The super honest what's wrong with the IAA thread 2013 mod warning post 1 and post53

Dogwatch

ginge_2013 wrote: »

What does it matter my connection. I asked a question are you going to answer it?

Are you the spokesperson for the new committee????

jayod30

Dogwatch wrote: »

Are you the spokesperson for the new committee????

Are you gonna be the mod with a bit balls that will actually lock this train wreck of a thread as from the start it is clearly going NOWHERE????

sliabh

Dogwatch wrote: »

Why do you consider a simple question to be "stirring the ****".
If you dont know the answer then dont respond.

If the IAA still exists then maybe a current committee member could let us know they will not be using boards and all these stickied threads can be let drop down the forum into oblivion.

This whole thread is stirring the ****, and frankly that is has not been killed a long time ago is a poor reflection on boards and the standard of moderation.

For starters it has been set up with the description "what is wrong with the IAA" - declaring from the outset that there is a problem with the organisation regardless of whether that is true or not.

The ground rules for the thread then were farcical and would be laughed out of any proper "discussion"

• you may ask any question
• you may not disagree with anybody's question.
• you may not discuss anyone else's question

So anyone was able claim whatever they like ("how long has the IAA had a policy of recruiting and defending paedophiles?"), and no one can stand up to say otherwise.

The "discussion" (which it wasn't because a proper debate is a 2-way thing), whatever the original intent, appears rigged from the outset to say that the IAA is broken. Its no wonder they refused to engage with such a process.

I seriously doubt they will be along here to answer even the simplest of questions, because to do so would be to legitimise what looks like a blatant hatchet job.

whydave

whydave wrote: »

So invite sent via facebook for Jolly boys 5.hope to hear back soon.Email sent.new email sent with new date

ginge_2013 wrote: »

I also know for a fact that the IAA were invited to Jolly Boys 4 and declined by e-mail due to scheduling conflicts. You should really check your facts.

whydave wrote: »

Email received!

This is true there was show on in Naas, that e-mail was received & not passed on to anyone as it was addressed to me. I posted again in this thread to let users of boards.ie that the 'new team' were invited to Jolly boys 5 and it may be a chance to meet them on an airsoft site.I feel that this was a good idea as we(most) of use started here and new players who only hear about the IAA in the most unpleasant way may get to see that they are not strangers but players !
Just on one point this may be the tenth event I have arranged over the history of airsoft in Ireland and all past IAA committees have been invited non attended but this is the first to respond (Via email) that they will be unable to attend.

TheDoc

Dogwatch wrote: »

Are you the spokesperson for the new committee????

Why do you insist you get an answer here?

It is pretty obvious that anyone posturing for answers here, has some sort of wonky agenda.

The IAA have their official channels of communication, they may or may not decide to post here depending. But considering the lazy accusations the organisation has got in the past, why should they bother?

New committee have been impressive in fairness going about their business. They've been attending a number of public events promoting the sport professionally and they have been attending sites and from what I understand engaging with players having mature conversations.

This is a glorified talk shop, the thread here has gone on for ages and there hasn't been one tangible " what is wrong" with the organisation that hasn't been rebuked as rubbish.

I get the impression that there is like three lads here who are looking for some personal letter of assurance as to what the committee will do to put their mind at ease.

Requesting conversations to take place in a public forum, especially persistently, comes accross as nearly entrapment, I'm not surprised the IAA arn't engaging here, they probably feel they will be trapped with wild accusations and statements, that at the end of the day never get properly discussed or retracted.

If you have a problem or an issue, you can contact the IAA directly, you don't need to let everyone know your concern, simply is just posturing

ginge_2013

Well done dogwatch. Shown again that the mods are biased. I'm not he new spokesman I'm just sick of the blatant bad mouthing and couldn't sit in the wings and watch anymore. I know the new guys. Ill even ask them to e-mail you if that's what it takes to close this thread.

TheDoc

whydave wrote: »

we(most) of use started here and new players who only hear about the IAA in the most unpleasant way may get to see that they are not strangers but players !

I think at some point the IAA will have to just cut their losses trying to appease the old brigade. As your post suggests, albeit maybe not intentionally, you want the IAA to come to you, and prove to you that the organisation is productive and doesn't match the mud slinging that's gone on in the past.

I know it's not your intention, probably, but sometimes it feels like players want the IAA to come out and woo them into submission.

The IAA burnt a few bridges in the early days, grand, alot of people accept that. But it was what was required at the time, getting the sport safe and ensuring it could survive.

