SF to refund property tax

Banjo String

VinLieger wrote: »

As much as i disagree with the ridiculous 30% crap SF spout on about this is a key issue that theres far too many loopholes corporations have to avoid even paying close to the 12%

Google pay lots of tax for example.

The “Double Irish” technique involves sending profits first through one Irish company, then to a Dutch company and finally to a second Irish company headquartered in a tax haven such as Bermuda or the Cayman Islands. This technique has allowed certain corporations to dramatically reduce their overall corporate tax rates.

Google uses this labyrinthine structure to good effect: its tax on group profits is reduced to 2.4%. While the company won’t comment on the figures, it points out that it employs 2,500 in Dublin and makes a significant contribution to the Irish economy.

http://www.rte.ie/blogs/business/2013/01/31/what-do-bermuda-the-cayman-islands-and-ireland-have-in-common/

Also, why must we follow Europeans with a property tax, yet they don't follow them with the same corp tax, which the flat out refuse to do, any time is suggested by other EU countries?

the_syco

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

If you honestly believe that loading a tax on property while ignoring low corporate tax rates and resource wealth will be some kind of cure for a shortfall in the tax take you are wrong.

Hike up the low corporate tax, and most of the big American companies won't expand here, and/or will f**k off to Poland.

Crooked Jack wrote: »

The point, as Sinn Fein have consistently pointed out, is that there are plenty of other taxes and cuts that can be made that don't target already struggling families yet again.

Want to name a few of them so that we can tear them apart?

SamHall wrote: »

You are the one that attempted to compare .'like for like 'with your property tax in the north statement. As for your 'saved money' statement, this is Ireland.

If we slashed what we had to pay to the Social Welfare, I'd say we wouldn't have to tax other things so much.

Also, when comparing like to like, you can never really compare to NI, as NI get a lot of funding from here and the rest of the UK. Strip that extra funding away, and I dare say a lot of their freebies will go out the window.

In 2011/2012 Ni got £10.33bn from Westminister.

Merch

SamHall wrote: »

Google pay lots of tax for example.



http://www.rte.ie/blogs/business/2013/01/31/what-do-bermuda-the-cayman-islands-and-ireland-have-in-common/

Also, why must we follow Europeans with a property tax, yet they don't follow them with the same corp tax, which the flat out refuse to do, any time is suggested by other EU countries?

They should try introducing some form of VRT, because we do it, thats reason enough.

Lawrence1895

Brynlee Salmon Desk wrote: »

SF have come out and said they will refund property tax at some point in the future IF they get into government
http://news.eircom.net/breakingnews/21062647/?view=Standard

What a load of baloney.

Very easy to say these things when not in power and even harder to do when in power.
Where will the money come from to refund us? The Northern Bank

Every other country in europe has a property tax (open to correction) and we are coming into line.

Didn't Enda Kenny himself have some pre election promise, that 'never in his lifetime' there would be such a thing as a property tax?

If yes, breaking a promise would be baloney, imo

SamHall

SamHall wrote: »

There isn't council tax in the north.
There is domestic rates, and they do cover said services.

Would you like a link.?

Go for it, I'd like an itemized breakdown of what they cover though because I'm not accepting you word that it covers what you say it does.

squod

the_syco wrote: »

Hike up the low corporate tax, and most of the big American companies won't expand here, and/or will f**k off to Poland.

Most of the workforces in these corps are non nationals anyway. Why am I bothered?

awec

squod wrote: »

Most of the workforces in these corps are non nationals anyway. Why am I bothered?

Well, that's daft reasoning.

They bring a lot of highly paid roles to Ireland each of which is a tax payer. Being an irish national or not is irrelevant in this discussion.

Have you anything to back this up by the way?

Well I for one would welcome our new republican overlords

Banjo String

http://www.belfastcity.gov.uk/rates/money.asp

Deleted User wrote: »

Go for it, I'd like an itemized breakdown of what they cover though because I'm not accepting you word that it covers what you say it does.

Ok.

Here.

http://www.belfastcity.gov.uk/rates/money.asp

What do your rates pay for?

Your rates are made up of the district rate and the regional rate.

