RTE & the property tax

donegal_road · 19-04-2013 9:37am

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Your safe here on AH though. Only 32% paid the HHC and 37% said they would vote Sinn Fein if there was an election last year. Making them the biggest party in the country 10% ahead of FG. So I think you are mostly among friends.

Some people even said there is no property tax in the North. How about that for trolling.

I dont follow you.. It does appear that you have an axe to grind with SF from reading your posts. Im just wondering how you can assume I have any particular political leanings.

I am merely Joe Public, angry with the way the country has been mis-managed, and angry with the current government's lies and spin.

So you haven't heard Enda Kenny's quote from 1994 re property tax then?

Banjo String · 19-04-2013 10:11am

darkhorse wrote: »

What about bins collection and visits to the Doctor and perscriptions, not to mention if you are clearing out your house or any big items to be thrown out, you may, in N.I. or U.K. bring it to the council skip, which is included in your rates payment. Where I'm living, it cost almost €400 to hire a skip.

Paddy......

It's better than that. ....

The council come to you. Won't even cost the home ownerv the diesel.

darkhorse · 19-04-2013 2:57pm

Phoebas wrote: »

... to fund recurring services.

So, would you class bin collection as recurring services? I am paying that seperately.
Would it be fair to call annual house maintainence a recurring service? I pay that without any help from government.
Would it be fair to call the cutting of the grass in the part of the estate that is belong to the council a recurring service? Myself and the other residents pay €50 per household annually to pay to have the grass cut that belongs to the council.

johnory1 · 20-04-2013 7:07pm

Phoebas wrote: »

I know.

I get the very same feeling when that nice lady in Tesco asks me to pay my groceries bill.

I think what you meant to right you paid your grocery bill to that nice woman in walmart , and then the store manager follows you to your car and insist you pay it again, oh and why not pay it again and again

DoesNotCompute · 20-04-2013 7:35pm

Le_Dieux wrote: »

So, it's okay for revenue to enact as You say above, but this dumb assenine govt. CAN'T bring in legislation to deduct govt./PS pensions???

Why are you bringing government/PS pensions into a thread about RTE & the property tax???

SamHall wrote: »

So they'll pass legislation to dip into private bank accounts/pensions and social welfare payments, you think that's okay?

The legislation is already in place. The majority of the government voted in favour of it, so it was passed into legislation. To answer your question, Yes, I, like the majority of our elected representative, think it's OK for Revenue to dip into private bank accounts, pensions, and social welfare payments. They've been collecting unpaid legally binding taxes from people for years. This is no different.

SamHall wrote: »

As savings need to be made, even your sig explains 'we're in the shìt' I presume then you're okay about the govt possibly introducing legislation to implement a 7% cut across the board with ps wages so?

7% across the board is going a bit overboard, but I do agree in principle with payroll savings in the public/civil service. Ideally, higher paid workers should take the hit. Also, PMDS should be properly implemented so that the deadweight can be shown the door. Still don't see what this has to do with a thread about RTE & the Property Tax.

DoesNotCompute · 20-04-2013 7:53pm

darkhorse wrote: »

So, would you class bin collection as recurring services? I am paying that seperately.
Would it be fair to call annual house maintainence a recurring service? I pay that without any help from government.
Would it be fair to call the cutting of the grass in the part of the estate that is belong to the council a recurring service? Myself and the other residents pay €50 per household annually to pay to have the grass cut that belongs to the council.

Do you or your Resident's Association pay for the maintenance of public parks? Do they fund local libraries? What about public green spaces in your locality, street cleaning/maintenance, street lighting, leisure amenities or local planning and development?

The property tax will contribute towards all of these.

Banjo String · 20-04-2013 8:20pm

DoesNotCompute wrote: »

The legislation is already in place. The majority of the government voted in favour of it, so it was passed into legislation. To answer your question, Yes, I, like the majority of our elected representative, think it's OK for Revenue to dip into private bank accounts, pensions, and social welfare payments. They've been collecting unpaid legally binding taxes from people for years. This is no different.

Didn't they say they'd take it from source for the hhc?

DoesNotCompute wrote: »

7% across the board is going a bit overboard, but I do agree in principle with payroll savings in the public/civil service. Ideally, higher paid workers should take the hit. Also, PMDS should be properly implemented so that the deadweight can be shown the door. Still don't see what this has to do with a thread about RTE & the Property Tax.

I agree that 7% is extreme across the board. I'm married to an ex front line public service worker. I've seen her leave for work at six am and not get home until half eight pm completely worked to the bone. However if the money isn't there, what choice do the govt have?

As far as what this has to do with the property tax thread goes, less than 300, 000 workers rehected pay cuts from the government. The govt have now said they will have to introduce legislation to cut it across the board.

Double that amount of people (four times if you count 2owners per property) rejected the hhc.

If the govt gives in to the ps, homeowners will be asking why should they be treated differently than the home owners who refused to pay the hhc/lpt?

