Ashes 2013 - see mod warning in post 689

baboo800

djimi wrote: »

That ball quite clearly bounced; Im not sure why Sky are making out that it was even remotely close? One replay was enough to know that its not even worth talking about.

Keep it interesting for the English watching

djimi

baboo800 wrote: »

Keep it interesting for the English watching

Theyre not fooling anyone

All you can do is laugh really. I hope these boys go on to make a big score; chance for them to stake their claim in the test side. Heads are going to roll after this series; there are going to be test places up for grabs for anyone like Stokes or Ballance who can take their chance.

riffmongous

I'd love to see the stats on how much time is wasted when england are involved in a game compared to everyone else

djimi

I think you can excuse that delay in fairness; Id be taking my time after a blow to the head like that if it was me

riffmongous

It went on pretty long I thought, and maybe its just because I've seen a lot of england cricket this year but they always seem to have a problem with something, sightscreens or movement, far more than everyone else I reckon, and remember those awful innings in the summer when they were bowling only a handful of overs per hour

byronbay2

riffmongous wrote: »

I'd love to see the stats on how much time is wasted when england are involved in a game compared to everyone else

Without doubt, the most cynical team in world cricket.

Still, gutsy stuff from Stokes and Ballance there. Impressive from Ballance on his debut, to come in under those circumstances and not be intimidated/overawed. I can still envisage the follow-on, mind you, if Australia was to get one of them in the next 20 runs. There's very little batting left after these two. Obviously, whatever happens, Australia will win the Test in crushing fashion.

kryogen

Definitely agree with the sentiment, England can be painful to watch at times with stalling and delaying games

Very cheap dismissal there from Bairstow, showing everyone, again, why he is not and will never be a Test batsman, nor a wicket keeper batsman. Could be a very good one day player for England though

kryogen

The only bright light in this English touring party Stokes leaves a straight one and off he goes, 2 in quick succession from Siddle. Stokes gone for 47, England 112-8, nearly there now.

kryogen

Rankin ensures England avoid the follow on at least

Great shot too, punched straight down the ground

dfx-

In fairness, the last five have done well to get 110, compared to the top five.

booth70

How much worse can England get?!

This series has been a mismatch of truly gigantic proportions

Borthwick can't bowl.... He can't bat either .... Hopefully he'll take some wickets with his full tosses in the second innings but what the hell is he doing in the team ahead of Monty?!!!!!:mad:

kryogen

booth70 wrote: »

How much worse can England get?!

This series has been a mismatch of truly gigantic proportions

Borthwick can't bowl.... He can't bat either .... Hopefully he'll take some wickets with his full tosses in the second innings but what the hell is he doing in the team ahead of Monty?!!!!!:mad:

Monty has failed, and failed and failed.

May as well end his Test career now and at least try something different?

Johnson has been the key man this series, followed closely by Haddin who has steadied the ship and counter attacked so well in this series

England have under performed, but this is not unusual for them down under. They were flattered a little in the English summer, the great England team is reaching (has reached I guess) the end of its cycle. Time for new players to emerge and take the team on. Stokes has been a real stand out, a bright light and Root too I would argue has done well.

Carberry could have a good mark but the last few innings have really knocked him back and he isnt the future anyway.

In short, they dont trust Monty, they have tried him over and over and it has never worked consistently. He has question marks about his temperment also and Borthwick at least has a good attitude, he didnt have a Kerrigan debut innings (terrible) by any stretch of the imagination and he was primarily facing two very good players of spin in Smith and Haddin, one of whom is in the discussion for man of the series and has got runs every Test, the other made his third century of the series in this one.

I would argue that Cook also didnt help him with his fielding, he was too offensive initially, instead of spreading the field, letting him get settled then bringing in the close catchers. Bat pad was a bit much!

He bowled his fair share of dirt but also some good balls, he took a good wicket in Johnson which took a dangerous striker of the ball out in the tail.

Overall he was alright, I dont think he is another Shane Warne or anything, but give him a chance and see how he responds to his first Test match

manafana

right few pointsw to discuss

Spinner issue - I liked monty but that was when swann was around, swann is an any pitch spinner monty just isn't , monty was useful in india and in sydney he woudl be too he can do bit but unlike swann he doesnt hold up an end when conditions dont suit. Lyon looks good now but it took the aussies long enough to commit to him.

The tail - showed some fight today after folding tamely in melbourne. Part of that is positive attiude of rankin at end with broad. Also Stokes batting that far down the man looks up to the job for england lovely strokes pity ballance didn't last longer hes good player and showed glimpses.

Root - probably dropped as he is one player assured his place at moment and england want see what gap he can fill for them.

Moist Bread

Monty's a better bowler than Borthwick, who makes Steve Smith look like Warne, but they might as well give him (Borthwick) a run in the team now. Kerrigan got an awfully raw deal in the summer, so hopefully he will get another chance after Borthwick inevitably fails.