Subsequent committees, with the sport safe, were able to turn attention away from Government and Police, and focus on engaging with the player base and sites and retailers.

I just don't know what people really want. I worked with the IAA last year in a technical capacity. We had Fabio, who was a pretty darn good PRO, regularly sending me content to post to

Facebook
Twitter
Google +
IAA Front Page
Boards.ie IAA thread
Airsofter.ie IAA thread

It's an organisation that represents everyone nationwide, it can't go around to every village nailing flyers to the local SuperValue community info wall....


I'm not having a pop at you Dave, just keep getting the feeling when I read some minority posts here, that people are expected to get their updates in person, and be convinced the IAA is worth dealing with.

The_ChiefDUB

Here's the IAA facebook page https://www.facebook.com/IrishAirsoftAssociation If you actually have an interest in seeing what the association is doing to promote the sport go and take a look. If you just want to keep on bad-mouthing the association or making snide implications you are more than welcome to continue doing so here. But have a think about what you are doing. Are you improving anything for airsofters in Ireland? Are you making a contribution to the sport? Because the lads at the IAA are. And they aren't bothering to bad-mouth anyone else while they're doing it.

By the way - having spoken to the current committee at the last AGM I know for a fact that a couple of them have never even looked at boards and have no intention of starting. So demanding that answers be provided here is simply an exercise in futility. They aren't ignoring you - they simply aren't even seeing what you are saying here. As TheDoc said above (and many times before) there are loads of ways to get in touch with the IAA - this place isn't one of them.

sliabh

TheDoc wrote: »

I get the impression that there is like three lads here who are looking for some personal letter of assurance as to what the committee will do to put their mind at ease.

Boards Gripers: "The IAA is broken because of issues: A, B, C"
Airsoft community: "Those are long since resolved and ancient history"

** Pause **

Boards Gripers: "The IAA is broken because of issues: A, B, C"

TheDoc

Just to clarify, I used Whydaves post as a vessel to convey my message. I get what he is trying to achieve in inviting the committee to the Jboy tours, and it's genuine in it's message.

It was just a good way to convey my point that IAA won't knock on your door and show you a chronological order of things they have done.

They put their information out as best they can with the methods available, which to be fair, is plentiful. And they are only human, they can only go to so many sites and games in a month, and talk to so many people.

When you actually look at the communication avenues the IAA have, it's more then most sporting bodies, and their response times are pretty impressive, when most sporting bodies give you a lead time of 10-14 working days....

SentinelStance

''Woohoo another hater to add to my list.'' AndyG

Perhaps you should ask yourself what you are doing wrong to warrant a list of haters. Just a thought.


Really is lovely watching this thread. Why does it still survive other than to serve as a means to give sly digs to each other?

TheDoc

SentinelStance wrote: »

''Woohoo another hater to add to my list.'' AndyG

Perhaps you should ask yourself what you are doing wrong to warrant a list of haters. Just a thought.


Really is lovely watching this thread. Why does it still survive other than to serve as a means to give sly digs to each other?

I've always been a strong believer in that users should drive the thread discussions, not mods, its not how forums work, and its not how boards used to work.

And I've been most outspoken about it on this forum, that there was too much mod interference in terms of topics and discussion that can and can't be had.

I say leave it open. What purpose does closing the thread have? When people are done talking, and not interested any more, it falls away into obscurity.

Let the thread live, let comments come and let there be mature discussion. Unlike the initial rules posted for this thread, which were archaic and nothing sort of stupid, but granted arnt being enforced which is nice to see.

We still arn't seeing anything tangible.

"What is wrong with the IAA?"

So far, seems nothing. Nothing tangible has come out of it, not one thing. Anything that was mentioned was pretty heavily rebuked or answered. The main one so far was transparency, and in fairness the IAA was just short of having 12 Apostles last term, in spreading the word.

So let's keep talking, lets keep discussing and get something out of it, or when people have nothing left to say, the thread will kill itself, we dont need intervention.

tommyboy_71

whydave wrote: »

Just on one point this may be the tenth event I have arranged over the history of airsoft in Ireland and all past IAA committees have been invited non attended but this is the first to respond (Via email) that they will be unable to attend.

I think that this might be a bit of an exaggeration. Members of the IAA were more than likely at some of them, just not in official capacity.

Its quite easy to change facts to suit your own agenda.


