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Being forced to use your "Irish" name at school

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    #932
    kraggy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,414 ✭✭✭kraggy


    MadsL wrote: »
    I'm sure they did, as tribes. Where does the nation bit come in?


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_language

    Irish was the predominant language of the Irish people for most of their recorded history, and they brought their Gaelic speech with them to other countries, notably Scotland and the Isle of Man, where it gave rise to Scottish Gaelic and Manx.[5][6][7] It has the oldest vernacular literature in Western Europe.[8] In the Elizabethan era the Gaelic language was viewed as something barbarian and as a threat to all things English in Ireland. Consequently, it began to decline under English and British rule after the seventeenth century. The nineteenth century saw a dramatic decrease in the number of speakers especially after the Great Famine of 1845–1852 (where Ireland lost 20–25% of its population either to emigration or death). Irish-speaking areas were especially hit hard. By the end of British rule, the language was spoken by less than 15% of the national population.[9] Since then, Irish speakers have been in the minority except in areas collectively known as the Gaeltacht. Ongoing efforts have been made to preserve, promote and revive the language, particularly the Gaelic Revival.


    ________________________________________________


    http://www.coimisineir.ie/index.php?page=faoin_teanga&lang=english&tid=23


    By the 5th Century AD, Irish was established as the dominant language in Ireland. However, the structures of Gaelic society were destroyed in the 16th and 17th Centuries as English rule was consolidated in Ireland. By the end of the 18th Century, less than 50% of the population was monolingual Irish-speaking and that sector consisted primarily of the rural poor.


    _____________________________________________________


    So betweeen 5th and 18th century, Gaeilge was the majority, dominant language in the country.


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    #933
    WayneMolloy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 713 ✭✭✭WayneMolloy


    MadsL wrote: »
    At least the Czechs wrote a list of 365 Saints to choose from - and you get both a name day and a birthday.

    http://www.myczechrepublic.com/czech_culture/czech_name_days/alphabetical.html

    Perhaps a list should be formally 'approved'? After all this is serious stuff.

    Since EU enlargement, many an Irish lad has fallen foul of this namesday lark - What, I was supposed to get you a present for your namesday AND your birthday?


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    #934
    Smidge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,541 ✭✭✭Smidge


    kraggy wrote: »
    MadsL gave that as an example of being an incorrect version of John when it's actually correct.

    AFAIK
    Sean = John
    Eoin = Ian


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    #935
    kraggy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,414 ✭✭✭kraggy


    MadsL wrote: »
    I'm sure they did, as tribes. Where does the nation bit come in?


    Can't believe you're still here 60+ pages later bitching about this. Have you requested a meeting with the school even?


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    #936
    kraggy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,414 ✭✭✭kraggy


    Smidge wrote: »
    AFAIK
    Sean = John
    Eoin = Ian



    The whole point about Irish names and English names is that they are versions of each other, not translations.

    Eoin can be a version of both Ian and John.


    __________________________________________

    "Eoin (pronounced like "Owen", or "O-an", and sometimes spelt Eóin or Eoinn) is an Irish name, cognate with John. In the Irish language, it is the name used for all Biblical figures known as John in English, including John the Baptist and John the Apostle.

    It is related to the Scottish Gaelic name Iain".


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eoin


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    #937
    MadsL
    Registered Users Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    kraggy wrote: »
    Can't believe you're still here 60+ pages later bitching about this. Have you requested a meeting with the school even?

    Yes. I'm flying business next week, just in for 24 hours. (adjusts monocle)

    None of those links mention a nation by the way. No biggie, just to note it.


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    #938
    MadsL
    Registered Users Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    kraggy wrote: »
    The whole point about Irish names and English names is that they are versions of each other, not translations.

    Eoin can be a version of both Ian and John.

    Ah here. Leave it out. What sorcery is this now.


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    #939
    WayneMolloy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 713 ✭✭✭WayneMolloy


    MadsL wrote: »
    Yes. I'm flying business next week, just in for 24 hours. (adjusts monocle).

    If you are emigrant with an Irish child still in school in Ireland - I would you suggest that you email her teachers, under the prefix of seeing how she is getting on in class. During your correspondence, throw a brief sentence or two in there about the name issue.

    No big deal, you just mentioned it off the cuff - problem resolved.


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    #940
    kraggy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,414 ✭✭✭kraggy


    MadsL wrote: »
    Yes. I'm flying business next week, just in for 24 hours. (adjusts monocle)

    None of those links mention a nation by the way. No biggie, just to note it.


    And I just scanned the wiki page for the French language. And guess what, no mention of the word nation even though you and I know that it's the dominant language of France.

    MadsL wrote: »
    Ah here. Leave it out. What sorcery is this now.


