Would you consider voting a Majority Fianna fail for the next government?

Phoebas

darkhorse wrote: »

I'm a little bit on the slow side. Would ya explain to me what is wrong with these policies.

What are DDI’s policies?



DDI intends, if elected, to do the following:

1. Call a referendum on a constitutional amendment to Bunreacht na hEireann to re-introduce provisions for direct democracy.
   More Information Please see the Frequently Asked Questions
   
   
2. Launch a full independent, international legal review of the bailout, which we hold to be an odious debt and illegal under international law.
   More Information DDI believe that under international law and the Lisbon treaty bailouts are illegal. It is illegal for a government to sell the birthright of a nation. The bailout is also unconstitutional under Bunreacht na hEireann article 6 which states:All powers of government, legislative, executive and
   judicial, derive, under God, from the people, whose right
   it is to designate the rulers of the State and, in final appeal,
   to decide all questions of national policy, according to
   the requirements of the common good.Since the bailout the Irish people have been forced into a disastrous situation financially, socially, personally, which is clearly not according to the requirements of the common good.DDI intend to legally challenge the bailout on the above points and on any other legal points discovered in the process of review.
   
   
3. Suspend all payments relating to the bailout, capital and interest, pending the results of the legal review.
4. Halt the sale of state assets. Any contracts signed or sales completed in relation to state assets since the bailout will be treated as part of the original odious debt and fully investigated.
5. Launch a legal review of the transfer of €1 billion of assets from AIB balance sheets to the private pension fund of AIB staff.
6. Launch a legal review of the use of state assets where irregularities or corruption are suspected.
   More Information Ireland is rich in natural resources. Much of these natural resources are being given away literally for nothing via contracts signed by amongst others an ex-minister subsequently convicted of fraud. DDI will launch a full, independent, transparent legal review of any and all such contracts.
   
   
7. Halt all repossessions and evictions in Ireland pending personal debt renegotiations between lending institutions and citizens.
   More Information In November 2012 Spanish banks agreed to halt evictions of those in dire circumstances for two years, due mostly to protests and eviction resistance. Spanish Economy Minister Luis de Guindos said his government aimed “to introduce measures that ensure that no family acting in good faith will end up homeless because of the crisis. That is the commitment.”Direct Democracy Ireland will similarly insist on a halt to evictions in Ireland to ensure that no Irish person acting in good faith will be made homeless, for a number of reasons.Firstly, this crisis has been caused by the banks. If the banks hadn’t destroyed the economy people would be able to pay their mortgages and wouldn’t be defaulting. The Irish people bailed the banks out with billions of euros. The banks were supposed to write down mortgages but still have not, and the banks are now making Irish people homeless. This is unacceptable, and it is very plain to see now that the banks will not compromise and that the Irish people are being appallingly treated by the banks.Secondly, it is unconstitutional. Bunreacht na hEireann article 40.5 states:The dwelling of every citizen is inviolable and shall not
   be forcibly entered save in accordance with law.Nobody, at all, is permitted to enter an Irish person’s dwelling without either the permission of the occupant or a warrant.Irish people suffered the trauma of eviction for hundreds of years and eviction is a massive psychological scar on the Irish people. That we have returned to the same situation again after supposedly gaining our independence and freedom is unacceptable.
   Furthermore, it is apparent that there has been massive fraud involved in many mortgages. DDI will work with and support any groups investigating illegality in this area and working to bring the banks to account in this matter.
   DDI do not support people getting ‘something for nothing’ or people refusing to pay their mortgages ‘to get a free house’. DDI recognise that in part this may be occurring. However, DDI further recognise that the vast majority of people in mortgage difficulties are in genuine financial difficulties and that they acted in good faith based on a booming economy, ‘expert’ advice and predatory lending practices in the banks to buy houses which are now a millstone around their necks threatening to destroy them and their families, and hence the very fabric of Irish society. This situation needs to be addressed and DDI intend, with the help of The Irish People, to address it.
   Bunreacht na hEireann article 41.1.1, literal Irish translation, states:
   The State acknowledges that the Family is the basic primary
   group-unit of/for society according to nature, and that it
   is a moral institution which has inalienable invincible rights
   which are more ancient and higher than any human statute.
   Bunreacht na hEireann doesn’t mention banks at all.
   The family is the primary unit of society and is therefore the most important aspect of Irish society. The banking sector is making Irish families homeless and causing Irish people, parents of children, to commit suicide. Therefore the banking sector and their practices regarding defaulting mortgage holders are unconstitutional and will be addressed to determine a solution which prioritises Irish people. DDI are not advocating that people do not pay their debts, but that payment arrangements must be adjusted to suit the reality in which Irish people now find themselves while releasing them from the pressures leading to depression, evictions and suicide.
   Ireland is The Irish People. The Irish People take priority over banks.
   
