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What is it with Mickey Harte?

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12467…10

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    #92
    G Power
    Closed Accounts Posts: 559 ✭✭✭G Power


    Trigger Happy wrote: »

    Why on earth does Mickey Harte support these characters?

    because the system is setup in such a way as to give these "respected" fools a voice


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    #93
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    extra gravy wrote: »
    Who are these many people? I don't know who you hang around with but I don't know anyone who has committed a sexual offence, drunk or sober. Do you consider voluntary intoxication to be a defence to a sexual offence charge?

    The throwing out of the van was not a sexual assault, it was an assault and a serious one.
    Two people who had, according to the evidence, consumed a large amount of alcohol got into a van after meeting in a pub.
    Now, it doesn't take a genius to work out what was going on there. The situation got out of hand, he admits he crossed the line and committed a crime, and will be sentenced for that. Rightly so.
    Now, are you telling me that this situation doesn't and hasn't happened every weekend, up and down the country? It does, and that is what I mean't by 'many people'. You are just sticking your head in the sand if you say that it doesn't.
    That is not excusing the behaviour, but it is admitting that it happens, people learn, either by facing the law or by self guilt and self control. The country isn't over-run by sexual deviants. If he is a serial sexual offender, lock him up and throw away the key. Otherwise, give him a chance at redemption, many people have lived productive and law abiding lives after the same wake up call.
    April O Neill wrote: »
    It's not abandonment.

    I don't see the point in these references. Clearly, they are allowed but surely they just get in the way? I mean, shouldn't a case just be about the available evidence and testimony from the people involved? Asking people who are not directly involved seems to muddy the water.
    Because a judge needs to know the character of the person before him before he passes sentence, the police would also be asked to profile him for balance. Don't assume this is some great conspiracy to set a deviant free because he knows someone famous.


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    #94
    April O Neill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,305 ✭✭✭April O Neill


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Because a judge needs to know the character of the person before him before he passes sentence


    Why? If a person is judged to have committed an offence, they should be sentenced accordingly. And I've never understood the "He comes from a good family and is a good person" type reference. Surely that makes the crime worse? :confused: That he/she came from a stable upbringing and still committed the crime they did? No asummption of conspiracy here, whatever you mean by that.


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    #95
    Electric Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 2,106 ✭✭✭Electric Sheep


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Does he deserve to monikered 'scumbag' and a deviant all his life or at all?
    Yes.


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    #96
    Electric Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 2,106 ✭✭✭Electric Sheep


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    A sexual offence can be a stupid offence. Many people commit them when drunk, are they sexually deviant, not neccessarily.
    Many people commit public order offences while drunk, are they serial offenders or habitual crimminals....absolutely not.
    I am not trying to make light of what he did, he deserves to be punished.

    The Irish defence. Anything done while drunk is excusable.

    How about getting so drunk that you do such things is inexcusable? Oh, sorry, I forgot, it's Ireland, no personal responsibility. Ah sure god love him, it was the drink...


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    #97
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    April O Neill wrote: »
    Why? If a person is judged to have committed an offence, they should be sentenced accordingly. And I've never understood the "He comes from a good family and is a good person" type reference. Surely that makes the crime worse? :confused: That he/she came from a stable upbringing and still committed the crime they did? No asummption of conspiracy here, whatever you mean by that.

    Because it's a person, it's call mitigation. Our courts don't operate on a 'they're guilty, hang 'em high' basis. We discovered the error of that way in the past.
    To think the judge would lessen the sentence because of a reference from somebody famous or from anybody for that matter, is a conspiracy theory.


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    #98
    Halloween Jack
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,658 ✭✭✭Halloween Jack


    April O Neill wrote: »


    Why? If a person is judged to have committed an offence, they should be sentenced accordingly. And I've never understood the "He comes from a good family and is a good person" type reference. Surely that makes the crime worse? :confused: That he/she came from a stable upbringing and still committed the crime they did? No asummption of conspiracy here, whatever you mean by that.