    You conveniently left out the remainder of my post. The part about versions. That applies to all languages, not just Irish.

    My work here is done.

    Codladh sámh, oíche mhaith.


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    #941
    Miss Lockhart
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,639 ✭✭✭Miss Lockhart


    I can't believe this thread is still going around in the same pointless circles. The OP says he wants casual debate and some interesting opinons but all he does is thank those that agree with him and give "smart" or "tongue in cheek" facetious responses to those he disagrees with. That's not engaging in debate, unless it's some sort of TY inter-schools competition where sly digs and cheap shots are seen as cool.

    The OP clearly has an agenda so it's pointless to engage.


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    #942
    MadsL
    Registered Users Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    If you are emigrant with an Irish child still in school in Ireland - I would you suggest that you email her teachers, under the prefix of seeing how she is getting on in class. During your correspondence, throw a brief sentence or two in there about the name issue.

    No big deal, you just mentioned it off the cuff - problem resolved.

    That's a good suggestion. My plan actually was to throw it in there as an off the cuff remark with the Principal on the back of enquiring about documents for her Green Card.

    People think I'm not picking up the phone, but I have some wider issue correspondance and admin I need to do with the school shortly.


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    #943
    Miss Lockhart
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,639 ✭✭✭Miss Lockhart


    MadsL wrote: »
    People think I'm not picking up the phone,

    People think it because you said it.


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    #944
    MadsL
    Registered Users Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    Miss Lockhart wrote: »
    I can't believe this thread is still going around in the same pointless circles. The OP says he wants casual debate and some interesting opinons but all he does is thank those that agree with him and give "smart" or "tongue in cheek" facetious responses to those he disagrees with. That's not engaging in debate, unless it's some sort of TY inter-schools competition where sly digs and cheap shots are seen as cool.

    The OP clearly has an agenda so it's pointless to engage.

    Gotta love when people play the agenda card without actually naming what they suppose the "agenda" to be.

    Very McCarthy era style dig in matter of fact.

    Teachers getting very defensive.


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    #945
    MadsL
    Registered Users Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    Miss Lockhart wrote: »
    People think it because you said it.

    Indeed I have been very clear about why I haven't yet called them. Still the digs come in.

    Why are you back here?


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    #946
    Miss Lockhart
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,639 ✭✭✭Miss Lockhart


    MadsL wrote: »
    Indeed I have been very clear about why I haven't yet called them. Still the digs come in.

    Why are you back here?

    To clarify why people think you are not picking up the phone. People think it because you said it and because according to yourself it is in fact true.

    Why are you still making facetious comments?


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    #947
    WayneMolloy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 713 ✭✭✭WayneMolloy


    MadsL wrote: »
    That's a good suggestion. My plan actually was to throw it in there as an off the cuff remark with the Principal on the back of enquiring about documents for her Green Card.

    People think I'm not picking up the phone, but I have some wider issue correspondance and admin I need to do with the school shortly.

    If you are corresponding with them already, thats half the job done. In the course of your email conversation, just throw it out there - xxxx feels that her name is part of her identity and does not feel too comfortable when people change it to as gaeilge or anything else. Could you mention that to your colleagues. Just a little thing.

    And continue on with the rest of the mail.

    Problem would be nipped in the bud right there. Easy as that.


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    #948
    MadsL
    Registered Users Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    Miss Lockhart wrote: »
    To clarify why people think you are not picking up the phone. People think it because you said it and because according to yourself it is in fact true.

    Why are you still making facetious comments?

    Look at the top of the page. Do you see After Hours? That's probably why. Open the same thread in teaching, and I'll come and behave Miss, honest.


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    #949
    Miss Lockhart
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,639 ✭✭✭Miss Lockhart


    MadsL wrote: »
    Look at the top of the page. Do you see After Hours? That's probably why. Open the same thread in teaching, and I'll come and behave Miss, honest.

    Oh, so it was just another opportunity to sneer at those with a different opinion to you, rather than to have a discussion. Condescend away so.


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    #950
    MadsL
    Registered Users Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    Miss Lockhart wrote: »
    Oh, so it was just another opportunity to sneer at those with a different opinion to you, rather than to have a discussion. Condescend away so.

    I'm sneering that after almost 1000 posts no-one seem to know why changing the name for just certain pupils is a pre-requisite to learning through Irish.

    Hell, we cannot even get to a standard definition for what names equal what as gaeilge.

    Care to have a stab at it?


  • Options
    #951
    Miss Lockhart
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,639 ✭✭✭Miss Lockhart


    MadsL wrote: »
    I'm sneering that after almost 1000 posts no-one seem to know why changing the name for just certain pupils is a pre-requisite to learning through Irish.

    Hell, we cannot even get to a standard definition for what names equal what as gaeilge.