   
   
8. Support and assist in the development of a collaborative consultation process in communities nationwide to examine and discuss issues facing communities, regions and the state. Work with groups engaged in this process to create a nationwide mechanism of proposal generation via which the wishes of the people of Ireland will be determined and communicated directly to government to be implemented via direct democracy.
   More Information Please see Rollout of DDI. (link to Rollout section)
   
   
9. Review all sectors of local and national government via the national consultative process and Implement any and all necessary reform determined by the review process.
   More Information Government, local and national, is dysfunctional and needs to be reformed. DDI recognise this and intend to make the review and reform process a national one whereby the Irish people examine their own affairs and decide on what action is necessary to create the governance of their choosing.Bunreacht na hEireann article 6:All powers of government, legislative, executive and
   judicial, derive, under God, from the people, whose right
   it is to designate the rulers of the State and, in final appeal,
   to decide all questions of national policy, according to
   the requirements of the common good.Ireland belongs to The Irish People, whose right it is to decide how they are governed and what happens in the state. The Irish People are dissatisfied in the extreme with how they are governed at present and with most of the decisions of national policy being made in their name. These things need to be rectified, and they need to be rectified by The Irish People, together.
   
   
10. Review all sectors of the economy, local and national, via the national consultative process and implement any and all necessary reforms determined by the review process.
    More Information

1. The referendum. No wording proposed. Maybe they intend to use the original wording? As their core policy this one should really be watertight.
2. The legal review. The terms of the review aren't spelled out. Nor is the selection criteria for who will carry it out.
3. Suspending bailout repayments will have big consequences. We should have a say on this and they intend to do it before the review is complete, thus pre-empting its results.
4. Halt sales of state assets. This contradicts their core policy of direct democracy. Shouldn't we have a say on this major policy decision?
5. No problem with the review of the AIB transfer, but aren't a lot of their policies just reviews? Sounds just like what the current parties do when they don't want to do anything. Weak.
6. Yet another legal review.
7. Halt repossessions pending....... We've already had this, so nothing new here.
8. Support, assist, collaborate, assist. Not really a policy at all. Just a lot of nice words bundled up.
9. Yay. More reviews.
10. And finally, yet another review.

Anynama141

I suggest anyone interested in DDI should investigate the weird Freeman cult that Ben Gilroy is associated with. It's a strange legal cult that believes in a vast conspiracy theory about the law and governance, including such weird and wonderful fancies such as that countries are private companies and that courts are run according to Admiralty/naval law (because they use words like 'dock' and words that end with '-ship'). It's very funny but also creepy, and I'm not sure I like the idea of a politician believing that sort of horsesh!t.

From RationalWiki:

Freeman on the land, also known as FMOTL, FOTL, Footle or simply freeman,[1] is a form of pseudolegal woo in various English-speaking countries. Freemen believe they can opt out of being governed, and that what normal people understand to be "laws" are merely a form of "contract" that applies only if people consent to it.[2]
Freemen hold that we are all subject to a massive international legal conspiracy perpetrated for the profit of the elites, but you can hack the system if you just use the right form of words.[3] They believe only in their version of natural law, which they call "common law." In practical terms, they believe this means they do not have to pay taxes, debts, mortgages, etc. because we were all deceived and if you say the right form of words this fact will be accepted.
Freemen believe they can declare themselves independent of government jurisdiction using the concept of "lawful rebellion": that all statute law is contractual and therefore only applicable if an individual consents to it. They assert that what everyone else regards as "the law" doesn't apply to them as they have not consented to a contract with the state,[4] even going so far as to claim they have a lawful right to refuse arrest if they do not consent. They insist that the government is a corporation, are obsessed with maritime law, and call themselves things like "John of the family Smith." Essentially, they're hilarious and somewhat less threatening sovereign citizens.
No freeman arguments have ever succeeded in court; some have even explicitly ruled that the term "freeman on the land" has no legal significance when the argument is raised.[5] Actually using the arguments gets people into worse trouble, including fines, asset seizures, contempt convictions and criminal records. However, this doesn't stop freemen from claiming that it works.

