Being forced to use your "Irish" name at school

11-04-2013 10:48AM

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

In general, as anybody who has gone through the Irish system knows, you get an Irish ( in Irish class) and English version of your name ( everywhere else). It doesn't affect your legal name.

So Savita would be?

rubadub · 11-04-2013 10:49AM

9959 wrote: »

but if her name was Savita, what would the teachers try to change it to in order for it to sound more Irish?

Teacher in my place would have put a fada on the last a, he stuck a O in front of my surname and a fada on the vowel he liked best, it was comical what he used to come up with. Might change the v to bh too. If Malcom X was in his class he would have been Malcom O'X with a fada on the X.

Peregrinus · 11-04-2013 10:51AM

9959 wrote: »

As he lives in America it's more than likely that he's 'tucked up'.

I can't believe the hostility he's received, his daughter is being addressed by a name which isn't hers, she would prefer her own name to be used.

Name changing/calling is a form of bullying, admittedly low on the scale, but wrong nonetheless.

If her name's Emma, then her teachers should call her Emma, simple!
Perhaps some Irish speakers could help here, but if her name was Savita, what would the teachers try to change it to in order for it to sound more Irish?

Well, I have to say that the discussion has been characterised by a degree of intemperance on both sides. The OP’s claim is that his daughter is required to use an Irish equivalent of her name at her (Irish-language) school, and that she finds this irritating. Others have escalated this to a claim that she is being required to change her name, that she is being bullied, even that this is a breach of “universal human rights”. There’s no way ‘round it; claims like these are overblown.

“Savita” would probably be gaelicised as “Sadhbh”. Why do you ask?

Duggys Housemate · 11-04-2013 10:51AM

9959 wrote: »

So Savita would be?

Savita wouldnt be changed, in general. That was generally moot when I was growing up but I knew a girl with a German surname which wasn't changed. Traditional English->Irish translation.

11-04-2013 11:02AM

Peregrinus wrote: »

Well, I have to say that the discussion has been characterised by a degree of intemperance on both sides. The OP’s claim is that his daughter is required to use an Irish equivalent of her name at her (Irish-language) school, and that she finds this irritating. Others have escalated this to a claim that she is being required to change her name, that she is being bullied, even that this is a breach of “universal human rights”. There’s no way ‘round it; claims like these are overblown.

“Savita” would probably be gaelicised as “Sadhbh”. Why do you ask?

My guess was that the English sounding names would be more hastily 'gaelicised', as stated below:

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Savita wouldnt be changed, in general. That was generally moot when I was growing up but I knew a girl with a German surname which wasn't changed. Traditional English->Irish translation.

miss no stars · 11-04-2013 11:05AM

Peregrinus wrote: »

The OP’s claim is that his daughter is required to use an Irish equivalent of her name at her (Irish-language) school, and that she finds this irritating.

Actually, what I've seen the OP say is that there is no Irish equivalent of her name, so the school picked a similar but different name for her and are expecting her to use that. NOT that she objects to using the Irish version of her name.

johnolocher · 11-04-2013 11:11AM

Peregrinus wrote: »

Well, I have to say that the discussion has been characterised by a degree of intemperance on both sides. The OP’s claim is that his daughter is required to use an Irish equivalent of her name at her (Irish-language) school, and that she finds this irritating. Others have escalated this to a claim that she is being required to change her name, that she is being bullied, even that this is a breach of “universal human rights”. There’s no way ‘round it; claims like these are overblown.

“Savita” would probably be gaelicised as “Sadhbh”. Why do you ask?

He's probably asking to show the obscurity of just giving names with no Irish translation the one that sounds or looks most like it. I'd assume most Irish teachers would leave Savita as it is, but if they did change it to Sadhbh then I'm sure there would be an equal amount of LOL and disbelief. Leave names alone

LordSutch · 11-04-2013 11:15AM

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Savita wouldnt be changed, in general. That was generally moot when I was growing up but I knew a girl with a German surname which wasn't changed. Traditional English->Irish translation.