District rate

The district rate is fixed annually by each council and the rate will vary from council to council. Income from the district rate is used to meet the costs of providing a range of services. We provide a range of council services such as:bin collections and recycling leisure centres parks events council venues street cleaning economic indicatives building control

.Find out what other services we provide

Regional rate

The regional rate is set by Central Government. Income from the regional rate is used to meet the costs of providing services like:education health personal social services housing roads sewerage water.

SamHall

SamHall wrote: »

http://www.belfastcity.gov.uk/rates/money.asp

Ok.

Here.

http://www.belfastcity.gov.uk/rates/money.asp

It's a bit numbers-heavy.:rolleyes:

tayto lover

melekalikimaka wrote: »

you lose any weight behind an arguement when you rename the issue to pull on heart strings, its a clear sight on the outset the arguement is weak and needs padding

So family homes are exempt then?

squod

awec wrote: »

Well, that's daft reasoning.

They bring a lot of highly paid roles to Ireland each of which is a tax payer. Being an irish national or not is irrelevant in this discussion.

Have you anything to back this up by the way?

Absolute boloxology.

Banjo String

Deleted User wrote: »

It's a bit numbers-heavy.:rolleyes:

I'm sorry, what would you like, vouched receipts as to where the money goes?

You contradicted me on what rates got the payer in the north, I provided with a detailed list from Belfast City council 's own website, your very imaginative reply is that its a bit numbers heavy?


Cop on please.

dxhound2005

SamHall wrote: »

I'm sorry, what would you like, vouched receipts as to where the money goes?

You contradicted me on what rates got the payer in the north, I provided with a detailed list from Belfast City council 's own website, your very imaginative reply is that its a bit numbers heavy?


Cop on please.

You would want to be getting plenty for your money.

http://www.dfpni.gov.uk/lps/index/property_rating/rates-calculator-2012-2013.htm

I did a calculation for a house worth £100,000 around €118,000 for some of the district councils. A fair average figure would be £720 around €850.
Looking over the border I don't see much evidence of affluence beyond what I see here. But Sinn Fein happily ask people there to stump up this money just to pay for a small proportion of the cost of services. They pay loads more in other taxes which provide the central government grants to local government to cover most of the cost of services.

Another example, a house in the Newry and Mourne district worth £300,000 is £2155.50 a year and they have been paying that all along. What extra services are they getting for living in a more expensive house? None because it is a property tax based on house value and most of the services are paid for from central government grants anyway. All an equivalent house in Dundalk was paying was for bins.

If Sinn Fein were being consistent they would be trying to repeal the tax in the North as well.

SamHall

SamHall wrote: »

I'm sorry, what would you like, vouched receipts as to where the money goes?

You contradicted me on what rates got the payer in the north, I provided with a detailed list from Belfast City council 's own website, your very imaginative reply is that its a bit numbers heavy?


Cop on please.

You know perfectly well that their rates don't come close to covering the things you mentioned, even if the council likes to say they do. It's no different to how our government is saying it'll fund local services without providing numbers. One difference is that, to begin with at least, we'll be paying a fair bit less than they do.

bgrizzley

dxhound2005 wrote: »

If Sinn Fein were being consistent they would be trying to repeal the tax in the North as well.

why would they? are people complaining about it up the north??

are people complaining about it down here?
quite a lot are according to the last opinion poll, two thirds of the people in fact.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/one-third-do-not-intend-to-pay-property-tax--poll-588992.html

SF are listening to the people. FG/labour are not. (For the record i dont like SF)

dxhound2005

bgrizzley wrote: »

why would they? are people complaining about it up the north??

are people complaining about it down here?
quite a lot are according to the last opinion poll, two thirds of the people in fact.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/one-third-do-not-intend-to-pay-property-tax--poll-588992.html

SF are listening to the people. FG/labour are not. (For the record i dont like SF)

People were complaining but since Sinn Fein got into power they are all happy now.

http://www.fairratescampaign.co.uk/

Chop Chop

I couldn't give a fúck what SF have done in the past, I'd let them have a crack at it, feck it, i'd let the feckin greens or socialists have a go at this stage, I don't give a continental flying fúck so long as someone got it right and fair.