I gave up on this place but I think I will rejoin until this thread gets nuked from space.
Cant let you boys have all the fun*
*For "fun" read unfounded accusations

Tommyboy

senordingdong

I'm going off to form the Coninuity IAA.
Who's with me?

Gatling

senordingdong wrote: »

I'm going off to form the Coninuity IAA.
Who's with me?

About that

Contact email yourwastingyourtime.ie

PH

Dogwatch

All these posters responding and, as far as I know, not one of them on the current committee.

Not everyone is on Facebook and as for the IAA website, the last posts on that were spammers dated 9 june 2013. How much attention is being paid to that as well.

It seems some posters on here can only shout and scream when the IAA is mentioned. I simply wanted to know what the official IAA stance is on using boards. All I am getting is a lot of noise and very little signal.

Perhaps one of you kind people could ask one of them to PM me and let me know the status.

Beasty

OK, I've had a quick look at some of the recent posts in this thread, given some of the local mods have been actively involved in it

I'm going to go through it in more detail later on, but be warned bans and cards will be forthcoming to a number of posters based on some of the posts I have already looked at. Before anyone else gets themselves into trouble (or deeper trouble they are already in) check the site and forum rules. In particular:

• Do not abuse other posters - a particularly dim view is taken when abusing mod volunteers
• Do not back-seat moderate - to be clear asking for the thread to be closed (or in some cases insisting on it) is back-seat moderation. PM the mods to discuss any issues you have with the thread or report the relevant posts
• Do not challenge mod actions/instructions in-thread

If anyone has any questions about this PM me - do not respond in-thread

Thanks

Beasty

andy_g

SentinelStance wrote: »

''Woohoo another hater to add to my list.'' AndyG

Perhaps you should ask yourself what you are doing wrong to warrant a list of haters. Just a thought.


Really is lovely watching this thread. Why does it still survive other than to serve as a means to give sly digs to each other?

Or as it normally is the usual user's that cant abide by the rules which is the case.

The_ChiefDUB

Dogwatch wrote: »

All these posters responding and, as far as I know, not one of them on the current committee.

Not everyone is on Facebook and as for the IAA website, the last posts on that were spammers dated 9 june 2013. How much attention is being paid to that as well.

It seems some posters on here can only shout and scream when the IAA is mentioned. I simply wanted to know what the official IAA stance is on using boards. All I am getting is a lot of noise and very little signal.

Perhaps one of you kind people could ask one of them to PM me and let me know the status.

Like I said, I spoke to them at the AGM and they officially do not use Boards. Don't even have accounts.

andy_g

The_ChiefDUB wrote: »

Like I said, I spoke to them at the AGM and they officially do not use Boards. Don't even have accounts.

Ah but then that's second hand information and not from the current committee so it would be better to hear it from them.

Plus i'd say they have accounts here as one of them used to/still does.

senordingdong

UP THE CIAA

Keegan

Mod warning post 1 and post 53, post 168 a c-mod steps in and from what I can see the answer to the thread is the IAA and Boards.ie don't get along so seriously honest question why hasn't this troll bait of a thread been locked and put to rest?

Gatling

Keegan wrote: »

Mod warning post 1 and post 53, post 168 a c-mod steps in and from what I can see the answer to the thread is the IAA and Boards.ie don't get along so seriously honest question why hasn't this troll bait of a thread been locked and put to rest?

Its not that they don't get along you just have to know the actual history of the association and boards moderators and anybody that speaks up ,

Do a search of the boards.ie feedback forum airsoft moderators for a start

ginge_2013

It's good to see that nobody holds a grudge and carries it on when a new committee takes over! Instead if helping out you would rather bad mouth the new people without actually meeting them or giving them a chance

Beasty

jayod30 banned for a month and banned from posting in this thread again for personal abuse towards a mod, together with numerous examples of challenging mod actions, back-seat modding and earlier abusive posts

sliabh yellow carded for back-seat modding

Keegan yellow carded for ignoring my earlier instruction

There were other posts I could have carded but have let go for now. However please note there will be zero tolerance going forward and any previous examples of posts that were close to or over the line will be taken into account when considering any future action

For those claiming the thread should be closed because it's a "train-wreck" it's clear to me that many of those posters have contributed to the problems arising. Other posters have contributed in a constructive manner (from both sides) without resorting to abuse, challenging mod actions or back-seat modding.