Moist Bread

booth70 wrote: »

How much worse can England get?!

This series has been a mismatch of truly gigantic proportions

Borthwick can't bowl.... He can't bat either .... Hopefully he'll take some wickets with his full tosses in the second innings but what the hell is he doing in the team ahead of Monty?!!!!!:mad:

He pretty much bowls the same stuff as Smith, without turning it much.

Looks like the only way Rankin will take a wicket will be a strangle down the leg side.

manafana

Moist Bread wrote: »

Monty's a better bowler than Borthwick, who makes Steve Smith look like Warne, but they might as well give him (Borthwick) a run in the team now. Kerrigan got an awfully raw deal in the summer, so hopefully he will get another chance after Borthwick inevitably fails.

borthwick looked decent in domestic cricket bit nervy here, id like see him in summer playing. Monty is the past now england need to rebuild.

Moist Bread

manafana wrote: »

borthwick looked decent in domestic cricket bit nervy here, id like see him in summer playing. Monty is the past now england need to rebuild.

I've seen him a few times, he had better control than he showed first innings, but didn't look anything special. I don't think he is good enough, but I'm happy to be proved wrong.

booth70

kryogen wrote: »

Monty has failed, and failed and failed.

May as well end his Test career now and at least try something different?

Johnson has been the key man this series, followed closely by Haddin who has steadied the ship and counter attacked so well in this series

England have under performed, but this is not unusual for them down under. They were flattered a little in the English summer, the great England team is reaching (has reached I guess) the end of its cycle. Time for new players to emerge and take the team on. Stokes has been a real stand out, a bright light and Root too I would argue has done well.

Carberry could have a good mark but the last few innings have really knocked him back and he isnt the future anyway.

In short, they dont trust Monty, they have tried him over and over and it has never worked consistently. He has question marks about his temperment also and Borthwick at least has a good attitude, he didnt have a Kerrigan debut innings (terrible) by any stretch of the imagination and he was primarily facing two very good players of spin in Smith and Haddin, one of whom is in the discussion for man of the series and has got runs every Test, the other made his third century of the series in this one.

I would argue that Cook also didnt help him with his fielding, he was too offensive initially, instead of spreading the field, letting him get settled then bringing in the close catchers. Bat pad was a bit much!

He bowled his fair share of dirt but also some good balls, he took a good wicket in Johnson which took a dangerous striker of the ball out in the tail.

Overall he was alright, I dont think he is another Shane Warne or anything, but give him a chance and see how he responds to his first Test match

Pretty unfair to say Monty has failed.....he out-bowled Swann in helping England win in India only last winter....admittedly he didn't do well in NZ.....and then as usual was dropped for the home series

Under a different captain Monty would have done better......Cook has been a shambles as a captain this series and it would be probably fair to say Cook has successfully captained Monty out of a test career

My point is England should have played Monty in Sydney and if they wanted to play Borthwick as well to give him a look in it should have been at the expense of Rankin

Hopefully Cook , having selected Borthwick will give him a bowl in the second dig!!!!!

booth70

93/4......264 ahead.....reckon they have enough.....Australia should declare now and get this over with:)

One last chance though for Bailey to salvage his Test career

kryogen

booth70 wrote: »

Pretty unfair to say Monty has failed.....he out-bowled Swann in helping England win in India only last winter....admittedly he didn't do well in NZ.....and then as usual was dropped for the home series

Under a different captain Monty would have done better......Cook has been a shambles as a captain this series and it would be probably fair to say Cook has successfully captained Monty out of a test career

My point is England should have played Monty in Sydney and if they wanted to play Borthwick as well to give him a look in it should have been at the expense of Rankin

Hopefully Cook , having selected Borthwick will give him a bowl in the second dig!!!!!

He was able to spin it in India is hardly a defence of him. He could not be relied upon to be the number 1 spin option, he has never been able, its not like he is a new guy bursting in to the team. Monty has been around a long time and he has never nailed his place down beyond question. To blame it on Cook is a cop out.

Was Strauss unable to captain him properly either? He has been around the Test squad since 06, Cook has only been captain since Strauss retired. Didnt do well against NZ is a euphemism I take it? He was abysmal, his 5 wickets costing 70 runs a pop.

He has been in and out of the Test squads for so long now it seems apparent he isnt the way forward, I assume you want him to do well due to the Indian connection?

The crux of it for me is, his fielding isnt great, which Flower prizes highly his bowling is alright, but his batting is very very average, he avergaes about 5 in Test cricket and his bowling isnt good enough to cover for that.

BarryD

Wouldn't have thought this game was done & dusted by any means yet. Lead of 311 with six wickets and three days left.. if the English can get those last six wickets reasonably quickly, they'll have loads of time to grind out a win. What do you think? Mind you, on basis of form to date, it doesn't look likely..

booth70

kryogen wrote: »

He was able to spin it in India is hardly a defence of him. He could not be relied upon to be the number 1 spin option, he has never been able, its not like he is a new guy bursting in to the team. Monty has been around a long time and he has never nailed his place down beyond question. To blame it on Cook is a cop out.