    Spot on.


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    #99
    stanley 2
    Registered Users Posts: 130 ✭✭stanley 2


    sbsquarepants wrote: »
    Short answer is, he's an asshole.
    Yes his family suffered a terrible tragedy, but he's still a small minded, fundamentalist, interfering asshole.

    any man or woman who reads the Gospel and trys to put in to affect the world will hate


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    #100
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Electric Sheep wrote: »
    The Irish defence. Anything done while drunk is excusable.

    How about getting so drunk that you do such things is inexcusable? Oh, sorry, I forgot, it's Ireland, no personal responsibility. Ah sure god love him, it was the drink...

    Did you miss the last sentence or just do the internet moralist thingy and ignore it?
    I am not trying to make light of what he did, he deserves to be punished.


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    #101
    Electric Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 2,106 ✭✭✭Electric Sheep


    stanley 2 wrote: »
    any man or woman who reads the Gospel and trys to put in to affect the world will hate

    The Gospel says defend drunks who sexually and physically assault other people? Could you give us chapter and verse?


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    #102
    April O Neill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,305 ✭✭✭April O Neill


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Because it's a person, it's call mitigation.

    I don't consider a person coming from a stable background a mitigating circumstance, call me crazy.

    As for thinking a reference will lessen a sentence, hopefully not. If that's not the purpose of it, then why ask for them at all?


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    #103
    stanley 2
    Registered Users Posts: 130 ✭✭stanley 2


    Electric Sheep wrote: »
    The Gospel says defend drunks who sexually and physically assault other people? Could you give us chapter and verse?
    the Gospel says set prisoners free


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    #104
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users Posts: 20,937 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    stanley 2 wrote: »
    any man or woman who reads the Gospel and trys to put in to affect the world will hate
    I'm not a grammar Nazi, but your statement would make more sense with a comma or two!


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    #105
    Rasheed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,117 ✭✭✭Rasheed


    April O Neill wrote: »
    Why? If a person is judged to have committed an offence, they should be sentenced accordingly. And I've never understood the "He comes from a good family and is a good person" type reference. Surely that makes the crime worse? :confused: That he/she came from a stable upbringing and still committed the crime they did? No asummption of conspiracy here, whatever you mean by that.

    So by that logic, if you come from an unstable upbringing and commit a crime, the blame is lessened?


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    #106
    stanley 2
    Registered Users Posts: 130 ✭✭stanley 2


    Ash.J.Williams wrote: »
    I'm not a grammar Nazi, but your statement would make more sense with a comma or two!
    yes but then you would not have read it twice


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    #107
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Ash.J.Williams wrote: »
    I'm not a grammar Nazi, but your statement would make more sense with a comma or two!
    It's a haiku, or something


    any man or woman who, reads the Gospel and trys to put in;
    to affect, the world will hate


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    #108
    sfwcork
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,203 ✭✭✭sfwcork


    Another point

    When Mickey was asked for areference he surely looked at both cases

    thus he looked at a sexual assault case and a murder case and deemed that the criminals deserved a lesser sentence..surely thats the point of a reference No? Its not just because he fancies a day out and a few brews on o connell street

    Mickey is not under any legal requirement to give this reference.He has been asked to do so,studied the case and acted so


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    #109
    April O Neill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,305 ✭✭✭April O Neill


    Rasheed wrote: »
    So by that logic, if you come from an unstable upbringing and commit a crime, the blame is lessened?

    No, the sentence should be the same in any case. Though in some cases, upbringing undoubtedly is a factor in a crime. To be topical, the boys who murdered James Bolger. Their backgrounds were horrendous and could not be ignored.

    I'm simply pointing out that someone from a more stable background had every chance and still committed a horrible crime, so i don't know how pointing out their upbringing is supposed to be a good thing.