MilanPan!c

darkhorse wrote: »

You are saying in your first sentence, that you never said that's what they were. Then in your third sentence, you seem to be saying that thats all I seem to want. Anyway, all that silly talk of neo-nazi nonsense aside, I think I may have mentioned it once or twice in one or two threads that if I ever get a chance to vote DDI, I would do so, because it sounds like the kind of change that we deserve in this country, and lets face it, they really could'nt make things any worse. Have a listen to this interview from our local station with Ben Gilroy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=LDrxmh6CB-w

Ben Gilroy is a nutter. A vote for him is a vote for Jim Corr. After all he gives away a copy of book, written by one of Corr's buddies, with every donation.

Vote for the "sovereign citizen" party at your own peril.

Chucky the tree

darkhorse wrote: »

You are saying in your first sentence, that you never said that's what they were. Then in your third sentence, you seem to be saying that thats all I seem to want. Anyway, all that silly talk of neo-nazi nonsense aside, I think I may have mentioned it once or twice in one or two threads that if I ever get a chance to vote DDI, I would do so, because it sounds like the kind of change that we deserve in this country, and lets face it, they really could'nt make things any worse. Have a listen to this interview from our local station with Ben Gilroy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=LDrxmh6CB-w

Of course they could make things worse. Having to to cut the €13m over night would have cause a huge problem in the country. From little I've seen of him in seems pretty terrible. Spouting his freeman nonsense and then attending rallies for the Quinn family.

Lingua Franca

michael999999 wrote: »

Stephen kearon who is looking to run for Fianna Fail in the next election, has just tweeted that he is thankful that Bobby Sands is now burning in the eternal fires of hell.

What a scumbag he is showing himself up as.

I didn't see that one but I saw this:
https://twitter.com/GearoidRO/status/321381952496218112/photo/1

He deleted that tweet but there's plenty of others still there on his feed as he got into a slap fight with anyone that called him out on it. Like Twink! Check it out, you'll find something to laugh at. https://twitter.com/skearon

Anynama141

Darkhorse, do you have any response to make about Ben Gilroy's involvement with the Freeman cult? I may start a thread about it in politics to raise public awareness of the issue.

darkhorse

Anynama141 wrote: »

Darkhorse, do you have any response to make about Ben Gilroy's involvement with the Freeman cult? I may start a thread about it in politics to raise public awareness of the issue.

I really don't have a clue about his involvement, if any, with any Freeman cult, and I would definitely welcome any thread that you would start to both raise public awareness and to find out more about this cult. I did say once on the subject on another thread, in answer to a poster, "if someone is not free, then the must be prisoners or slaves", (just think about that one). I will say to ya though, whatever the other posters views are on which direction they would like to see this country go, if any direction, even though I may not agree with some of them, but I do respect them. However, I do think the time for change in the politics of this country is long overdue, and I think DDI are the people to make the relevant changes.

bgrizzley

Anynama141 wrote: »

Darkhorse, do you have any response to make about Ben Gilroy's involvement with the Freeman cult? I may start a thread about it in politics to raise public awareness of the issue.

why ask Darkhorse, ask Gilroy...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=9txjGNFREQA#t=133s


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=9txjGNFREQA#t=229s

tdv123

I'm voting for Sinn Fein.

Phoebas

bgrizzley wrote: »

why ask Darkhorse, ask Gilroy...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=9txjGNFREQA#t=133s


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=9txjGNFREQA#t=229s

That Gilroy chap is a man of many faces.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTxv3kvpCjY

thestruguy

Of course.............They are the best party in Ireland

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

thestruguy wrote: »

Of course.............They are the best party in Ireland

I know I'm never going to get an asnwer to this, but.... what policies are basing that on?

(Assumign you're neither a torll nor a re reg)

Bergkamp 10

I would vote for them ahead of FG/Labour regardless. But the thought of that odious man Martin becoming Taoiseach is enough to sicken me.

If FF wont to get away from their corrupt image remove this man as leader immediately . If they have nobody better they should dissolve.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Bergkamp 10 wrote: »

I would vote for them ahead of FG/Labour regardless. But the thought of that odious man Martin becoming Taoiseach is enough to sicken me.

If FF wont to get away from their corrupt image remove this man as leader immediately . If they have nobody better they should dissolve.

Why so? What FF policies work for you?

