What is it with Mickey Harte?

Happyman42

I inferred nothing of the sort. I haven't the foggiest how he views the murderers of his daughter. Funny how you like to accuse others of jumping to conclusions, then do the very same thing yourself.

Here is what you typed...what inference would you like me to draw from it?

dark crystal wrote: »

What an idiot. His own daughter not long buried and he's providing references defending the criminal actions of a scumbag towards someone else's daughter.

Unbelievable. He should be ashamed of himself.

I also don't know if he has made any approaches to the victims families. I said being a good christian man, I hoped he had. I somehow doubt it, though.

You just can't help yourself. :rolleyes:

Also, don't patronise me by inferring where or how I form my opinions. I don't read the Independent, however, I doubt they are making the story up.

Walks like a duck, smells like a duck, sounds like a......

seamus

bucketybuck wrote: »

Its already been mentioned but providing a reference when asked for a man he has known all his life in no way means that he actually condones or agrees with what the man did.

Let's put it this way - They don't ask for character references that are going to make the guilty party look bad.

If I had heard that someone I knew had acted like a complete scumbag before then sexually assaulting a woman and dumping her out on the street, then I would decline to give them any kind of character reference, regardless of how much I had previously liked them.

Your first post thrice relates to the GAA commnunity which implies that your accusation of said behaviour is commonplace in, and exclusive to, the GAA

Then you read it wrong. The GAA isn't a community. It's an organisation.

Happyman42

seamus wrote: »

Let's put it this way - They don't ask for character references that are going to make the guilty party look bad.

If I had heard that someone I knew had acted like a complete scumbag before then sexually assaulting a woman and dumping her out on the street, then I would decline to give them any kind of character reference, regardless of how much I had previously liked them.

Then you read it wrong. The GAA isn't a community. It's an organisation.

That's your perogative, but not everybody easily abandons close family or close friends, thankfully.

seamus

Happyman42 wrote: »

That's your perogative, but not everybody easily abandons close family or close friends, thankfully.

Indeed, unfortunately this refusal to let people fall on their own sword is the reason that so many scumbags get away with what they do.

Remember the community shaking the hands of the convicted rapist? Yeah, that's the kind of thing that your refusal to "abandon" your friends does.

Call a scumbag a scumbag. If they are or were your friend, that doesn't make them less of a scumbag. Scumbags can only operate because their family and friends refuse to abandon them.

dark crystal

Happyman42 wrote: »

Here is what you typed...what inference would you like me to draw from it?

Any old made-up inference you wish by the looks of it.

You just can't help yourself. :rolleyes:

Is there a relevant point here, or were you just after an excuse to use that wonderful smiley?

Walks like a duck, smells like a duck, sounds like a......

Quack indeed:

In any references I have given, that is what I ask myself, is this something that will re-occur, is this behaviour just the wildness and stupidity of youth.
In my reference I would mention that, in my opinion this is an otherwie good person from a good family and that it is 'my belief' that they will not re-offend. I have never looked to undermine the seriousness of an offence or sought leinency, but it is standard that a judge would look for this stuff before he/she too makes up his/her mind regarding sentencing.
It's quite possible that this is what happened here, both had been drinking (heavily it would seem)in a pub, there is no mention that she was forced into the car and a situation seems to have gotten out of hand. You can see similar happening in any town or city every weekend, if you look.
Yes, it was a sexual assault, was it committed by a sexual deviant or pervert, I doubt it very much

I can understand rather more clearly where your opinion comes from now.

awec

The article is laughable. It reads like the defence is basically asking the judge to go easy on him cause he's known by the GAA. :pac:

"This man likes the GAA, which proves that he is a decent individual. Sure even Mickey Harte likes him, Mr GAA himself. How could you possibly hand down a strong sentence to a good GAA man? Forget the fact that he admitted to sexually assaulting a woman including leaving her half naked by the side of the road, just remember that he loves the GAA and the GAA loves him!"

Happyman42

seamus wrote: »

Indeed, unfortunately this refusal to let people fall on their own sword is the reason that so many scumbags get away with what they do.

No it's not. This guy has been before the courts, hasn't gotten away with anything and will be sentenced.

Remember the community shaking the hands of the convicted rapist? Yeah, that's the kind of thing that your refusal to "abandon" your friends does.

No idea what you are talking about here.

Call a scumbag a scumbag. If they are or were your friend, that doesn't make them less of a scumbag. Scumbags can only operate because their family and friends refuse to abandon them.

Quite wrong, (might be right in the JoeDuffyRantSphere), the support of family and friends helps greatly in stopping people going off the tracks completely. Our jails would be much much bigger and overcrowded if that didn't happen. Look around you, the evidence is all around you. One misdeameamour does not a scumbag make.

awec

Happyman42 wrote: »

No it's not. This guy has been before the courts, hasn't gotten away with anything and will be sentenced.


No idea what you are talking about here.