Was Strauss unable to captain him properly either? He has been around the Test squad since 06, Cook has only been captain since Strauss retired. Didnt do well against NZ is a euphemism I take it? He was abysmal, his 5 wickets costing 70 runs a pop.

He has been in and out of the Test squads for so long now it seems apparent he isnt the way forward, I assume you want him to do well due to the Indian connection?

The crux of it for me is, his fielding isnt great, which Flower prizes highly his bowling is alright, but his batting is very very average, he avergaes about 5 in Test cricket and his bowling isnt good enough to cover for that.

That he has an Indian connection is purely coincidental

He is the best spinning option England have at present....I have not seen any other spinner on the county circuit who is good enough to play Test cricket

So if the jury was out on Monty they should have given him the 2 tests (after Swann's departure) to sink or swim

To not bowl him in the second innings at the MCG and then drop him for SCG is bizarre...and that boils down to poor decisions by his captain and the management.....I cannot see any rationale in Bortwick's selection in the touring party in the first place let alone play him in a test given his county stats this year

I will not be surprised if Monty starts against SL in May this year

djimi

BarryD wrote: »

Wouldn't have thought this game was done & dusted by any means yet. Lead of 311 with six wickets and three days left.. if the English can get those last six wickets reasonably quickly, they'll have loads of time to grind out a win. What do you think? Mind you, on basis of form to date, it doesn't look likely..

I wouldnt back England to bat out three sessions at the moment, let alone chase what will almost certainly be somewhere in the region of 450+ to win this game

This game could well be over inside three days if Clarke wanted it to be.

djimi

I dont really blame England for trying a few new spinning options tbh. Monty might be the best option on paper, but in reality this match is a dead rubber, so why not give someone like Borthwick a chance and see how they get on? Monty hasnt been able to secure a spot in the test side in recent years and for whatever reason its fairly obvious the selectors are not all that interested in making him a permanent fixture, so they may as well have a look at the other options available to them.

kryogen

BarryD wrote: »

Wouldn't have thought this game was done & dusted by any means yet. Lead of 311 with six wickets and three days left.. if the English can get those last six wickets reasonably quickly, they'll have loads of time to grind out a win. What do you think? Mind you, on basis of form to date, it doesn't look likely..

Pretty sure the biggest 4th innings score at the SCG is under 300 so they should be fairly safe. Another few runs tomorrow though just cause they can and to make sure of it will be the order of the day I feel.

Nothing to suggest England will be able to chase down anything significant anyway

kryogen

booth70 wrote: »

That he has an Indian connection is purely coincidental

He is the best spinning option England have at present....I have not seen any other spinner on the county circuit who is good enough to play Test cricket

So if the jury was out on Monty they should have given him the 2 tests (after Swann's departure) to sink or swim

To not bowl him in the second innings at the MCG and then drop him for SCG is bizarre...and that boils down to poor decisions by his captain and the management.....I cannot see any rationale in Bortwick's selection in the touring party in the first place let alone play him in a test given his county stats this year

I will not be surprised if Monty starts against SL in May this year

The jury is not out on Monty though, the decision has already been made and as I have previously said, he is not going to be the future anyway, they are better off trying to develop another option at this stage.

He has had many a sink or swim chance, he sinks more often then not.

I would argue that not bowling him in the second innings in the MCG shows you exactly how much the jury is out on him. They dont trust him to do the job and the other aspects of his game dont make up for it.

He might be the best current spin option on ability, but there is nothing to be won here, giving others experience and seeing how they react to Test level is of far greater benefit in the long run.

djimi

kryogen wrote: »

Nothing to suggest England will be able to chase down anything significant anyway

Every time they have had some sort of upper hand in this series they have managed to throw it away. Confidence is absolutely shot. I wouldnt back them to chase 150 to win a test right now, let alone 300+.

Dozen Wicked Words

BarryD wrote: »

Wouldn't have thought this game was done & dusted by any means yet. Lead of 311 with six wickets and three days left.. if the English can get those last six wickets reasonably quickly, they'll have loads of time to grind out a win. What do you think? Mind you, on basis of form to date, it doesn't look likely..

I'll smoke what you're smoking!

KevIRL

kryogen wrote: »

Pretty sure the biggest 4th innings score at the SCG is under 300 so they should be fairly safe. Another few runs tomorrow though just cause they can and to make sure of it will be the order of the day I feel.

Nothing to suggest England will be able to chase down anything significant anyway

Ya 280-odd I believe

Aussies should get at least 400 ahead and more than likely more

Hoping Haddin gets less than 50 though so Warner finishes top batsman for the series

djimi

Haddin deserves to top score in this series though; he has been absolutely immense. Any holes they have found themselves in he has dug them out of. Toss between himself and Johnson for man of the series, but Id give it to Haddin.