Most people refusing to pay the lpt are saying they can't afford it.

Most ps workers rejecting the cpa are doing so for the reasons that they can't afford it either.

The divide and conquer plan the govt had is collapsing. Much like the coalition itself.

Banjo String · 20-04-2013 8:22pm

DoesNotCompute wrote: »

The property tax will contribute towards all of these.

Income tax and vat doesn't cover those things then?

Zebra3 · 20-04-2013 10:55pm

DoesNotCompute wrote: »

Do you or your Resident's Association pay for the maintenance of public parks? Do they fund local libraries? What about public green spaces in your locality, street cleaning/maintenance, street lighting, leisure amenities or local planning and development?

The property tax will contribute towards all of these.

Talk about gullible.

All the new taxes are to pay for the private banking debt.

Troika getting the traitors in Dail Eireann to see how far we'll bend over.

darkhorse · 21-04-2013 12:19am

DoesNotCompute wrote: »

Do you or your Resident's Association pay for the maintenance of public parks? Do they fund local libraries? What about public green spaces in your locality, street cleaning/maintenance, street lighting, leisure amenities or local planning and development?

The property tax will contribute towards all of these.

Well, yeah, now that you mention it, through 30+ years of taxation of income.

darkhorse · 21-04-2013 12:25am

Phoebas wrote: »

I get the very same feeling when that nice lady in Tesco asks me to pay my groceries bill.

darkhorse wrote: »

Does that nice lady demand that you pay every year for the groceries you bought 20 years ago?

What ya reckon, will ya answer this one?

Phoebas · 21-04-2013 12:31am

darkhorse wrote: »

What ya reckon, will ya answer this one?

My groceries are an ongoing need, as are my local services.

Phoebas · 21-04-2013 12:34am

darkhorse wrote: »

Would it be fair to call annual house maintainence a recurring service? I pay that without any help from government.

The government don't help you with with your house maintenance

That's a travesty :pac:

Phoebas · 21-04-2013 12:35am

SamHall wrote: »

In short.

Income tax needs to be raised. And/or a third tax band needs introduced.

Or a property tax.

Looks like the property tax idea won the day.

squod · 21-04-2013 12:36am

Phoebas wrote: »

My groceries are an ongoing need, as are my local services.

My groceries aren't full of potholes and the local Tesco doesn't have people dying on trolleys in the express queue.

Phoebas · 21-04-2013 12:37am

squod wrote: »

My groceries aren't full of potholes and the local Tesco doesn't have people dying on trolleys in the express queue.

Yeah, but they've got horse in their beefburgers, so swings and roundabouts...

darkhorse · 21-04-2013 12:43am

Phoebas wrote: »

I get the very same feeling when that nice lady in Tesco asks me to pay my groceries bill.

darkhorse wrote: »

Does that nice lady demand that you pay every year for the groceries you bought 20 years ago?

This question that I'm asking you just requires a yes or no answer. Will you answer it, please?

Phoebas · 21-04-2013 12:46am

darkhorse wrote: »

This question that I'm asking you just requires a yes or no answer. Will you answer it, please?

She's only been working there for 18 months :rolleyes:

darkhorse · 21-04-2013 12:51am

Phoebas wrote: »

The government don't help you with with your house maintenance That's a travesty :pac:

But do ya not get the point. Am I not saving the government money by having my own home and maintaining it myself?

darkhorse · 21-04-2013 12:56am

Phoebas wrote: »

She's only been working there for 18 months :rolleyes:

Thank you, and goodbye.

darkhorse · 21-04-2013 1:02am

Slick50 wrote: »

You must not have seen any of my other posts re: this. What I don't agree with is paying the government rent to live in my own home. Simples? Is that your signature?

Neither did Enda Kenny one time. See 0:18

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Xng9wqPQwmI

Hey Slick, I play this clip whenever I want a laugh.:pac::pac::pac:

Le_Dieux · 21-04-2013 10:55am

DoesNotCompute wrote: »

Why are you bringing government/PS pensions into a thread about RTE & the property tax???

Why?? Because it's seems to be fine for You to let this bunch of thugs delve into a person's bank account, but when there is uproar about reducing the td's/extd's/taoisigh pensions, thee govt. use the excuse that they can't enact legislation to be able to do these things.

What's good for the goose SHOULD be good for the gander!

Slick50 · 21-04-2013 12:55pm

darkhorse wrote: »

Neither did Enda Kenny one time. See 0:18

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Xng9wqPQwmI

Hey Slick, I play this clip whenever I want a laugh.:pac::pac::pac:

I don't know DH, it's just too close to the bone for my liking, just makes my blood boil. Apart from Brian Lenihan, r.i.p. I'd say the rest of the "characters" in that clip get a good laugh out of it too, at our expense.

I did find this funny though...

dxhound2005 wrote:

The only question I see is about what EK said in 1994. I will have to check that one out and come back to you, I haven't heard of it before.

dxhound2005 · 21-04-2013 1:41pm

mariaalice wrote: »

You do know they can take it from you salaried or social welfare payment unless that was just an idle threat.