The thread remains open - I will continue to monitor it - there is no reason why posters cannot discuss these issues in an adult fashion

Any questions, PM me - do not respond in-thread

Thanks

Beasty

defenderdude

With the greatest of respect to both AndyG and Dogwatch whom I know personally, I feel this ill-conceived thread has single handedly done more damage to the relationship between the IAA and boards and many boards users and the mods.

Personally I am both dismayed and embarrassed by some of the carry-on. I am not trying to excuse discent and abuse against mods but Moderation has been in my opinion - unfair, biased and ill judged.

I did not want to get involved in this at all - but I have grown sick and tired of the constant petty bs and bickering which is rotting the sport from within.
I have been a member of boards for over 11 years and have always been a big defender of boards - but I've had enough and can no longer stomach this embarrassing fiasco.
Put the sport before yourselves guys.

Dogwatch

The following was sent to me by PM and is taken from the IAA website.

http://irishairsoft.ie/?page_id=13

Forums
Boards.ie Airsoft Forum – The birthplace of the Irish Airsoft community in the Republic.

Boards.ie was and still is at the heart of the Irish Airsoft community.

The_ChiefDUB

Dogwatch wrote: »

The following was sent to me by PM and is taken from the IAA website.

http://irishairsoft.ie/?page_id=13

Forums
Boards.ie Airsoft Forum – The birthplace of the Irish Airsoft community in the Republic.

Boards.ie was and still is at the heart of the Irish Airsoft community.

Oh...my...god... This changes everything!

Dogwatch

The_ChiefDUB wrote: »

Oh...my...god... This changes everything!

Sadly, it probably will not:(:(:(

The_ChiefDUB

Well, no probably not. Which genuinely is very sad in my opinion. I do think the potential for good here is immense and I believed that while PRO of the IAA which is why our updates were all sent to boards during my term. But when an opening was given for discussion we were quickly given a hugely negative thread (this one) through which a small few could get cheap and unfounded digs in at the people who were doing their best for airsoft. Digs which came from people who were doing NOTHING to help the community.

Dogwatch

Some of those of whom you are so critical have done a lot for the sport in the past, yet in some quarters do not get any recognition for their time and efforts because of a variety of reasons.

When they attempt to air their grievances, all they receive is a torrent of abuse and ridicule and very little discussion. Every story has two sides and both should be heard

We should learn from our history, but for whatever reason, some people do not want that history exposed or discussed under any circumstances.

As Boards.ie is a discussion site and is subject to various levels of oversight, I do not understand why that discussion can not take place here.

There been a variety of accusations of bias and unfairness leveled against the Mod team yet not one poster has substantiated these with examples. The Cmods and Admins are there to ensure the Mods act within not only the letter of the Charter but also the spirit.

The_ChiefDUB

Yes - I agree - some of the people who are now very negative have done things in the past. But why are they now so critical of those who are doing positive things right now when their grievances are with people who are no longer connected to the IAA. The current committee has zero to do with those committees which were marked by so much conflict. When I was on the IAA I had no connection whatsoever to anyone who had been involved in past committees yet I was subject to the same levels of criticism. I was constantly criticised for a lack of transparency and not responding to communications. Both of which were entirely unfounded. I answered in a timely manner every single communication which came to the IAA during my time there and I reported on absolutely everything that the association was doing - and STILL, we had the same old grudges coming up - "oh the IAA doesn't answer emails" "the IAA works in shadow" - criticisms leveled at a committee which hadn't even had a chance to commit these sins by the time they started coming in and which worked very hard to ensure that they never happened under our watch. Now we have the new committee which is incredibly visible to the public attending public events and getting the good word about airsoft out there - and they get the same criticisms. They are working with a skeleton crew and do not have the resources to do absolutely everything so the level of work they are putting in is amazing - yet still the same old BS gets thrown at them.

It is possible to undo all of the good that you have done in the past. Contributing nothing but negativity - and in the case of one individual, withholding access to the IAA's funds which were held in the IAA PayPal account from 3 successive committees and thereby doing a huge amount of damage to the association, and others who could have helped but chose to ignore phone calls and emails - these things put you far in to the 'hurt the sport' category - whatever amount of good you might have been doing before.

You are right about boards - it is enormously popular as a site and gets a lot of traffic. For that reason I think the mods have a responsibility to ensure at least an unbiased light be seen here by newcomers to the sport or those who might be interested. This thread - with its hugely negative title - which was started by a mod! - can only do damage. I believe the mod who started it should be ashamed of himself - for the tone and for the preposterous rules which he set on it himself.

