Would you consider voting a Majority Fianna fail for the next government?

For Forks Sake

yermanoffthetv wrote: »

Phoebas and For Forks Sake, I assume you both are Fianna Fail supporters right? If not could you clarify who you do support.

For Forks Sake drop the "shills" crap, people are sick of the current gombeen system and want something different where they at least have some input as to how they are governed. The mainstream parties have shown they cannot be trusted and will lie through their teeth while ignoring the the wishes and well being of the people who elected them. DDI are not perfect by any means but theyre the first group to make a meaningful contribution to reforming the Irish political system. Anything to bring more transparency to politics and liberty to the people is welcome in my book.

Don't you dare make any assumptions on my part. I simply want to know why the leader of a party claiming to be a new way of doing politics in Ireland is supporting the Quinns, whose recklessness is being paid for by every person taking out an insurance policy in this country? Transparency, if you will.

As for the Freeman stuff, that's bolloxoligy of the highest order, some of it may sound like a way out to people who may be in desperate situations, but it has NEVER worked (on account of most all of it being make up nonsense), and can land people in even worse situations than they began with.

I am a member of no political party, and have never voted for FF, and amn't planning on starting now either.

hatrickpatrick

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Jesus, they aren't stupid enough to suggest that proposal are they?

darkhorse wrote: »

Is that something like what that new party, DDI are talking about?

What's unreasonable about demanding that false advertising is banned? You don't put up with false advertising of goods or services in the private sector, it's illegal and is something which is dealt with by the ASA. Why exactly should politicians be treated any differently? If you don't intend to follow through on a policy, then don't use it to trick people into voting for you.

Phoebas

yermanoffthetv wrote: »

Phoebas and For Forks Sake, I assume you both are Fianna Fail supporters right? If not could you clarify who you do support.

Why do you assume I am a FF supporter? And why does it matter?

yermanoffthetv wrote: »

For Forks Sake drop the "shills" crap, people are sick of the current gombeen system and want something different where they at least have some input as to how they are governed.

So, 'shills' is bad, but 'gombeen' is OK.???

yermanoffthetv wrote: »

DDI are not perfect by any means but theyre the first group to make a meaningful contribution to reforming the Irish political system. Anything to bring more transparency to politics and liberty to the people is welcome in my book.

What meaningful contribution have they made? - I can't see that they've made any real contribution yet.
And what transparency are they bringing? - they want us to be able to have a vote on all of the major issues, except the most important issue of all - the bailout loans - which they will default on without even waiting for the results of a legal review.

darkhorse

Phoebas wrote: »

If you read their website, they don't intend to give us a say at all.

What's this?

You may be wondering exactly what Direct Democracy is and how it works. Direct Democracy is a form of government that is said to be by the people, but also for the people. It is a type of government that the people will make the decisions for themselves rather than to have the decisions made by representatives. Another term used to describe Direct Democracy is pure democracy or “true” democracy.

This is the first paragraph of their mission statement. You must be looking at another website.

Phoebas

darkhorse wrote: »

What's this?

You may be wondering exactly what Direct Democracy is and how it works. Direct Democracy is a form of government that is said to be by the people, but also for the people. It is a type of government that the people will make the decisions for themselves rather than to have the decisions made by representatives. Another term used to describe Direct Democracy is pure democracy or “true” democracy.

This is the first paragraph of their mission statement. You must be looking at another website.

That link you provided is to a Wikipedia article about Direct Democracy in general, not the political party you're promoting.


Here's a few things they intend to do if elected.

Launch a full independent, international legal review of the bailout, which we hold to be an odious debt and illegal under international law.

Suspend all payments relating to the bailout, capital and interest, pending the results of the legal review.

Chucky the tree

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

What's unreasonable about demanding that false advertising is banned? You don't put up with false advertising of goods or services in the private sector, it's illegal and is something which is dealt with by the ASA. Why exactly should politicians be treated any differently? If you don't intend to follow through on a policy, then don't use it to trick people into voting for you.

Things change. If Fine Gael say they will keep income tax the same at all levels and Labour say they will put in a 5% increase on wages over €100k then should these parties no be allowed into Government together? I could find polices from every party that contradicts each other - what then? Just keep having re-elections until some gets an overall majority.

yermanoffthetv

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Don't you dare make any assumptions on my part.

You might want to drop the agressive tone. I asked who you support simply because you seem to reguard DDI with such distain dispite them only being in existance for several months. Care so tell us who you would vote for and what their solutions are?