Quite wrong, (might be right in the JoeDuffyRantSphere), the support of family and friends helps greatly in stopping people going off the tracks completely. Our jails would be much much bigger and overcrowded if that didn't happen. Look around you, the evidence is all around you. One misdeameamour does not a scumbag make.

I would argue that dumping a woman half naked from a van at the side of the road after sexually assaulting her DOES a scumbag make.

How anyone could argue otherwise is beyond me.

Imagine that was a member of your family left lying there.

seamus

Happyman42 wrote: »

No idea what you are talking about here.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/1217/1224260840003.html
Do a search on boards for it, there was a big discussion. Basic thrust is that the community supported him because he was from a fine family and she was just a hussey who was asking for it.

the support of family and friends helps greatly in stopping people going off the tracks completely.
...
One misdeameamour does not a scumbag make.

Yeah, he really sounds like a nice guy who just went a bit wrong (that's sarcasm by the way)

Ronan McCusker (27), from Ballygillen Road in Cookstown, Co Tyrone, pleaded guilty to sexually assaulting the 47-year-old woman after he had met her in a bar. He also pleaded guilty to taking his father's van without his authority, driving while disqualified and driving without insurance.

Car theft, driving while disqualified (which means he had previous driving convictions), driving without insurance, presumably driving while drunk, and sexual assault.

Just a poor guy gone a little bit off the rails. Eh no, just a scumbag.

extra gravy

Happyman42 wrote: »

Having given a few references in my time I can guess why, but it would only be a guess.

Many people commit stupid offences in their youth, have done stupid things that have gone unreported but if they had been reported could have caused them great trouble.
I have seen this, I have been that stupid in my time too. But I have also seen many many many people successfully grow out of their wild years and become regular, responsible law abiding citizens.
In any references I have given, that is what I ask myself, is this something that will re-occur, is this behaviour just the wildness and stupidity of youth.
In my reference I would mention that, in my opinion this is an otherwie good person from a good family and that it is 'my belief' that they will not re-offend. I have never looked to undermine the seriousness of an offence or sought leinency, but it is standard that a judge would look for this stuff before he/she too makes up his/her mind regarding sentencing.
It's quite possible that this is what happened here, both had been drinking (heavily it would seem)in a pub, there is no mention that she was forced into the car and a situation seems to have gotten out of hand. You can see similar happening in any town or city every weekend, if you look.
Yes, it was a sexual assault, was it committed by a sexual deviant or pervert, I doubt it very much.
Again, I don't have the details of the case or if this person has a previous record of sexual assault. Just my opinion.

A sexual assault is a "stupid" offence? A stupid offence would be urinating up against a wall or stealing a traffic cone. A sexual assault is a disgusting and vile crime and cannot be dismissed lightly just because the offender happened to be young and inebriated.

old hippy

There's no doubt that elements within the GAA community are self serving. It's a parochial thing, isn't it? I'm pretty sure the majority aren't all bad.

sfwcork

I wonder if the shoe was on the other Foot and the convicted criminal got a lesser sentence for murdering one of his players how vocal would mickey be?

sbsquarepants

What is it with Mickey Harte?

Short answer is, he's an asshole.
Yes his family suffered a terrible tragedy, but he's still a small minded, fundamentalist, interfering asshole.

Happyman42

awec wrote: »

I would argue that dumping a woman half naked from a van at the side of the road after sexually assaulting her DOES a scumbag make.

How anyone could argue otherwise is beyond me.

Imagine that was a member of your family left lying there.

Absolutely, and he should be punished for it. That wasn't what I was 'arguing'. And I am sure (but only guessing) that MH doesn't think he shouldn't be punished for it either, as indeed he himself does, he pleaded guilty after all.
Does he deserve to monikered 'scumbag' and a deviant all his life or at all? That is where local knowledge and knowledge of him and his environment and previous behaviour, comes in and it is why judges ask for characther references, because they wouldn't know that. The police would be asked for the same. Makes you just a little more human than the 'hang em' 'shoot em' brigade.

KwackerJack

If I became a priest and played GAA could I take over Ireland

sfwcork

what I dont get is some people's mentality is that the sinner or criminal who commited the crime should get an easer life because he wasnt always an asshole

The criminal should be judged on the crime or the events that took place.Not what he did 5 months ago.

Mickey has stood up for rapists and murderers and In my opinion he might well be a great GAA manager but as a character he must be flawed.

The bottom line is that just because its out of character doesnt mean h shouldnt have a lesser sentence.He should be made learn from his mistakes in the same way as others

Menas

sfwcork wrote: »

what I dont get is some people's mentality is that the sinner or criminal who commited the crime should get an easer life because he wasnt always an asshole

The criminal should be judged on the crime or the events that took place.Not what he did 5 months ago.

Mickey has stood up for rapists and murderers and In my opinion he might well be a great GAA manager but as a character he must be flawed.

