What is it with Mickey Harte?

Halloween Jack · 01-03-2013 4:34pm

dark crystal wrote: »

I didn't think I could be any more upset at Harte providing references for this scumbag, but this paragraph for me sums up everything I have a problem with when it comes to what Harte did.

This woman gets viciously raped and left for dead, yet the rapist still has supporters, whilst she lives in fear and shame. Fcuking disgraceful.

Yep, not only does the victim have to overcome the enormous physical and emotional trauma of the assault, they become pariahs in their own 'community' while the great and good weigh in on the side of the accused. This is of course entirely dependent on the victim and accuser's standing in the local community. Justice for all......

Halloween Jack · 01-03-2013 4:39pm

Happyman42 wrote: »

You will need to provide sources for that claim that he asked for clemency, it could simply have been an outline of the character as he knew him. Is this statement in the public domain?

In my opinion, the only reason harte would have supplied such a reference is to persuade the judge to be lenient, i have described why above. That is what i have concluded from the information available to me, i don't need any further source of any kind to express this opinion. Indeed, what other possible motive could such a statement be sought for?

dark crystal · 01-03-2013 4:42pm

Happyman42 wrote: »

You will need to provide sources for that claim that he asked for clemency, it could simply have been an outline of the character as he knew him. Is this statement in the public domain?

Whether it was asking for clemency or simply outlining his previous good character, he wrote it in support of this man. The wording is irrelevant.

sfwcork · 01-03-2013 4:45pm

wrote:

padd b1975

Its probably best to stick with what was presented in court.

what are you on about?

I was informing the lady that there is a thread with similar substance on another forum and if she has a very important point to make then it would also be another outlet

Happyman42 · 01-03-2013 4:46pm

Halloween Jack wrote: »

In my opinion, the only reason harte would have supplied such a reference is to persuade the judge to be lenient, i have described why above. That is what i have concluded from the information available to me, i don't need any further source of any kind to express this opinion. Indeed, what other possible motive could such a statement be sought for?

So you haven't seen it? A tad hysterical maybe and judgemental without all the facts?
Of the references I have written, I never once asked for leniency, that is simply not their function and a judge would rightly ignore such pleadings.

dark crystal · 01-03-2013 4:52pm

Happyman42 wrote: »

So you haven't seen it? A tad hysterical maybe and judgemental without all the facts?
Of the references I have written, I never once asked for leniency, that is simply not their function and a judge would rightly ignore such pleadings.

So, in your experience, why are references submitted to the court? What function do they serve?

Do you think they help or hinder the defendant's case?

Happyman42 · 01-03-2013 5:05pm

dark crystal wrote: »

So, in your experience, why are references submitted to the court? What function do they serve?

Do you think they help or hinder the defendant's case?

The judge is being presented with evidence and inferences by the defence and the prosecution, by tendering for references he/she is looking to build a picture of the offender as they actually are in ordinary everyday life.
Mickey Harte may not have even given a good picture of this person, we don't know because the statement is not in the public domain nor should it be to allow the person to write frankly.

I honestly think too that the RCC do themselves no favours by linking Harte and the GAA together in this too. I am sure Harte is a member of many organisations, like us all, are they too implicated by Hartes actions?

Halloween Jack · 01-03-2013 5:21pm

Happyman42 wrote: »

The judge is being presented with evidence and inferences by the defence and the prosecution, by tendering for references he/she is looking to build a picture of the offender as they actually are in ordinary everyday life.
Mickey Harte may not have even given a good picture of this person, we don't know because the statement is not in the public domain nor should it be to allow the person to write frankly.

I honestly think too that the RCC do themselves no favours by linking Harte and the GAA together in this too. I am sure Harte is a member of many organisations, like us all, are they too implicated by Hartes actions?

Who solicits the references? The judge or the defence?

tigger123 · 01-03-2013 5:31pm

Happyman42 wrote: »

The judge is being presented with evidence and inferences by the defence and the prosecution, by tendering for references he/she is looking to build a picture of the offender as they actually are in ordinary everyday life.
Mickey Harte may not have even given a good picture of this person, we don't know because the statement is not in the public domain nor should it be to allow the person to write frankly.