Yes - there are legitimate gripes in Irish airsoft but please tell me (anyone of you) what exactly is being achieved by constantly airing these in public?

sliabh

I have to say that based on my experience with the Rionegro event the place where it is all happening is Facebook.

I stuck with the traditional Airsoft forums in the last two years and deliberately held off publicising the event there until about 6 week beforehand last year. The increased interaction was immediately apparent. I am seeing the same thing this year.

Without exaggeration I would say that (excluding 1:1 email) 95% of our interaction with the airsoft community is through Facebook. Posts there get immediate and lengthy responses and comments. Whereas you can see that the Rionegro thread here on boards (as well as the ones on AirsoftIreland and Airsofter) are ghost towns by comparison.

Love it or hate it (and personally I am no fan of Facebook) it is where the people are these days.

The_ChiefDUB

This is why I believe the current committee has made the right choice to focus their limited resources on facebook where they are getting through to a lot of people.

ginge_2013

The title of the link that was posted by Dogwatch is useful links. As the IAA are there to give information to airsofters, boards has a couple of useful threads that they may use.
The link for contact information on the other hand is this:

http://irishairsoft.ie/?page_id=14

It does not mention boards as a method of contact or communication.

The_ChiefDUB

ginge_2013 wrote: »

The title of the link that was posted by Dogwatch is useful links. As the IAA are there to give information to airsofters, boards has a couple of useful threads that they may use.
The link for contact information on the other hand is this:

http://irishairsoft.ie/?page_id=14

It does not mention boards as a method of contact or communication.

Precisely - also who was it that PM'd that link to Dogwatch and why is he bringing the content of a PM to the open forum? Was it perhaps one of the people who had been complaining about the IAA website being out of date? Well if it is so out of date, then surely that information is out of date too? You can't have it both ways lads.

Beasty

The_ChiefDUB wrote: »

Precisely - also who was it that PM'd that link to Dogwatch and why is he bringing the content of a PM to the open forum? .

If you have a problem with a post report it. Dogwatch did not publish the contents of a PM he simply provided a copy of a link to a public website that he was provided via PM. Revealing who sent that PM would of course contravene Boards rules

The_ChiefDUB

Beasty wrote: »

If you have a problem with a post report it. Dogwatch did not publish the contents of a PM he simply provided a copy of a link to a public website that he was provided via PM. Revealing who sent that PM would of course contravene Boards rules

The point of my post is that if the argument is that the website is out of date - then the information he is posting should be considered out of date too and also deemed to be out of date. I have no problem with DogWatch posting information from a PM - I am 100% sure the person who PM'd him gave him permission to post it or at least has no problem with him posting that. I suspect the reason for the PM rather than posting it themselves is that they are among those who argue that the IAA website is out of date and they'd just be hurting their own argument.

Lemming

The_ChiefDUB wrote: »

The point of my post is that if the argument is that the website is out of date - then the information he is posting should be considered out of date too and also deemed to be out of date.

Out of curiosity, which bit of what he posted is out of date? What he posted were originally intended as statements of fact by the IAA themselves. Facts don't go out of date; they can only be disproved if they are wrong.

Bit different from the listed current committee.

The_ChiefDUB

Lemming wrote: »

Out of curiosity, which bit of what he posted is out of date? What he posted were originally intended as statements of fact by the IAA themselves. Facts don't go out of date; they can only be disproved if they are wrong.

Bit different from the committee list.

I would argue that "Boards.ie was and still is at the heart of the Irish Airsoft community." is no longer a correct statement (and is not a fact, but an opinion) - though I do not believe that is text which will you will find on the IAA website, the quote from the website was being used to support it. The heart of the Irish Airsoft community (in online terms) is on facebook and it is diffuse by nature - spread across a number of pages and groups and held together by constant communications between players from around the country who while they may never have met in person are friends on facebook and share their news that way.

My issue with this is detailed above and this isn't even an issue which I care about - it was simply a comment. The issues I feel strongly about have been detailed in my longer post.

Lemming

The_ChiefDUB wrote: »

I would argue that "Boards.ie was and still is at the heart of the Irish Airsoft community." is no longer a correct statement - though I do not believe that is text which will you will find on the IAA website, the quote from the website was being used to support it. The heart of the Irish Airsoft community (in online terms) is on facebook and it is diffuse by nature - spread across a number of pages and groups and held together by constant communications between players from around the country who while they may never have met in person are friends on facebook and share their news that way.

