis of the argument. Or did you get so caught up in your crap that you forgot?


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    #1021
    9959
    Registered Users Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭9959


    Duggys Housemate wrote: »
    You're squiggling around the fact you got an answer to your question, didn't deal with the parts which explained the situation with non-English names, and then didn't understand the usage of the word "just".

    Now you have a different response to my response which we might have gotten to earlier if your comprehension skills were up to it.

    Yes , as I said, those names would not necessarily be translated - although I have never seen it with Welsh names. That's because Scottish names are Gaelic names already as Scottish Gaelic is a dialect of Gaelic. It would be like an English school translating a Yorkshire name.

    When did you say "those names would not necessarily be translated"?

    "comprehension skills"!?

    Would it not be better to use the name given to the child by her parents, or is that beyond your 'comprehension'?


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