I honestly think too that the RCC do themselves no favours by linking Harte and the GAA together in this too. I am sure Harte is a member of many organisations, like us all, are they too implicated by Hartes actions?

Blaming the RCC for dragging the GAA into it?! You're unbelievable.

padd b1975 · 01-03-2013 5:34pm

Halloween Jack wrote: »

So why didn't you reply to those posts? Why bother quoting a Rape Crisis Center statement out of context? It wasn't the Rape Crisis Center that carried on the way you describe was it? What problem do you have with the RCC?

I have replied to posts on this thread.

The RCC woman posted a statement that the case was mishandled by the judge without anything to back it up.
I simply asked her to elaborate on this.

Menas · 01-03-2013 5:42pm

padd b1975 wrote: »

I have replied to posts on this thread.

The RCC woman posted a statement that the case was mishandled by the judge without anything to back it up.
I simply asked her to elaborate on this.

You also asked her the below nonsense question.

padd b1975 wrote:

What has the speed at which the court services operate got to do with Mickey harte?

Happyman42 · 01-03-2013 5:46pm

Halloween Jack wrote: »

Who solicits the references? The judge or the defence?

Anybody can submit a reference, the court is open to recieving them and can accept or reject them and will hear actual witnesses to a person character. I don't know what the proceedure in NI is.

Happyman42 · 01-03-2013 5:47pm

tigger123 wrote: »

Blaming the RCC for dragging the GAA into it?! You're unbelievable.

What has the GAA got to do with it and why 'demand' an apology of them?

Menas · 01-03-2013 5:47pm

Victim's children's reaction to Harte's involvement below.

http://www.herald.ie/news/sex-attacker-supported-by-harte-is-jailed-29103036.html

Dionysius2 · 01-03-2013 6:03pm

tin79 wrote: »

The second quote tells you why.

Because in crazy GAA, Catholic, banjo country this makes it all OK.

Best quote I've seen in quite awhile. There is a logic known only to the participants that defies transparency. But then again : " those who dance are thought to be mad by those who cannot hear the music"

Trigger13222 · 01-03-2013 6:08pm

Happyman42 wrote: »

I know a girl, who knows the great uncle twice removed of another girls cousin who swallowed a lizards egg on holidays and never went to the doctors and the lizard grew inside her and ate her from the inside out over 4 and half weeks. That may or may not be an urban myth, I'm not sure, but please accept it as fact, because this is the interweb.

* I'm not sure if it was beyond a joke for the lizard or the girl though. But it was for one of them.

You forgot the most important part of this story it was the GAA fault.

Trigger13222 · 01-03-2013 6:20pm

Mickey Hartes actions in providing this character witness are questionable at the least, but jut because he is a gaa manager does not tie the gaa into this.Its like saying all people competing in the paralympics are capable of murder because Oscar Pistorius was.

Zebra3 · 01-03-2013 6:20pm

Happyman42 wrote: »

One misdeameamour does not a scumbag make.

True, but we are not dealing with a simple misdemeanor in this situation or is that how you view sexual assault?

dark crystal · 01-03-2013 6:37pm

Happyman42 wrote: »

What has the GAA got to do with it and why 'demand' an apology of them?

Perhaps an apology is the wrong word, but they should most definitely condemn the action Harte took when supporting this man. I wouldn't want a prominent representative of my organisation seen to be supporting such a person. It brings the organisation into disrepute - kids idolise this guy! What message is this sending them? Ah sure, rape a disabled woman, assault her, humiliate her, leave her like a wounded animal to die at the side of the road; as long as you go to mass every Sunday and you come to every match you can't be that bad a person. Sure, I'll even put in a good word for you.

This sort of insular, small-minded, mysogonistic, inbred nepotism should not be tolerated within any modern day organisation. Ever.

