Ashes 2013 - see mod warning in post 689

spiralism

Harris MOTM. Man of the Series is Mitchell Johnson, they said it was between himself and Haddin but you could not begrudge him it at all.

"(England) never gave up, never stopped fighting"...dunno about that now Mitch! :pac:

Cook out there on the podium, must be killing him having to give that interview and be so frank.

Jonny_Darcy

Very poor showing from England in the 2nd Innings, I cant recall ever seeing an England team just give up like that before, especially in an Ashes test regardless of the series score. Distinct lack of leaders on the pitch. :mad:

kryogen

Thoroughly enjoyed this whole series, havent been able to say that about an Ashes series in a while!

dfx-

31 overs...about two and a quarter hours of cricket...slightly over a morning session. Jaysis.

djimi

kryogen wrote: »

Thoroughly enjoyed this whole series, havent been able to say that about an Ashes series in a while!

I wish I could say the same. Nothing to do with the result; I just found the whole thing became a bit tedious by about the third test, when it became apparent that England were not going to compete and the series looked painfully one sided. It was like every test played out to the same script. Awful series really.

Gillespy

The way the series stated, I thought here we go again, Australia were 5 down for nothing. Since then, it's been so one sided that the only reason I stayed up and watched two sessions most nights was it was England on the receiving end. That's the Irish in me I guess.

I liked the human side to it too, Brad Haddin coming back and playing so well. Rodgers getting his opportunity so late in his career and Johnson with his tash and averaging over 90mph taking wickets for fun.

Did I see the sprinkler being mocked by a few of the Aussies on their lap afterwards?

kryogen

djimi wrote: »

I wish I could say the same. Nothing to do with the result; I just found the whole thing became a bit tedious by about the third test, when it became apparent that England were not going to compete and the series looked painfully one sided. It was like every test played out to the same script. Awful series really.

I have endured 3 in a row of England domination, of English players and fans giving it the big one (the players are well able to dish it out when on top too!) and I will take anything I can get at the moment in terms of being able to shut them up.

I would argue that England did try to compete, they just werent able, the loss of Trott was huge imo, he holds the middle order together, gives it a solid base more often then not, this also led to changes in the batting line up, overall it was a poor display from them.

The bowlers werent much better, not much swing for Jimmy so no surprise not too many wickets for Jimmy, they would get themselves into a good position and then let Australian off the hook.

The batting collapse has been sorely missed from English teams of late, very happy to see it return with such regularity. To be bowled out in 31 overs in a Test match is impressive, considering the were doing ok for the first session!

Jonny_Darcy

Apparently it is the first time England have lost 100 wickets in a 5 test Ashes series. While the Australian bowlers bowled with great discipline and very well as a unit, Johnson aside they are not as outstanding as their stats in this series would suggest. It will be very interesting to see how they get on against South Africa

Gillespy

Ryan Harris is different class. He showed that in England too and will do very well in SA. Johnson got the headlines but Harris and Siddle got top order batsmen out and went for nothing. Like England, SA batsmen haven't faced anything like this Aussie trio. Really excited for that series to start.

Jonny_Darcy

Yes I am really looking forward to that series - will also be interesting to see how the Australian batsmen stand up to the SA attack! On Harris I think he is a good bowler but the complete capitulation of the English batsmen slightly muddies the waters on Australian bowlers performance this series which I concede may be unfair on them. It's surprising that he has so few matches and test wickets for a player his age, was he injury prone throughout his career or just a late bloomer?

kryogen

Harris is excellent, he really is, probably should have been left out of the final Test and wrapped in cotton wool. Not many better in the world right now

Rjd2

djimi wrote: »

I wish I could say the same. Nothing to do with the result; I just found the whole thing became a bit tedious by about the third test, when it became apparent that England were not going to compete and the series looked painfully one sided. It was like every test played out to the same script. Awful series really.

Yep, some awesome individual performances and of course Australia were superb but the lack of fight and complete ineptitude from England made it a dull affair from a neutral viewpoint.

The best match of both series was the first where England won despite haddin smashing it, so many twists and turns and some immense performances from both sides.

Tbh the first test between South Africa and India was more enjoyable than any of this series.

Rjd2

Jonny_Darcy wrote: »

Yes I am really looking forward to that series - will also be interesting to see how the Australian batsmen stand up to the SA attack! On Harris I think he is a good bowler but the complete capitulation of the English batsmen slightly muddies the waters on Australian bowlers performance this series which I concede may be unfair on them. It's surprising that he has so few matches and test wickets for a player his age, was he injury prone throughout his career or just a late bloomer?

harris is much more than a good bowler, has been one of the world's best for years and even in both previous Ashes losses he has been consistently Australia's best bowler. On the same level as Vern and only Steyn is better imo.

harris will gun it in South Africa, similar pitches to Australia and to be fair he has never really failed anywhere.

Shame he has not much time left as his body is not the best, can't see him making the next Ashes series.

Also such a shame they cant risk him in the ODI stuff as they need to manage his workload so carefully, fantastic in the format as well.:(


Oh and aye late bloomer.

dfx-

As much as I dislike Haddin and I do dislike him, he deserved MOTS.

The big question for the Australia attack will be the Faf wall and AB again, like in Adelaide. Hopefully Amla can recover from the India series.

Rjd2

dfx- wrote: »

As much as I dislike Haddin and I do dislike him, he deserved MOTS.

The big question for the Australia attack will be the Faf wall and AB again, like in Adelaide. Hopefully Amla can recover from the India series.

I fancies South Africa to win that series as I think their batting is superior but Kallis out is massive for me and now I think Australia can win it.