My issue with this is detailed above and this isn't even an issue which I care about - it was simply a comment. The issues I feel strongly about have been detailed in my longer post.

I'm not overly fussed either to be perfectly honest. I was curious to know which bit you felt was incorrect. There was a time when boards was the hub of activity for the Irish community; but with time, growth, disagreements, etc. the community has exceeded the boundaries of boards and that community is now spread out across multiple websites, facebook, and with people who don't bother with online activity. It's becoming a younger, smaller miniature version of the UK community (or any other national community I would wager).

With that in mind, I wouldn't suggest that it's all on facebook either. Not everyone uses facebook; same way that not everyone uses boards.ie et al.

The heart of the Irish airsoft community is, and always has been, the airsoft site. Without it, there is no airsoft.

Edit: With my comments regards the Irish airsoft community growing up and spreading out; I do believe that the recriminations (past & present) towards the IAA need to be parked by the door. Yes the IAA needs critical feedback, but with that comes responsibility to suggest solutions. It's easy to point out what's wrong with life, the universe, and everything, but it's far harder (and more useful) to suggest realistic, sensible solutions.

So if someone says "this needs changed", and the IAA don't get it done in a timely manner, rather than whinging about it, perhaps ask "what do you need to get this done?". If nothing else, it will engage conversation and perhaps open up some other avenues to effect change.

The_ChiefDUB

Well said.

fayer

Wow I dont come into this forum any longer (for reasons exactly like this thread) looks like its not changed at all around here.

Re the IAA guys not using this site, I think you are blowing the current importance of boards.ie out of proportion. Yes boards.ie was a key part in the sports foundation and growth, but that has changed. Only a small % of players and even less collectors know about this place, it may be the largest dedicated irish airsoft online community, but that is still tiny compared to the actual player base.

I think the new committee is focusing the resources on the channels that will reach the broadest sections of the public, that is not boards.ie any more. Them not wasting time (and their sanity) posting here will not cause a loss of sleep for anyone waiting to see decent promotion of the sport.

(dont bother replying to me, I wont be back to see them)

Lemming

fayer wrote: »

Re the IAA guys not using this site, I think you are blowing the current importance of boards.ie out of proportion. Yes boards.ie was a key part in the sports foundation and growth, but that has changed. Only a small % of players and even less collectors know about this place, it may be the largest dedicated irish airsoft online community, but that is still tiny compared to the actual player base.

I think the new committee is focusing the resources on the channels that will reach the broadest sections of the public, that is not boards.ie any more. Them not wasting time (and their sanity) posting here will not cause a loss of sleep for anyone waiting to see decent promotion of the sport.

I'm going to comment on this - despite your protestations for being allowed to write something and then cut & run claiming you wont respond. And I'm going to say it because I believe what you've said is fundamentally unsound; not because I think boards.ie needs me or anyone else to defend it. Its use will say enough for it.

Th two above quoted paragraphs are at direct odds with one another. Either boards is the largest dedicated airsoft online community for Ireland, and ergo the IAA would be foolish to ignore it as the single largest slice of representation, or it's not and therefore worth ignoring as you have said.

So which is it? You can't have it both ways; and attempting to peddle it both ways is intellectually dishonest.

Do a google and tell me what comes up on page one. Here's the list:

• Wikipedia entry for Airsoft
• Airsoft Eire
• MIA
• Hobby Airsoft
• Munster Airsoft
• SE Airsoft
• Airsoft Guns Ireland
• Airsoft - boards.ie
• SG Airsoft
• Rathbeggan

Of that list, there are two entries that are not retailers or sites (excluding wikipedia). Whilst Munster Airsoft is a club, it is however dedicated on a narrow geographical area, leaving boards.ie as the sole nationwide carrier for discussion. That is all from page one.

You have to start trawling back through subsequent pages to find other discussion forums - some of which are specific to sites, reducing their representative range in this matter.

In short, I believe it to be both a serious mistake and not an insignificant amount of personal bias among current committee members towards boards.ie that amounts to cutting off ones nose to spite ones face. Ultimately it does a great disservice to the IAA by ignoring the single largest representative slice of the Irish airsoft community whilst simultaneously doing absolutely nothing from its own end to settle divisions amongst the community.

(dont bother replying to me, I wont be back to see them)

That's ok, I'm not replying for you; I'm replying for everyone else. You'll read this anyway. I don't believe people when they write stuff like that; if you felt that way you wouldn't bother writing at all.