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    #110
    Electric Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 2,106 ✭✭✭Electric Sheep


    stanley 2 wrote: »
    the Gospel says set prisoners free

    Only the drunks who assault people? Or all mass murderers, child rapist, all prisoners including the ones who may choose to assault your elderly parents in their own home?


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    #111
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    April O Neill wrote: »
    I don't consider a person coming from a stable background a mitigating circumstance, call me crazy.

    I consider somebody showing guilt by pleading guilty a mitigating factor, and if that person shows remorse and the fact that they realise that they have to change, that would also be a mitigating factor. (which may or may not be what MH believes) I could also see how the help and support of a stable family could help in his rehabilitation and that would also be a mitigating factor. Call me human.
    As for thinking a reference will lessen a sentence, hopefully not. If that's not the purpose of it, then why ask for them at all?

    The judge will consider sentence when he/she gets a picture of who he'/she is sentencing. That's why a judge gets to pick the sentence, otherwise there would be no need for a 'judge'.


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    #112
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    stanley 2 wrote: »
    the Gospel says set prisoners free


    The Gospel says a lot of thing.......

    If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

    The book of Deuteronomy


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    #113
    stanley 2
    Registered Users Posts: 130 ✭✭stanley 2


    Electric Sheep wrote: »
    Only the drunks who assault people? Or all mass murderers, child rapist, all prisoners including the ones who may choose to assault your elderly parents in their own home?

    thats for you to decide using your own concisence have you tried to help any prisoner


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    #114
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users Posts: 20,937 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    stanley 2 wrote: »
    thats for you to decide using your own concisence have you tried to help any prisoner
    He's not a prisoner yet


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    #115
    Grand Moff Tarkin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 862 ✭✭✭Grand Moff Tarkin


    stanley 2 wrote: »
    the Gospel says set prisoners free
    Jewish fairy tales have no place in a modern court of law.


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    #116
    Electric Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 2,106 ✭✭✭Electric Sheep


    stanley 2 wrote: »
    thats for you to decide using your own concisence have you tried to help any prisoner

    No, I have not. I believe in just retribution from the law of the land.


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    #117
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users Posts: 20,937 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    stanley 2 wrote: »
    thats for you to decide using your own concisence have you tried to help any prisoner
    Helping a prisoner is an entirely different situation, the prisoner has been sentenced and people can help straighten them out....but sticking your oar in to influence the result of a case is not the same!


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    #118
    stanley 2
    Registered Users Posts: 130 ✭✭stanley 2


    Ash.J.Williams wrote: »
    Helping a prisoner is an entirely different situation, the prisoner has been sentenced and people can help straighten them out....but sticking your oar in to influence the result of a case is not the same!

    question are there some prisoners who should be helped and some who should not


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    #119
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    Rasheed wrote: »
    What elements? You've proof I'm sure.

    Unfortunately, I'd rather not be done for slander/libel etc.

    Let me rephrase it. The GAA community are a shining light of decency, common sense and beyond any criticism whatsoever. Anyone who suggests otherwise is a troublemaker, a fiend and possible deviant.


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    #120
    c_man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭c_man


    As someone who really admires his work in relation to football, all this recent stuff coming from him makes me uneasy and tbh he's bringing all this crap on himself.


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    #121
    Rasheed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,117 ✭✭✭Rasheed


    old hippy wrote: »
    Unfortunately, I'd rather not be done for slander/libel etc.

    Let me rephrase it. The GAA community are a shining light of decency, common sense and beyond any criticism whatsoever. Anyone who suggests otherwise is a troublemaker, a fiend and possible deviant.

    If you had proof, you wouldn't be done for slander.
    There's no doubt that elements within the GAA community are self serving.

    That was your original quote. There is 'no doubt' apparently. So show me the proof of these elements are self serving.

    I like the GAA, I'm fairly involved but am under no illusion that it's perfect. Criticise it all you want, only if its fair criticism though.


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