(sorry to harp on abotu this, but people who constantly say they would vote FF seem to either do so out of habit, or just attack FG/Lab's policies - no one's put forward a good pro-FF reason yet.)

Anynama141

bgrizzley wrote: »

why ask Darkhorse, ask Gilroy...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=9txjGNFREQA#t=133s


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=9txjGNFREQA#t=229s

Wow, in the first video there he is flat-out lying! I've watched several of his videos and he uses all the Freeman horsesh!t like 'statutes' not being laws etc. etc. - bizarre that he denies it. :eek:

Also his nonsense about a distinction between 'legal' and 'lawful', 'are you on your oath', all that bullsh!t. Is he pretending he came up with all this himself?

Anynama141

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Why so? What FF policies work for you?

(sorry to harp on abotu this, but people who constantly say they would vote FF seem to either do so out of habit, or just attack FG/Lab's policies - no one's put forward a good pro-FF reason yet.)

It's hilarious - people are attacking the Coalition for carrying out FF's bailout policies, and saying they would rather vote for Fianna Failure who bankrupted us in the first place?

Srianadh

Anynama141 wrote: »

It's hilarious - people are attacking the Coalition for carrying out FF's bailout policies, and saying they would rather vote for Fianna Failure who bankrupted us in the first place?

From what I've been seeing is that a lot of people begrudgingly have come to the conclusion that these types of policies are required at present. The difference being that FF delivered them in a more progressive/fairer manner, according to the ECB/IMF and the ERSI. It's desperate that the realistic choice is trying to find the least bad of the bunch but the above seems to be the mentality of those already going back to FF in their droves. Labour are particularly effected after the children's allowance and mobility allowance debacles. FF played these moves cleverly and won a lot of support back. That's politics unfortunately.

They've also got an admiration in large sections of the LGTB community for what it's worth. Although historically they were uber catholic conservatives, the past 2 decades has seen them involved in pretty much every major development in LGTB rights. Their calling for SSM now as well as being members of ALDE is also giving hope that they may (to my shock) be turning into a more liberal party. They're still deathly afraid of abortion however and won't even talk about it which is disappointing.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Anynama141 wrote: »

It's hilarious - people are attacking the Coalition for carrying out FF's bailout policies, and saying they would rather vote for Fianna Failure who bankrupted us in the first place?

I'm working on the theory that FF advocates don't actually know what the party's polices actually are.

Srianadh wrote: »

From what I've been seeing is that a lot of people begrudgingly have come to the conclusion that these types of policies are required at present. The difference being that FF delivered them in a more progressive/fairer manner, according to the ECB/IMF and the ERSI. It's desperate that the realistic choice is trying to find the least bad of the bunch but the above seems to be the mentality of those already going back to FF in their droves. Labour are particularly effected after the children's allowance and mobility allowance debacles. FF played these moves cleverly and won a lot of support back. That's politics unfortunately.

They've also got an admiration in large sections of the LGTB community for what it's worth. Although historically they were uber catholic conservatives, the past 2 decades has seen them involved in pretty much every major development in LGTB rights. Their calling for SSM now as well as being members of ALDE is also giving hope that they may (to my shock) be turning into a more liberal party. They're still deathly afraid of abortion however and won't even talk about it which is disappointing.

I will think of FF as a liberal party when the seriously consider optional Irish in secondary school.

They also REALLY need to lose the nepotism angle, as I think Bergkamp pointe out.

Anynama141

Srianadh wrote: »

From what I've been seeing is that a lot of people begrudgingly have come to the conclusion that these types of policies are required at present. The difference being that FF delivered them in a more progressive/fairer manner, according to the ECB/IMF and the ERSI.

I must have missed this, any link?

Fianna Failure only spent a year or so hacking spending and raising taxes, they were kicked out before they had to do any more. The coalition have been at it for 2 years now?

Personally, I think FFailure should have been allowed to cobble together a government and forced to deliver the poisonous medicine themselves.

Re. the LGBT stuff - obviously they will be involved in such legislation - they've been in government for most of the last 20 years! Any delay or lag in such changes can also be laid at their door, but you omit to mention that...?

Srianadh

Anynama141 wrote: »

I must have missed this, any link?

Fianna Failure only spent a year or so hacking spending and raising taxes, they were kicked out before they had to do any more. The coalition have been at it for 2 years now?

Personally, I think FFailure should have been allowed to cobble together a government and forced to deliver the poisonous medicine themselves.