SamHall wrote: »

They said the same about the hhc, never happened though.

They couldn't have said that because there was no provision for it in the HHC legislation. You must have misunderstood something you heard or read. However any unpaid HHC will be re-categorised as LPT from July and will be subject to the same collection procedures. Without any time limit. There was a 12 year time limit in the HHC legislation.

SamHall wrote: »

Didn't they say they'd take it from source for the hhc?

No

Banjo String · 21-04-2013 2:08pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

They couldn't have said that because there was no provision for it in the HHC legislation. You must have misunderstood something you heard or read. However any unpaid HHC will be re-categorised as LPT from July and will be subject to the same collection procedures. Without any time limit. There was a 12 year time limit in the HHC legislation.

No

Oops. My bad. Hogan possibly is one of 'they' though. Was he just merely mouthing off again?

The Government may yet seek to remove cash forcibly from people’s bank accounts and benefits if they refuse to pay the charge.

Mr Hogan said laws introduced two years ago may allow the State to seek court approval to “deduct from source” the charge.

“The Government is quite clear and I’m clear that the household charge is liable and will continue to be and remain to be collected. I’m not going to budge a bit.”

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/politics/hogan-urged-to-admit-household-levy-a-mess-187705.html

Getting back to legislations and provisions though.

What will your opinion be if the govt are forced to introduce legislation to forcibly deduct 7% from public service employee's across the board?

That's a serious pay cut to anyone's salary. Would you picket/strike against the govt if a union instructed you
to do so (if you were a ps employee? )

Laws are laws after all.

21-04-2013 2:31pm

It is a serious cut, but is necessary. 5% may be a better figure. It is off their basic rate, so after tax etc, may not be too bad. I assume by Public Service that all Politicians etc, are included.

dxhound2005 · 21-04-2013 3:03pm

SamHall wrote: »

Oops. My bad. Hogan possibly is one of 'they' though. Was he just merely mouthing off again?

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/politics/hogan-urged-to-admit-household-levy-a-mess-187705.html

Getting back to legislations and provisions though.

What will your opinion be if the govt are forced to introduce legislation to forcibly deduct 7% from public service employee's across the board?

That's a serious pay cut to anyone's salary. Would you picket/strike against the govt if a union instructed you
to do so (if you were a ps employee? )

Laws are laws after all.

That was probably journalists mixing up unpaid HHC with the provisions of the Fines Act (not yet implemented afaik) which would have allowed the collection of fines imposed by a court for non-payment of HHC to be deducted from sources such as wages.

Lots of anti HHC were going on about having their day in court and how the jails would be full but the Fines Act would mean no one had to go to jail for non payment of the fine. The actual HHC would still remain unpaid by these people but would be collected eventually plus penalties when the property changed hands, if not before. It's not unusual for journalists to get things wrong. All a bit academic now, the LPT act is a much more comprehensive piece of legislation.

I answered your other question in the Croke Park thread where it belongs.

Banjo String · 21-04-2013 3:14pm

Deleted User wrote: »

It is a serious cut, but is necessary. 5% may be a better figure. It is off their basic rate, so after tax etc, may not be too bad. I assume by Public Service that all Politicians etc, are included.

For some, 7%, even 5% may be too much to give up.

Others however, won't even notice it (thinking of County council managers in €150k here) they should be cut by 30-50% imo.

dxhound2005 · 21-04-2013 3:37pm

SamHall wrote: »

For some, 7%, even 5% may be too much to give up.

Others however, won't even notice it (thinking of County council managers in €150k here) they should be cut by 30-50% imo.

The big big money is still in the private sector. If you limit PS workers to a maximum of €100K (SF policy) how can you ever hope to attract the sort of talent that pays themselves €6 million. Or €15 million in one case. Politics and public service are not vocations and I fail to see how Prime Ministers for instance or the American President should only be paid 1% or 2% of what these people get given the comparative responsibilities.

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/topearning-irish-bosses-shared-almost-60m-in-pay-29210678.html

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/aryztas-killian-pockets-155m-29210685.html

If you think the politicians are doing a bad job would paying them a lot more be the way to attract people who could do better?

Zebra3 · 21-04-2013 3:41pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

The big big money is still in the private sector. If you limit PS workers to a maximum of €100K (SF policy) how can you ever hope to attract the sort of talent that pays themselves €6 million. Or €15 million in one case. Politics and public service are not vocations and I fail to see how Prime Ministers for instance or the American President should only be paid 1% or 2% of what these people get given the comparative responsibilities.

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/topearning-irish-bosses-shared-almost-60m-in-pay-29210678.html

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/aryztas-killian-pockets-155m-29210685.html

If you think the politicians are doing a bad job would paying them a lot more be the way to attract people who could do better?

Paying big money doesn't equate to getting better people.

We've seen that with politicans and bankers.

RTE & the property tax

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