Edit: so you want to say that the IAA don't bother with boards.ie; That's fine. But don't peddle it as being because the IAA wants to reach the broadest sections of the Irish airsoft community. Because that is cobblers if the largest single representative portion of that community is being ignored as you claim.

TheDoc

I did some pretty indepth statistical analysis last year in terms of traffic and reach to the player base. I didn't solicit boards.ie for visitor numbers as I had been refused this previously from another forum. I used the number tracking at the bottom of the main forum, along with the public stats boards.ie provides.

It returned some pretty interesting data. I think what Fayer was trying to convey, is that while boards.ie was once perceived as being the main centre of airsoft, and at present is probably one of the most developed(however not mature) the actual traffic it receives is significantly lower then other avenues. In other words there is a big site here with alot of sub-forums and threads, but the actual throughput by individuals is pretty low.

I don't need to go into the main details and specifics, but Facebook was by far the biggest traffic centre for players looking for the IAA followed by the IAA website, routed via Twitter. Now if your a longtime player, ask yourself how many times you visit the website a week, or a month. Unless there is something big up, probably zero.

Surprisingly enough, there was monster traffic through the website during my time with the IAA, obviously spiking with new posts, but having a consistently high flow of data.

Also I think your google search is skewered. You've done that search based from a localised search for Ireland. Google will try filter your search to localisation and then provide results. If you do a search from a global point of view with no localisation, the IAA website comes in the top 10 sites globally. If you search Irish airsoft, it comes in the top 5.

But lets be frank here, the reason the IAA is probably not posting here, and has been weary in the past, is not because of low traffic. It takes two minutes to send a PM here to get a news post up. The issue is a collection of a few things

Perception that boards.ie hierarchy is Anti-IAA
Player feedback via social media platforms that boards.ie is not their main platform for airsoft discussion
Significant numbers indicating they are not members or posters to boards.ie
Retailers and sites no longer promoting boards.ie to new players or collectors, as a main resource.

There is some other stuff lack downward spiral of content etc., but the above comes from fact and it's not open for speculation. Think about it. When we started forums where a really main platform of communication for communities of all sorts. Facebook was in it's infancy and not available in Ireland. Bebo was the social media king of Ireland at the time.

There has been a total shift in simply how the world operates online. I still will always prefer a forum, I prefer the structure and detail, and making users actually write something in correct grammar. Facebook is a horrendous platform to host a community and have any debate. But at the end of the day, it's the default go to for most of the world, and you can't expect anyone to launch a crusade against it.

If your a 15-20 year old wanting to talk about airsoft or find out about airsoft, the likely hood is Facebook is the first port of call, rather then a forum. I can even acknowledge this from League of Legends. Reddit is the main global community, but in Ireland, it's a Facebook group. Horribly formatted and horribly structured, but it's where everyone is at.

Here at boards, a MOBA forum is being setup. For starts the LoL community has little interested because its not dedicated league of legends, but general consensus from the Facebook group, from people who don't use boards is that ( the following from a prominant LoL community guy

Why would we go to boards? The community here is well developed, and discussions are well beyond that place. It's where new people go to get some info, or ask how to install the game You'll never see good stuff there about meta game or evolution of ****, it's for all the new guys to ask the questions we covered here a million times

And I've noticed to be fair, that this is becoming the trend. I'm on alot of forums here, and the overwhelming trend in the last 18-20 months is that posters come to a forum fresh, looking for information, getting it, hanging around for a while. Then they realise there is nothing of value past a certain point, and they move on to somewhere of higher value. That has been extremely noticable in a few sub-gaming forums, and particularly here

The_ChiefDUB

Do a google and tell me what comes up on page one. Here's the list:
Wikipedia entry for Airsoft
Airsoft Eire
MIA
Hobby Airsoft
Munster Airsoft
SE Airsoft
Airsoft Guns Ireland
Airsoft - boards.ie
SG Airsoft
Rathbeggan

I think your argument is confusing SEO power with actual popularity. Airsoft on boards.ie is backed up by the strength of probably the country's largest site - and yet it is still ranking so far down the front page of a Google result. I would have expected it to rank much higher.

But as Doc says above - I don't think this is the whole story when it comes to the IAA's policy of not posting here. I personally believe the IAA should communicate through all possible avenues and I believed this when I was working with the IAA. Prior to that I couldn't understand the reasons for not doing so. Since my time with the IAA, I understand those reasons 100% and I really can't blame them.