    Care to have a stab at it?

    Why would anyone want to have a stab just to be sneered at? Don't pretend you're even interested.


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    #952
    MadsL
    Registered Users Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    Miss Lockhart wrote: »
    Why would anyone want to have a stab just to be sneered at? Don't pretend you're even interested.

    Well you could win my glowing admiration for coming up with an actual reason for the tradition rather than woolly immersion theory filler that really doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

    Or you could just keep throwing digs.

    Your choice.


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    #953
    onrail
    Registered Users Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭onrail


    MadsL wrote: »
    My daughter attends a second-level gaelscoil that insists on calling her by a translation of her actual name that sound similar to her actual name but is in fact a different Irish name. She hates it and has frequently resisted it by saying to her teacher 'that's not my name'. Her teachers continually 'correct' her if she asserts that her name is her name by repeating the translated name back to her.

    Should she put up with this? What does AH think?

    íosa ****ing chríost


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    #954
    Miss Lockhart
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,639 ✭✭✭Miss Lockhart


    MadsL wrote: »
    Well you could win my glowing admiration for coming up with an actual reason for the tradition rather than woolly immersion theory filler that really doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

    Or you could just keep throwing digs.

    Your choice.

    What digs have I thrown? I stated the facts as I see them - that you are making smart arsed, facetious, condescending comments and sneering at those with whom you disagree, instead of engaging in discussion. This leads me to believe there must be an agenda behind your posts. Otherwise it's just flaming and trolling.

    Good luck to your daughter in resolving the issue to her liking.

    Good night.


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    #955
    MadsL
    Registered Users Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    Miss Lockhart wrote: »
    What digs have I thrown? I stated the facts as I see them - that you are making smart arsed, facetious, condescending comments and sneering at those with whom you disagree, instead of engaging in discussion. This leads me to believe there must be an agenda behind your posts. Otherwise it's just flaming and trolling.

    Or sheer disbelief at those defending this bizarre tradition and the actions of teachers who are condescending in real life. I do find the watery justifications very odd.
    Good luck to your daughter in resolving the issue to her liking.

    Good night.

    Thanks, I'm sure we will get it sorted.


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    #956
    Feathers
    Registered Users Posts: 1,082 ✭✭✭Feathers


    You said it's an exam year for her, so just to clarify, you've been letting her 'fight her own battles' ineffectively for three years (at least) and only now are you going to send an e-mail in?


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    #957
    Oranage2
    Registered Users Posts: 11,128 ✭✭✭✭Oranage2


    Feathers wrote: »
    You said it's an exam year for her, so just to clarify, you've been letting her 'fight her own battles' ineffectively for three years (at least) and only now are you going to send an e-mail in?

    You got to respect the guy as a father, let her fight her own battle when she's a kid but his little angle is all grown up he steps in.


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    #958
    aSligoDub
    Closed Accounts Posts: 95 ✭✭aSligoDub


    You'll not get an answer from the OP, he's signed off from this thread (again)


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    #959
    Duggys Housemate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,298 ✭✭✭Duggys Housemate


    MadsL wrote: »
    Yes. I'm flying business next week, just in for 24 hours. (adjusts monocle)

    None of those links mention a nation by the way. No biggie, just to note it.

    Presumably the definition of a nation is already known ( its not cognate with a State).

    Why are you sending your child to a Irish speaking school, you seem hostile to the idea of Irish identity.


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    #960
    9959
    Registered Users Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭9959


    aSligoDub wrote: »
    You'll not get an answer from the OP, he's signed off from this thread (again)

    As he lives in America it's more than likely that he's 'tucked up'.

    I can't believe the hostility he's received, his daughter is being addressed by a name which isn't hers, she would prefer her own name to be used.

    Name changing/calling is a form of bullying, admittedly low on the scale, but wrong nonetheless.

    If her name's Emma, then her teachers should call her Emma, simple!
    Perhaps some Irish speakers could help here, but if her name was Savita, what would the teachers try to change it to in order for it to sound more Irish?


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    #961
    Duggys Housemate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,298 ✭✭✭Duggys Housemate


    9959 wrote: »
    As he lives in America it's more than likely that he's 'tucked up'.

    I can't believe the hostility he's received, his daughter is being addressed by a name which isn't hers, she would prefer her own name to be used.

    Name changing/calling is a form of bullying, admittedly low on the scale, but wrong nonetheless.

    If her name's Emma, then her teachers should call her Emma, simple!
    Perhaps some Irish speakers could help here, but if her name was Savita, what would the teachers try to change it to in order for it to sound more Irish?

    In general, as anybody who has gone through the Irish system knows, you get an Irish ( in Irish class) and English version of your name ( everywhere else). It doesn't affect your legal name.


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