And Phoebas calling someone a shill is a pejoritive statement and would imply they have some sort or connection or agena. I and many others are interested in the concept thats all, im an apologist for nobody. The "gombeen system" description ie one that is corrupt underhanded and clientelistic is apt in my opinion.

Offering people a chance to bring govenment decisions to a referendum by petition is contributing to political reform. Ill admit I disagree with their stance on the bailout but a) it would never pass legal review as an odious debt b) the troika would just say no anyway.

darkhorse

tayto lover wrote: »

Indeed. But jobs for the boys, cronyism and nepotism is rife in Fine Gael and Labour too it seems.

http://bigginsblog.wordpress.com/2012/09/21/the-cronyism-nepotism-continues-no-change-then-from-fianna-fail/

Jesus Irish politics sickens me. None of them are honest it seems.

Yeah, but this sits well with a lot of people, as a lot of people do not want change. You would nearly be drawn into thinking that there was a vested interest, like the hiring of family members to do constituancy work, family political dynasties etc. But at the mere mention of trying to change things, well, yer a shill.

tayto lover

darkhorse wrote: »

Yeah, but this sits well with a lot of people, as a lot of people do not want change. You would nearly be drawn into thinking that there was a vested interest, like the hiring of family members to do constituancy work, family political dynasties etc. But at the mere mention of trying to change things, well, yer a shill.

That's quite common with a lot of posters. I think it annoys them too but they are always prepared to put their party first. The party seems to be more important than clean politics for many of them. It's hypocritical but it protects the good name of the party for them.
If these posters had been out in the jungle in Guyana with Jim Jones there would have been no survivors.

Chucky the tree

darkhorse wrote: »

Yeah, but this sits well with a lot of people, as a lot of people do not want change. You would nearly be drawn into thinking that there was a vested interest, like the hiring of family members to do constituancy work, family political dynasties etc. But at the mere mention of trying to change things, well, yer a shill.

People just don't want change for the sake of change. Why would I vote for some freemason spoofer who doesn't seem to have much of a clue how to run a country or what to do when his delusional plans fall to pieces? Just so I can experience change? Hardly. Would you be happy voting for a new neo nazi party just because it was change?

michael999999

Stephen kearon who is looking to run for Fianna Fail in the next election, has just tweeted that he is thankful that Bobby Sands is now burning in the eternal fires of hell.

What a scumbag he is showing himself up as.

darkhorse

For Forks Sake wrote: »

I simply want to know why the leader of a party claiming to be a new way of doing politics in Ireland is supporting the Quinns.

Why don't you ask him? You can do this through the contact section of the DDI website, as you probably aware.

Phoebas

michael999999 wrote: »

Stephen kearon who is looking to run for Fianna Fail in the next election, has just tweeted that he is thankful that Bobby Sands is now burning in the eternal fires of hell.

What a scumbag he is showing himself up as.

He's certainly not afraid to speak his mind. That's a good thing, no? Even if you don't agree with him, you'd have to like his lack of political correctness.

darkhorse

Chucky the tree wrote: »

A party doesn't need to be in Government before they can be called useless.

It's probably a strange question, but how do you gauge the usefullness of a party that launched less than six months ago?

Phoebas

darkhorse wrote: »

It's probably a strange question, but how do you gauge the usefullness of a party that launched less than six months ago?

By their policy platform.

ninebeanrows

up from 8% before last election so would translate to a ~35% national vote on my fool proof system.

Sickening thought but i've given up on Politics already, only make you angry.

darkhorse

Phoebas wrote: »

Here's a few things they intend to do if elected.

Launch a full independent, internationallegal review of the bailout, which we hold to be an odious debt and illegalunder international law.

Suspend all payments relating to the bailout, capital and interest, pendingthe results of the legal review.
And this would be bad for democracy and Irish people, Why?

darkhorse

tayto lover wrote: »

I think it annoys them too but they are always prepared to put their party first. The party seems to be more important than clean politics for many of them.

In my opinion, plus most colleagues and friends that I have spoken to regarding above, the party whip system is really derisive to the country, and ensures that the country is least important on all fronts when it comes to voting for something to be passed in the dail.

darkhorse

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Would you be happy voting for a new neo nazi party just because it was change?

Is that what they are?

darkhorse

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Why would I vote for some freemason?

I gotta tell ya, yer watch too much Simpson's.

Chucky the tree

darkhorse wrote: »

Is that what they are?

I never that's what they were. Why not answer the question? A neo nazi party is change, and that's all you seem to want so you must be happy enough to vote for a party that holds far right views. I wouldn't be, I actually consider what kind of change I'd like when voting.

darkhorse

Phoebas wrote: »

By their policy platform.