The GAA were quick enough to disassociate themselves from Harte's actions during the Quinn Rally, surely this is even more serious and damaging a matter than that?

Happyman42 · 01-03-2013 6:42pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

True, but we are not dealing with a simple misdemeanor in this situation or is that how you view sexual assault?

Would you do me a favour, and yourself, and read what I said. I stated over and over again that if he committed this crime then he deserved punishment.

Happyman42 · 01-03-2013 6:46pm

dark crystal wrote: »

Perhaps an apology is the wrong word, but they should most definitely condemn the action Harte took when supporting this man. I wouldn't want a prominent representative of my organisation seen to be supporting such a person. It brings the organisation into disrepute - kids idolise this guy! What message is this sending them? Ah sure, rape a disabled woman, assault her, humiliate her, leave her like a wounded animal to die at the side of the road; as long as you go to mass every Sunday and you come to every match you can't be that bad a person. Sure, I'll even put in a good word for you.

This sort of insular, small-minded, mysogonistic, inbred nepotism should not be tolerated within any modern day organisation. Ever.

The GAA were quick enough to disassociate themselves from Harte's actions during the Quinn Rally, surely this is even more serious and damaging a matter than that?

Prehaps the GAA like all sane and non hysterical people wuld prefer not to judge without sight of the reference.
Do you really believe that this describes Harte or members of the GAA? Seriously?

Ah sure, rape a disabled woman, assault her, humiliate her, leave her like a wounded animal to die at the side of the road; as long as you go to mass every Sunday and you come to every match you can't be that bad a person. Sure, I'll even put in a good word for you.

Ash.J.Williams · 01-03-2013 6:51pm

dark crystal wrote: »

Perhaps an apology is the wrong word, but they should most definitely condemn the action Harte took when supporting this man. I wouldn't want a prominent representative of my organisation seen to be supporting such a person. It brings the organisation into disrepute - kids idolise this guy! What message is this sending them? Ah sure, rape a disabled woman, assault her, humiliate her, leave her like a wounded animal to die at the side of the road; as long as you go to mass every Sunday and you come to every match you can't be that bad a person. Sure, I'll even put in a good word for you.

This sort of insular, small-minded, mysogonistic, inbred nepotism should not be tolerated within any modern day organisation. Ever.

The GAA were quick enough to disassociate themselves from Harte's actions during the Quinn Rally, surely this is even more serious and damaging a matter than that?

the gaa is a sporting organisation, individuals actions are none of their concern. As long as the individual is not doing it in their name or using their name..Now it could be argued that he got his name from the GAA....but then again he also a well known church man...

dark crystal · 01-03-2013 7:11pm

Happyman42 wrote: »

Prehaps the GAA like all sane and non hysterical people wuld prefer not to judge without sight of the reference.
Do you really believe that this describes Harte or members of the GAA? Seriously?

I notice that in order to discredit someone's opinion you like to use the word hysterical. Nobody has been hysterical on this matter, so let's stop using that word.
Again, the actual words he wrote are meaningless to the discussion as let's all assume none of us know the contents, but as we all do know very well, no defence team would use a reference that depicted their client in a negative way, so let's stop this pedantry about the literature contained in the reference. We all know it painted the defendant in a good light, otherwise they wouldn't have presented it to the judge. As a writer of references yourself you know the score there.

And yes, I seriously believe this describes Harte. He wrote a reference for a man who raped a disabled woman, assaulted her, humiliated her and left her on the side of the road to die, because he knew the man and his family. He didn't support the victim, he supported the scumbag who committed the crime instead.

It's an insidious sort of cronyism and nepotism we've seen from 'pillars of the community' for many years in this country and it's depressing to see it still alive and well in 2013. If the GAA can disassociate themselves from Harte's actions during the Quinn rally, they most certainly come out and do the same on this occasion, imo.

dark crystal · 01-03-2013 7:24pm

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

the gaa is a sporting organisation, individuals actions are none of their concern. As long as the individual is not doing it in their name or using their name..Now it could be argued that he got his name from the GAA....but then again he also a well known church man...