The loss of Kallis and the deadwood that is JP Duminy batting really hurts South Africa for me.

kryogen

dfx- wrote: »

As much as I dislike Haddin and I do dislike him, he deserved MOTS.

The big question for the Australia attack will be the Faf wall and AB again, like in Adelaide. Hopefully Amla can recover from the India series.

Do you dislike mouthy wicketkeepers in general or is it something else?

dom17

Jonny_Darcy wrote: »

Yes I am really looking forward to that series - will also be interesting to see how the Australian batsmen stand up to the SA attack! On Harris I think he is a good bowler but the complete capitulation of the English batsmen slightly muddies the waters on Australian bowlers performance this series which I concede may be unfair on them. It's surprising that he has so few matches and test wickets for a player his age, was he injury prone throughout his career or just a late bloomer?

Did it not occur to you that England capitulated because of the bowling

kryogen

The bowlers were on the money, very little was given away.

booth70

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/jan/07/andy-flower-england-team-director-kevin-pietersen

It's a no brainer really......KP stays.....Flower goes:)

Rjd2

Wow

Flower just presided over one of the worst sporting performances in decades and he really is in no position to be making demands for change of players.:mad:

Dozen Wicked Words

booth70 wrote: »

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/jan/07/andy-flower-england-team-director-kevin-pietersen

It's a no brainer really......KP stays.....Flower goes:)

And be left with Ashley Giles? Dear god no.

Rjd2

Dozen Wicked Words wrote: »

And be left with Ashley Giles? Dear god no.

At least Boyd Rankin would get another opportunity!:pac:


What about Gillespie or Kirsten?

Gillespy

Flower has brought them great success too. He took over a mess created by KP and he's probably sick of mollycoddling him.

kryogen

KP plays for himself, always has. He will sign a mega bucks deal with in the IPL and will not be able to commit to England so its best to step away. He is coming to the end of his international career anyway tbh and while nobody doubts his class he is not a good leader, he is not a good influence in the dressing room and at some stage England will need to find their next superstar batsman.

Rjd2

Gillespy wrote: »

Flower has brought them great success too. He took over a mess created by KP and he's probably sick of mollycoddling him.

And most recently he presided over which was an absolute farce of a series for England. Lost comfortably to South Africa and were smashed by Pakistan in the same year. Its been diminshing returns from Flower and ultimately KP has another couple of years left, Flower and his coaches should be long gone by now.

dfx-

kryogen wrote: »

The bowlers were on the money, very little was given away.

In the short periods that England batted, yes.

In 2010/2011, England were much more disciplined in leaving stuff alone until they got the bad ball. They batted the last two days in Brisbane, Cook made tons of runs that way..certainly could bat more than 30 overs.

manafana

kryogen wrote: »

KP plays for himself, always has. He will sign a mega bucks deal with in the IPL and will not be able to commit to England so its best to step away. He is coming to the end of his international career anyway tbh and while nobody doubts his class he is not a good leader, he is not a good influence in the dressing room and at some stage England will need to find their next superstar batsman.

KP is bad influence per whom, swann, anderson broad? ever see how younger members are spoken to when they would drop a chance? Never seen KP have go at someone like that.

Look at Root when he had that big partnership with KP, kp protected him took the sledging, by all accounts kp has a lot of time for newer players. He has an ego yes but that doesn't make him a bad influence. He needs proper motivating but he averages 50 change nothing.

kryogen

manafana wrote: »

KP is bad influence per whom, swann, anderson broad? ever see how younger members are spoken to when they would drop a chance? Never seen KP have go at someone like that.

Look at Root when he had that big partnership with KP, kp protected him took the sledging, by all accounts kp has a lot of time for newer players. He has an ego yes but that doesn't make him a bad influence. He needs proper motivating but he averages 50 change nothing.

Through conversation with a member of the England set up, not currently in the Test squad, but has been there. Told me KP is the most arrogant asshole he has ever come across, only interested in whats good for himself.

Again, nobody doubts his ability as a batsman.

KP isnt a bowler, he is hardly going to have as many opportunities in a game as a bowler to be pissed off with a player dropping a catch so not sure how that means a whole lot to be honest

I have seen him berate other players if that helps you

Rjd2

kryogen wrote: »

Through conversation with a member of the England set up, not currently in the Test squad, but has been there. Told me KP is the most arrogant asshole he has ever come across, only interested in whats good for himself.

Again, nobody doubts his ability as a batsman.

KP isnt a bowler, he is hardly going to have as many opportunities in a game as a bowler to be pissed off with a player dropping a catch so not sure how that means a whole lot to be honest

I have seen him berate other players if that helps you

To be fair, KP left both Notts and hampshire hated where he has spent nearly all his county career at.

I still think he has more to offer than Flower but to be fair that really is not saying much either. :pac:

booth70

KP on twitter

'I am shocked and saddened by reports in the media today concerning my future with England.I wish to repeat my strong desire to continue playing for my country, and to help us regain the Ashes in 2015.'

Andy Flower statement to the media

'Following speculation in the media today I feel it necessary to reiterate much of what I said in my recent press conference. It would be sensible and responsible to review the tour in a calm and logical manner before assessing our options for the future and planning ahead. I repeat that neither I nor the wider ECB leadership group have made any decisions as to the future involvement of any individuals in the playing group or in the support staff. The reports that I have issued an ultimatum of some description to the ECB are totally inaccurate'


Andy Flower has probably taken this team as far as he can while KP , with or without his ego , has a good few years of cricket left in him for England.