I'm a little bit on the slow side. Would ya explain to me what is wrong with these policies.

What are DDI’s policies?

DDI intends, if elected, to do the following:

1. Call a referendum on a constitutional amendment to Bunreacht na hEireann to re-introduce provisions for direct democracy.
   More Information Please see the Frequently Asked Questions
   
   
2. Launch a full independent, international legal review of the bailout, which we hold to be an odious debt and illegal under international law.
   More Information DDI believe that under international law and the Lisbon treaty bailouts are illegal. It is illegal for a government to sell the birthright of a nation. The bailout is also unconstitutional under Bunreacht na hEireann article 6 which states:All powers of government, legislative, executive and
   judicial, derive, under God, from the people, whose right
   it is to designate the rulers of the State and, in final appeal,
   to decide all questions of national policy, according to
   the requirements of the common good.Since the bailout the Irish people have been forced into a disastrous situation financially, socially, personally, which is clearly not according to the requirements of the common good.DDI intend to legally challenge the bailout on the above points and on any other legal points discovered in the process of review.
   
   
3. Suspend all payments relating to the bailout, capital and interest, pending the results of the legal review.
4. Halt the sale of state assets. Any contracts signed or sales completed in relation to state assets since the bailout will be treated as part of the original odious debt and fully investigated.
5. Launch a legal review of the transfer of €1 billion of assets from AIB balance sheets to the private pension fund of AIB staff.
6. Launch a legal review of the use of state assets where irregularities or corruption are suspected.
   More Information Ireland is rich in natural resources. Much of these natural resources are being given away literally for nothing via contracts signed by amongst others an ex-minister subsequently convicted of fraud. DDI will launch a full, independent, transparent legal review of any and all such contracts.
   
   
7. Halt all repossessions and evictions in Ireland pending personal debt renegotiations between lending institutions and citizens.
   More Information In November 2012 Spanish banks agreed to halt evictions of those in dire circumstances for two years, due mostly to protests and eviction resistance. Spanish Economy Minister Luis de Guindos said his government aimed “to introduce measures that ensure that no family acting in good faith will end up homeless because of the crisis. That is the commitment.”Direct Democracy Ireland will similarly insist on a halt to evictions in Ireland to ensure that no Irish person acting in good faith will be made homeless, for a number of reasons.Firstly, this crisis has been caused by the banks. If the banks hadn’t destroyed the economy people would be able to pay their mortgages and wouldn’t be defaulting. The Irish people bailed the banks out with billions of euros. The banks were supposed to write down mortgages but still have not, and the banks are now making Irish people homeless. This is unacceptable, and it is very plain to see now that the banks will not compromise and that the Irish people are being appallingly treated by the banks.Secondly, it is unconstitutional. Bunreacht na hEireann article 40.5 states:The dwelling of every citizen is inviolable and shall not
   be forcibly entered save in accordance with law.Nobody, at all, is permitted to enter an Irish person’s dwelling without either the permission of the occupant or a warrant.Irish people suffered the trauma of eviction for hundreds of years and eviction is a massive psychological scar on the Irish people. That we have returned to the same situation again after supposedly gaining our independence and freedom is unacceptable.
   Furthermore, it is apparent that there has been massive fraud involved in many mortgages. DDI will work with and support any groups investigating illegality in this area and working to bring the banks to account in this matter.
   DDI do not support people getting ‘something for nothing’ or people refusing to pay their mortgages ‘to get a free house’. DDI recognise that in part this may be occurring. However, DDI further recognise that the vast majority of people in mortgage difficulties are in genuine financial difficulties and that they acted in good faith based on a booming economy, ‘expert’ advice and predatory lending practices in the banks to buy houses which are now a millstone around their necks threatening to destroy them and their families, and hence the very fabric of Irish society. This situation needs to be addressed and DDI intend, with the help of The Irish People, to address it.
   Bunreacht na hEireann article 41.1.1, literal Irish translation, states:
   The State acknowledges that the Family is the basic primary
   group-unit of/for society according to nature, and that it
   is a moral institution which has inalienable invincible rights
   which are more ancient and higher than any human statute.
   Bunreacht na hEireann doesn’t mention banks at all.
   The family is the primary unit of society and is therefore the most important aspect of Irish society. The banking sector is making Irish families homeless and causing Irish people, parents of children, to commit suicide. Therefore the banking sector and their practices regarding defaulting mortgage holders are unconstitutional and will be addressed to determine a solution which prioritises Irish people. DDI are not advocating that people do not pay their debts, but that payment arrangements must be adjusted to suit the reality in which Irish people now find themselves while releasing them from the pressures leading to depression, evictions and suicide.
   Ireland is The Irish People. The Irish People take priority over banks.
   