Oh don't even get me started on that organisation!!

Zebra3 · 01-03-2013 7:25pm

Happyman42 wrote: »

Would you do me a favour, and yourself, and read what I said. I stated over and over again that if he committed this crime then he deserved punishment.

I quoted exactly what you said, so what's the problem? :rolleyes:

lazygal · 01-03-2013 8:04pm

Happyman42 wrote: »

Would you do me a favour, and yourself, and read what I said. I stated over and over again that if he committed this crime then he deserved punishment.

He's a convicted sex offender, there's no 'if' about it.

I don't understand how any judge wastes his or her time with 'character' references. Does that mean because you're 'of good character' when you're not raping a disable woman you deserve less jail time?

Happyman42 · 01-03-2013 8:18pm

dark crystal wrote: »

I notice that in order to discredit someone's opinion you like to use the word hysterical. Nobody has been hysterical on this matter, so let's stop using that word.
Again, the actual words he wrote are meaningless to the discussion as let's all assume none of us know the contents, but as we all do know very well, no defence team would use a reference that depicted their client in a negative way, so let's stop this pedantry about the literature contained in the reference. We all know it painted the defendant in a good light, otherwise they wouldn't have presented it to the judge. As a writer of references yourself you know the score there.

And yes, I seriously believe this describes Harte. He wrote a reference for a man who raped a disabled woman, assaulted her, humiliated her and left her on the side of the road to die, because he knew the man and his family. He didn't support the victim, he supported the scumbag who committed the crime instead.

It's an insidious sort of cronyism and nepotism we've seen from 'pillars of the community' for many years in this country and it's depressing to see it still alive and well in 2013. If the GAA can disassociate themselves from Harte's actions during the Quinn rally, they most certainly come out and do the same on this occasion, imo.

They could disassociate from him during the QUinn rally, because they KNOW what he did.
Until you see the contents of the statement you cannot comment and neither can they.
Attempting to make blanket comments like you are doing is ridiculous and hysterical.

Zebra3 wrote: »

I quoted exactly what you said, so what's the problem? :rolleyes:

Funny you didn't take my statements about what should happen him if guilty in isolation.

jaja321 · 01-03-2013 8:24pm

Happyman42 wrote: »

They could disaasociate from him during the QUinn rally, because they KNOW hat he did.
Until you see the contents of the statement you cannot comment and neither can they.
Attempting to make blanket comments like you are doing is ridiculous and hysterical.

Funny you didn't take my statements about what should happen him if guilty in isolation.

How the bloody hell is it hysterical?! It's fairly safe to say that a character witness for a defendant is intended to paint the defendant in a good light. Otherwise what the hell use would it be.

dark crystal · 01-03-2013 8:26pm

Happyman42 wrote: »

They could disaasociate from him during the QUinn rally, because they KNOW hat he did.
Until you see the contents of the statement you cannot comment and neither can they.
Attempting to make blanket comments like you are doing is ridiculous and hysterical.

This is a lost cause now. I've explained repeatedly that whatever was in the reference, it painted the guy in a good light, otherwise it wouldn't have been used by the defence. That's what character references are for and you know it well.

They KNOW he provided a reference for this rapist, so stop being so obtuse and calling people hysterical for pointing out the obvious.

Henlars67 · 01-03-2013 8:29pm

Einhard wrote: »

I think it's a bit naive of people to claim that Harte "was just writing a character reference." I've no doubt that he knew that it would be used by the defence to mitigate the sentence handed down to the defendent. I mean, he's not an idiot. So he knowingly provided his support to an effort to reduce the sentence for a man who committed a serious sexual assault on a woman. That tells me a lot about Harte's own character, and indeed, about the manner in which sexual assault is viewed in certain parts of this country.

Don't think that that is a fair comment.

A much more accurate observation would be "the manner is which sexual assault is viewed by the catholic church and by extension its more devout followers"

What is it with Mickey Harte?

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