MY Christian name would be considered a traditional name used in Ireland (with an English origin), same with my Surname which would also be of English origins way back when, both of which were gaelicised when I was in school by adding two fadas, plus an O before my surname

kylith · 11-04-2013 11:17AM

miss no stars wrote: »

Actually, what I've seen the OP say is that there is no Irish equivalent of her name, so the school picked a similar but different name for her and are expecting her to use that. NOT that she objects to using the Irish version of her name.

And that could probably be fixed with one visit to the school to explain that this is upsetting to the child. Persistently calling the principal by the wrong name would probably help drive the point home.

VinLieger · 11-04-2013 11:19AM

I just dont get the obsession irish teachers have with "translating" a name into irish? What does it add? Also in my opinion you cant translate a name you can only at best find an equivalent which is not the same or just add the odd fadtha or O which is even more desperate and ridiculous.

laoch na mona · 11-04-2013 11:23AM

VinLieger wrote: »

I just dont get the obsession irish teachers have with "translating" a name into irish? What does it add? Also in my opinion you cant translate a name you can only at best find an equivalent which is not the same or just add the odd fadtha or O which is even more desperate and ridiculous.

no Irish teacher I had did that and ya you can translate names ok obviously some like Jacenta or that sort can't be translated

VinLieger · 11-04-2013 11:26AM

laoch na mona wrote: »

no Irish teacher I had did that and ya you can translate names ok obviously some like Jacenta or that sort can't be translated

I had a horrific teacher who insisted on it and had it done for irish college as well. But since its never a proper translation i just dont see the point. My name isnt an english version of something its simply my name and not part of a language therefore the idea of translating a name to me makes no sense

Gambas · 11-04-2013 11:26AM

VinLieger wrote: »

I just dont get the obsession irish teachers have with "translating" a name into irish? What does it add?

Irish teachers don't have an obsession with it. They are simply following standard practice in Irish language schools. What does it add? It is supposed to give the child an Irish identity.

Also in my opinion you cant translate a name you can only at best find an equivalent which is not the same or just add the odd fadtha or O which is even more desperate and ridiculous.

Totally depends on the name. Most Irish surnames are anglicised Irish names, and 'christian' names almost always have an Irish equivalent (just like they have a French or German or Swedish equivalent).

Duggys Housemate · 11-04-2013 11:28AM

9959 wrote: »

My guess was that the English sounding names would be more hastily 'gaelicised', as stated below:

Its not that they are English sounding, it is that there are translations for English names.

VinLieger · 11-04-2013 11:28AM

Gambas wrote: »

Irish teachers don't have an obsession with it. They are simply following standard practice in Irish language schools. What does it add? It is supposed to give the child an Irish identity.

So being irish isnt enough anymore? your name has to be "translated" into irish for you to be truly irish? Not trying to argue just curious if thats whats happening or being encouraged

laoch na mona · 11-04-2013 11:32AM

VinLieger wrote: »

I had a horrific teacher who insisted on it and had it done for irish college as well.

in irish college i can understand it being done

ballsymchugh · 11-04-2013 11:36AM

i wonder has he called/emailed the school yet?

actually, i wonder does he even have a daughter and just pulled the ultimate troll?!

LordSutch · 11-04-2013 11:37AM

VinLieger wrote: »

So being irish isnt enough anymore? your name has to be "translated" into irish for you to be truly irish? Not trying to argue just curious if thats whats happening or being encouraged

Its been done to all school children in all schools since the foundation of the State, my own kids will be given their 'Irish names' in due course :cool:

I guess Gaelscoils are on another level though, and I would fully expect them to turn everything into Irish.

VinLieger · 11-04-2013 11:40AM

Still dont understand the purpose and if or when i have kids and its done to them ill deffinitely kick up a fuss right from the start

Gambas · 11-04-2013 11:42AM

VinLieger wrote: »

So being irish isnt enough anymore? your name has to be "translated" into irish for you to be truly irish? Not trying to argue just curious if thats whats happening or being encouraged

Seriously?

You're not trying to argue, but your suggesting that the motivation is to split people in to the Irish and the not truly Irish? I find that hard to believe to be honest.