The mainstream parties are a bunch of nepotistic, lying prìcks. If it meant we try out every party that sits in the Irish parliament, then so be it.

bgrizzley

dxhound2005 wrote: »

People were complaining but since Sinn Fein got into power they are all happy now.

http://www.fairratescampaign.co.uk/

any chance of a link to show that 67% of the people in the North are unhappy with it? like the 67% of people in the South?
http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0323/378076-poll/

i doubt you will find it because at least up the north people are getting something for their money.

dxhound2005

bgrizzley wrote: »

any chance of a link to show that 67% of the people in the North are unhappy with it? like the 67% of people in the South?
http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0323/378076-poll/

i doubt you will find it because at least up the north people are getting something for their money.

What is the person in Newry with a house worth £300,000 paying £2155.50 a year getting over and above his neighbour paying £800 for a cheaper house?

tayto lover

dxhound2005 wrote: »

What is the person in Newry with a house worth £300,000 paying £2155.50 a year getting over and above his neighbour paying £800 for a cheaper house?

That has been explained for you before.

BUT don't worry it will soon be that price here and you'll still get nothing for it.

awec

squod wrote: »

Absolute bolox[COLOR="Black"]o[/COLOR]logy.

Again, anything to back this up?

Banjo String

dxhound2005 wrote: »

What is the person in Newry with a house worth £300,000 paying £2155.50 a year getting over and above his neighbour paying £800 for a cheaper house?

What does a person here, in a higher tax band property getting over and beyond his neighbour, who will pay 2-3 times less than him?

Oh, sorry that's right, neither of them will be receiving anything anyway. ......

Point being your neighbours in Newry are getting something for their rates.

Did you truly believe the above post would further your cause btw?

bgrizzley

dxhound2005 wrote: »

What is the person in Newry with a house worth £300,000 paying £2155.50 a year getting over and above his neighbour paying £800 for a cheaper house?

not sure what that has to do with SF and 67% of people disagreeing with the property tax...


... (but if your point is that property tax is inherently unfair, we are in concurrence:D)

dxhound2005

tayto lover wrote: »

That has been explained for you before.

BUT don't worry it will soon be that price here and you'll still get nothing for it.

I remember saying that it is a property tax based on the value of a house. Because that is what it is. I can't remember being told how the more valuable houses get more services. Remind me.

http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/index/information-and-services/property-and-housing/rates/your-rate-bill/what-are-rates.htm

What are rates?

Rates are a property tax based on the valuation of your home. The income from rates provides funding for services at both local (your council) and regional (NI Assembly) levels.

jobeenfitz

Sinn Fein are promising sun, moon and stars cos they are on the opposition benches. They can tell us what we wanna hear without having to follow through. It is no different to what FG/Labour did. Fianna Fail fcukd the country up and they are now pretending to be the sensible ones, and going up in the ratings. Sin Fein, Labour. Fine Gael, Fianna Fail and Independents only care about themselves, their big fat salaries and pensions. They would all like power, to be ministers and anybody who believes that any of the politicians cares about "the people" are stupid or living in airy fairy land.

Ah its great to rant, cos there aint much else we can do.

dxhound2005

SamHall wrote: »

What does a person here, in a higher tax band property getting over and beyond his neighbour, who will pay 2-3 times less than him?

Oh, sorry that's right, neither of them will be receiving anything anyway. ......

Point being your neighbours in Newry are getting something for their rates.

Did you truly believe the above post would further your cause btw?

If you examine the functions of Newry and Mourne District Council compared to Louth County Council or Strabane compared to Donegal you may find that they provide much the same services. Their funding model will be roughly similiar again now just as they were pre 1977.

tayto lover

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I remember saying that it is a property tax based on the value of a house. Because that is what it is. I can't remember being told how the more valuable houses get more services. Remind me.

http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/index/information-and-services/property-and-housing/rates/your-rate-bill/what-are-rates.htm

What are rates?

Rates are a property tax based on the valuation of your home. The income from rates provides funding for services at both local (your council) and regional (NI Assembly) levels.

You were told what services they get in the North regardless of valuation of homes.

Regardless of valuation here we will get nothing like free doctors, school transport/books, car tax, bin collection etc.

dxhound2005

tayto lover wrote: »

You were told what services they get in the North regardless of valuation of homes.

Regardless of valuation here we will get nothing like free doctors, school transport/books, car tax, bin collection etc.

What about water? And cleaning up diesel laundering pollution?

tayto lover

dxhound2005 wrote: »

What about water? And cleaning up diesel laundering pollution?

A bit below your standard DX.
Are you beginning to struggle here?