   
   
8. Support and assist in the development of a collaborative consultation process in communities nationwide to examine and discuss issues facing communities, regions and the state. Work with groups engaged in this process to create a nationwide mechanism of proposal generation via which the wishes of the people of Ireland will be determined and communicated directly to government to be implemented via direct democracy.
   More Information Please see Rollout of DDI. (link to Rollout section)
   
   
9. Review all sectors of local and national government via the national consultative process and Implement any and all necessary reform determined by the review process.
   More Information Government, local and national, is dysfunctional and needs to be reformed. DDI recognise this and intend to make the review and reform process a national one whereby the Irish people examine their own affairs and decide on what action is necessary to create the governance of their choosing.Bunreacht na hEireann article 6:All powers of government, legislative, executive and
   judicial, derive, under God, from the people, whose right
   it is to designate the rulers of the State and, in final appeal,
   to decide all questions of national policy, according to
   the requirements of the common good.Ireland belongs to The Irish People, whose right it is to decide how they are governed and what happens in the state. The Irish People are dissatisfied in the extreme with how they are governed at present and with most of the decisions of national policy being made in their name. These things need to be rectified, and they need to be rectified by The Irish People, together.
   
   
10. Review all sectors of the economy, local and national, via the national consultative process and implement any and all necessary reforms determined by the review process.
    More Information

darkhorse

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Things change.

At least be honest, Chucky. Promises change, is that what ya mean. Ya know, even a Minister in the government does'nt gloss over it. I think his exact words were.

“Isn’t that what you tend to do during an election?” when asked if he admitted to breaking pre-election vows.

I think I still have the video clip, if ya want it.

darkhorse

Phoebas wrote: »

And what transparency are they bringing? - they want us to be able to have a vote on all of the major issues, except the most important issue of all - the bailout loans - which they will default on without even waiting for the results of a legal review.

Can you show me where they said that?

darkhorse

darkhorse wrote: »

Launch a full independent, internationallegal review of the bailout, which we hold to be an odious debt and illegalunder international law.

Suspend all payments relating to the bailout, capital and interest, pendingthe results of the legal review.
And this would be bad for democracy and Irish people, Why?

I almost forgot. Talking about odious debt, I heard a rumour that the banks may need another €16 billion, wonder where that'll come from. Oh wait

---

Nah, hardly come back to us again.

Chucky the tree

darkhorse wrote: »

At least be honest, Chucky. Promises change, is that what ya mean. Ya know, even a Minister in the government does'nt gloss over it. I think his exact words were.

“Isn’t that what you tend to do during an election?” when asked if he admitted to breaking pre-election vows.

I think I still have the video clip, if ya want it.

Promises can stay the same. Just makes it impossible to ever form a Government.

darkhorse

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I never that's what they were. Why not answer the question? A neo nazi party is change, and that's all you seem to want so you must be happy enough to vote for a party that holds far right views. I wouldn't be, I actually consider what kind of change I'd like when voting.

You are saying in your first sentence, that you never said that's what they were. Then in your third sentence, you seem to be saying that thats all I seem to want. Anyway, all that silly talk of neo-nazi nonsense aside, I think I may have mentioned it once or twice in one or two threads that if I ever get a chance to vote DDI, I would do so, because it sounds like the kind of change that we deserve in this country, and lets face it, they really could'nt make things any worse. Have a listen to this interview from our local station with Ben Gilroy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=LDrxmh6CB-w

darkhorse

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Promises can stay the same.

Yer clutching at straws now. I suppose next you'll be telling me that morals stay the same, except when it no longer suits a party.

darkhorse

Phoebas wrote: »

By their policy platform.

Would that be why the state broadcaster would'nt have them on for the debate before the ME by-election, or maybe it was decided they just might reach too many people. I'd say the latter would be the closest.

Phoebas

darkhorse wrote: »

Launch a full independent, internationallegal review of the bailout, which we hold to be an odious debt and illegalunder international law.

Suspend all payments relating to the bailout, capital and interest, pendingthe results of the legal review.
And this would be bad for democracy and Irish people, Why?

Because they intend to default on debt repayments, even before the results of the legal review is completed.

This directly contradicts their core principle of Direct Democracy. Shouldn't they be allowing the people decide via a referendum if we want to default on our bailout debt?