Of course that isn't the case. When I was at school it was a time when almost all of the kids in our classroom in a gaelscoil did have names that had obvious Irish equivalents. Now that isn't the case, so kids that don't have easy to translate names are left as is (in almost all cases these aren't 'English' names but continental names, or further afield). I have a daughter with what could best be described as a continental name that the Gaelscoil combines with the Irish version of her surname and a son who has his christian name (because effectively it is a old style christian name) and surname changed into Irish. To suggest that the aim is to make her feel less Irish is just idiotic to be frank.

VinLieger · 11-04-2013 11:44AM

Gambas wrote: »

Seriously?

You're not trying to argue, but your suggesting that the motivation is to split people in to the Irish and the not truly Irish? I find that hard to believe to be honest.

Of course that isn't the case. When I was at school it was a time when almost all of the kids in our classroom in a gaelscoil did have names that had obvious Irish equivalents. Now that isn't the case, so kids that don't have easy to translate names are left as is (in almost all cases these aren't 'English' names but continental names, or further afield). I have a daughter with what could best be described as a continental name that the Gaelscoil combines with the Irish version of her surname and a son who has his christian name (because effectively it is a old style christian name) and surname changed into Irish. To suggest that the aim is to make her feel less Irish is just idiotic to be frank.

I didnt suggest it, i was asking a question and I was responding to a post that said they were being given these names so they could have "irish identities"

Gambas · 11-04-2013 11:44AM

VinLieger wrote: »

Still dont understand the purpose and if or when i have kids and its done to them ill deffinitely kick up a fuss right from the start

Clearly given your antipathy to Irish, Irish teaching and the use of Irish names, you have no business sending your child to a gaelscoil, so I wouldn't give it another moments thought.

Gambas · 11-04-2013 11:46AM

VinLieger wrote: »

I didnt suggest it, i was asking a question and I was responding to a post that said they were being given these names so they could have "irish identities"

Yes, you did suggest it:

VinLieger wrote:

your name has to be "translated" into irish for you to be truly irish?

VinLieger · 11-04-2013 11:46AM

Gambas wrote: »

Clearly given your antipathy to Irish, Irish teaching and the use of Irish names, you have no business sending your child to a gaelscoil, so I wouldn't give it another moments thought.

I never would send my child to a gealscoil but with my own experience in it being done to me in a non-gaeilscoil i will be on the lookout for it. And until irish is removed as compulsory i will also probably send my child to an irish college and will watch for it there too.

VinLieger · 11-04-2013 11:47AM

Gambas wrote: »

Yes, you did suggest it:

I questioned it, see that question mark its was a question a simple no would suffice and id be happy but you seemed to get a bee in your bonnet and read it the way you wanted to

Gambas · 11-04-2013 11:51AM

VinLieger wrote: »

I never would send my child to a gealscoil but with my own experience in it being done to me in a non-gaeilscoil i will be on the lookout for it. And i until irish is removed as compulsory i will also probably send my child to an irish college and will watch for it there too.

Good man. Vigilance is the answer. Keep a good close eye on it. Them and their dastardly plans to sneak fada's onto your unborn childrens names.

LordSutch · 11-04-2013 11:54AM

Gambas wrote: »

Them and their dastardly plans to sneak fada's onto your unborn childrens names.

No plans, just an old tradition since the 1920s which many people disagree with.

I dread to see what they are going to do to my kids names, but at least it only for their school livesl.

Noodleworm · 11-04-2013 11:56AM

My primary school used to do this and I hated. Appart from the really badly translated last name, I kind of refused the new first name. The teacher changed 'Claire' to "Clár", which I believe means 'board'? (google translate tell me it means program)

Dan_Solo · 11-04-2013 12:11PM

Míshásta wrote: »

Well, most schools whether in Irish speaking regions or not prior to independence refused Irish names and insisted on anglicised versions and yes they were unfortunately often "random"

Oh, someone else did it so it's OK.
Best reasoning ever.

11-04-2013 12:13PM

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Its not that they are English sounding, it is that there are translations for English names.

What are you talking about?

Do Irish language teachers have a list of English names which must be translated immediately, or do they just alter the ones they believe to be English sounding?

Are Welsh and Scottish names left intact, or are they also 'gaelicised' post-haste.

We'll move on to Nigerian and Polish names after you sort out the above, or even Indian names, hence my query about the name Savita.

Being forced to use your "Irish" name at school

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