The bottom line is that just because its out of character doesnt mean h shouldnt have a lesser sentence.He should be made learn from his mistakes in the same way as others

And just because someone happens to know someone famous who is willing to give them a character reference should not mean they get a lesser sentence.

KwackerJack

Judges in this country are to soft...living in a bubble away from the rest of society!!


Out of character my hole, I think I will rob my local post office and sure every knows I'm not an armed robber so ill just say it was out of character :rolleyes:

Grand Moff Tarkin

Trigger Happy wrote: »

First we had his turning up and supporting the Quinn family at a rally last year.

And now we see he has provided a character reference for a man who has pleaded guilty to sexual assault, stealing his dads van, driving while disqualified and without insurance. The defendant Ronan McCluster had met the victim in a bar and took her back to his van where he sexually assaulted her. He then kicked her out of the van half naked and drove off.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/tyrone-boss-harte-gives-reference-for-sex-attacker-29078997.html

Why on earth does Mickey Harte support these characters?

McCluster and family must be hoping that Saint Michael of the Harte as a character reference will help in escaping justice for a very nasty sexual assault on this young lady. I just hope this plan fails and the creep ends up behind bars.

Happyman42

extra gravy wrote: »

A sexual assault is a "stupid" offence? A stupid offence would be urinating up against a wall or stealing a traffic cone. A sexual assault is a disgusting and vile crime and cannot be dismissed lightly just because the offender happened to be young and inebriated.

A sexual offence can be a stupid offence. Many people commit them when drunk, are they sexually deviant, not neccessarily.
Many people commit public order offences while drunk, are they serial offenders or habitual crimminals....absolutely not.
I am not trying to make light of what he did, he deserves to be punished.

Ash.J.Williams

Happyman42 wrote: »

A sexual offence can be a stupid offence. Many people commit them when drunk, are they sexually deviant, not neccessarily.
Many people commit public order offences while drunk, are they serial offenders or habitual crimminals....absolutely not.
I am not trying to make light of what he did, he deserves to be punished.

in fairness they probably are?

Halloween Jack

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

in fairness they probably are?

They most certainly are. Sexual assault is by definition deviant behaviour. The perpetrator of such a crime is inherently a deviant. The idea that the abuse of alcohol absolves responsibility of an act like this in any way is abhorrent and immoral.

Ash.J.Williams

Halloween Jack wrote: »

They most certainly are. Sexual assault is by definition deviant behaviour. The perpetrator of such a crime is inherently a deviant. The idea that the abuse of alcohol absolves responsibility of an act like this in any way is abhorrent and immoral.

ah sure he's a grand fella but jaysus he had some drink taaaaken!

M cebee

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Short answer is, he's an asshole.
Yes his family suffered a terrible tragedy, but he's still a small minded, fundamentalist, interfering asshole.

i bet ya you wouldn't say that to his face
you'd prob get your butt kicked

Jester252

What is with you.
He's allowed to hold view like you.

extra gravy

Happyman42 wrote: »

A sexual offence can be a stupid offence. Many people commit them when drunk, are they sexually deviant, not neccessarily.
Many people commit public order offences while drunk, are they serial offenders or habitual crimminals....absolutely not.
I am not trying to make light of what he did, he deserves to be punished.

Who are these many people? I don't know who you hang around with but I don't know anyone who has committed a sexual offence, drunk or sober. Do you consider voluntary intoxication to be a defence to a sexual offence charge?

lazygal

There's something a bit megalomaniacal about a man who names two children after himself, Michael and Michael. Bit off I think.


And character references should form no part of the justice process, its ludicrous. Remember Kathleen Lynch providing one for a rapist of two sisters? And a priest in that Listowel rape case and the locals lining up to support a convicted rapist? Ireland is full of oddballs who think sexual offences are just a grand lad getting carried away.

April O Neill

Happyman42 wrote: »

That's your perogative, but not everybody easily abandons close family or close friends, thankfully.

It's not abandonment.

I don't see the point in these references. Clearly, they are allowed but surely they just get in the way? I mean, shouldn't a case just be about the available evidence and testimony from the people involved? Asking people who are not directly involved seems to muddy the water.

April O Neill

sfwcork wrote: »

what I dont get is some people's mentality is that the sinner or criminal who commited the crime should get an easer life because he wasnt always an asshole

The criminal should be judged on the crime or the events that took place.Not what he did 5 months ago.

Mickey has stood up for rapists and murderers and In my opinion he might well be a great GAA manager but as a character he must be flawed.

The bottom line is that just because its out of character doesnt mean h shouldnt have a lesser sentence.He should be made learn from his mistakes in the same way as others

Post of the thread.

+1 x 1,000,000

Rasheed

old hippy wrote: »

There's no doubt that elements within the GAA community are self serving. It's a parochial thing, isn't it? I'm pretty sure the majority aren't all bad.

What elements? You've proof I'm sure.