Lemming

TheDoc wrote: »

Also I think your google search is skewered. You've done that search based from a localised search for Ireland. Google will try filter your search to localisation and then provide results. If you do a search from a global point of view with no localisation, the IAA website comes in the top 10 sites globally. If you search Irish airsoft, it comes in the top 5.

I specified google.ie because that is what users in Ireland will be auto-directed to when they visit google, unless they explicitly state otherwise. So whilst you are correct from a global perspective, when joe-soap newbie decides to check out airsoft for the first time, they're probably just going to run with whatever localised view google serves up, making boards.ie likely as a port of call.

But lets be frank here, the reason the IAA is probably not posting here, and has been weary in the past, is not because of low traffic. It takes two minutes to send a PM here to get a news post up. The issue is a collection of a few things

Perception that boards.ie hierarchy is Anti-IAA
Player feedback via social media platforms that boards.ie is not their main platform for airsoft discussion
Significant numbers indicating they are not members or posters to boards.ie
Retailers and sites no longer promoting boards.ie to new players or collectors, as a main resource.

As I've said already; I believe that the hatchet on all things IAA-grievance related need buried by all concerned - that extends to all past & present committee members. It is a fight that will never be won, does nothing but cement further division, and just pisses everyone off.

People need to let go on both sides of the fence, and as I have also already said, engage with the IAA instead of pointing fingers (and vice versa the IAA itself instead of perceived circling the wagons constantly).

There is some other stuff lack downward spiral of content etc., but the above comes from fact and it's not open for speculation. Think about it. When we started forums where a really main platform of communication for communities of all sorts. Facebook was in it's infancy and not available in Ireland. Bebo was the social media king of Ireland at the time.

There has been a total shift in simply how the world operates online. I still will always prefer a forum, I prefer the structure and detail, and making users actually write something in correct grammar. Facebook is a horrendous platform to host a community and have any debate. But at the end of the day, it's the default go to for most of the world, and you can't expect anyone to launch a crusade against it.

But all of the above is speculation. We have no hard & fast numbers, only anecdotal observations Doc. Whilst I'm not disputing the observed pattern, I think you're attaching undue significance to the impact of facebook. It's a factor of convenience, but that's where facebook starts and stops. As you've said; it's a horrendous medium for any sort of discussion. And I have found that over time, I check the status notices rather than visit a given page because I know that 90% of the time it'll be an absolute ball-ache to follow. If I want to find anything, I know not to bother if it's older than a couple of days.

What facebook groups are fantastic for is pushing out updates/announcements by sites & retailers, where information/discussion is throw-away and short-term. But as a discussion platform? No. In its current format, absolutely not.

And to be perfectly truthful, facebook is not my default port of call if I want to find a community because of that reality. I may go and take a look after a google, or if a community/site/whatever says it has a facebook group page. And that is simply because facebook is not user friendly when trying to find information.

If your a 15-20 year old wanting to talk about airsoft or find out about airsoft, the likely hood is Facebook is the first port of call, rather then a forum. I can even acknowledge this from League of Legends. Reddit is the main global community, but in Ireland, it's a Facebook group. Horribly formatted and horribly structured, but it's where everyone is at.

That will change. 15-20 year olds grow up and their tastes/opinions/views are the most likely of any age demographic to change wildly with great frequency.

The_ChiefDUB

As I've said already; I believe that the hatchet on all things IAA-grievance related need buried by all concerned - that extends to all past & present committee members. It is a fight that will never be won, does nothing but cement further division, and just pisses everyone off.

+1

Steve

There is a lot of truth and sense in this:

Lemming wrote: »

As I've said already; I believe that the hatchet on all things IAA-grievance related need buried by all concerned

OK, I'll hold my hands up here and say that starting this thread wasn't one of the smartest things I've ever done as a mod here. That said, there are lessons to be learned and there is wisdom there for the taking.

So, what next?
We have been discussing the whole idea of facilitating IAA discussion here (or not as used to be the case) and are in agreement that we want to have it. The fact that the IAA are saying they won't respond here is irrelevant, we can live with that but they are the governing body for the sport so it makes no sense to not allow any mention of them. They are more than welcome to participate here if and when they wish to.

Nothing is final yet but we'll probably have a dedicated IAA discussion thread once we work out the ground rules for it (please pm any of the mods or cmods if you want to offer ideas there).

Thanks to all who contributed, bye bye thread.