Re. the LGBT stuff - obviously they will be involved in such legislation - they've been in government for most of the last 20 years! Any delay or lag in such changes can also be laid at their door, but you omit to mention that...?

Sorry it was the Commission not the ECB (my bad) that said December's budget was regressive: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/commission-claims-elements-of-budget-2013-were-regressive-1.1347461

ESRI report showing 2012 budget as regressive compared to ones before then: http://www.esri.ie/UserFiles/publications/QEC2011Win_SA_Callan.pdf

You may have a point that they went after the easy stuff first. I prefer a 3% increase on USC to earnings over €100,000 though to the Property Tax that's for sure, regardless of if they wanted it previously or not!

As for the LGTB stuff, I could be cynical however before Reynold's nobody, and I mean nobody, would have thought FF would be brought kicking and screaming down that road. Most of the measures, particularly the taxation ones have been off their own bat. Credit where it's due. FG are still mainly against SSM and won't ask their delegates to the #ccven to support marriage equality. Shame!

And completely agree Ikky about family jobs having to go. That's a must in all parties. Have started a thread looking at the FF Ard Fheis election candidates and not overly impressed to be honest. Was genuinely looking for someone new and exciting to emerge. There may be one or two potentials in there yet but I'll reserve judgement on them to if/when they graduate to more senior politics (the younger ones looking for a seat at the top table).

Anynama141

Srianadh wrote: »

Sorry it was the Commission not the ECB (my bad) that said December's budget was regressive: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/commission-claims-elements-of-budget-2013-were-regressive-1.1347461

Some of the major measures in the Coalition’s December’s budget have had a “somewhat regressive impact”, an internal staff report by the EU Commission has stated.
However, it has accepted that some other measures may have balanced this regressive effect.

Just the press looking for a headline, it seems.

Srianadh

Anynama141 wrote: »

Just the press looking for a headline, it seems.

Maybe true but the ESRI report doesn't help their cause. I haven't seen their analysis of the 2013 budget though. Anyone have a link for that?

Dyr

Never voted Fianna Fail and never will.

As for people who say they'll never vote for them again, what were you doing voting for them in the first place?
Everyone knows what Fianna Fail are so presumably the mindset of their voters was that corruption is grand so long as I'm making the bobs out of it too.

Anynama141

Srianadh wrote: »

Maybe true but the ESRI report doesn't help their cause.

To be honest, I don't have much faith in the ESRI's power of analysis. They missed what may have been the biggest property bubble in history.

tayto lover

Bambi wrote: »

Never voted Fianna Fail and never will.

As for people who say they'll never vote for them again, what were you doing voting for them in the first place?
Everyone knows what Fianna Fail are so presumably the mindset of their voters was that corruption is grand so long as I'm making the bobs out of it too.

Corruption crosses all parties in fairness.
Lowry FG is a clear instance as well as their continued cronyism and nepotism.

FF just had more of them.

I am finding it hard to find any party worth my vote.

Nippledragon

Fcuk no. I would rather stick my sugar coated bell-end into a hive of angry hornets.

Anyone who could even consider voting for them (FF) after their previous performances needs to be forced to do the above act....every day.

Anynama141

tayto lover wrote: »

Corruption crosses all parties in fairness.
Lowry FG is a clear instance as well as their continued cronyism and nepotism.

FF just had more of them.

I am finding it hard to find any party worth my vote.

FG and Labour have a handful of corrupt TDs, Lowry is the worst of them. FFailure is riddled with corruption. It's hard to ignore that.

Bergkamp 10

I have never voted FF but if it came to it I would put them down before FG who I utterly detest. This country needs leadership on a national and international level. Kenny, Martin and Gilmore are all weak leaders, Martin is actually the best of this sorry bunch but that man has had his time in a corrupt FF government and will do nothing now.

I would say Gerry Adams is the strongest political leader of the current lot, but obviously he is hated a sizeable amount of people and the media, and will probably never become Taoiseach.

Where are the leaders in FF/FG, they need to stand up and be counted. Enda Kenny seems like a nice enough fella but Taoiseach, come on some kind of joke that he is where he is.

Anynama141

Bergkamp 10 wrote: »

I have never voted FF but if it came to it I would put them down before FG who I utterly detest.

This is the kind of smart thinking we need to avoid disastrous governments like the last 3 Fianna Failure administrations.

Bergkamp 10

This is a disastrous administration