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The super honest what's wrong with the IAA thread 2013 mod warning post 1 and post53

  • 02-02-2013 12:17am
    #1
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 23,078 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Steve


    OK, following on from a lot on private messages, it seems there is a lot of things that people would like to say / get off their chest.

    It seems to me that, given there is a new committee due to be elected, they should know what they're in for.

    In an attempt to be fair to all, please use this thread to put whatever questions you may have on public record.

    There are a few rules though.

    * you may ask any question you would like the IAA to answer

    * you may not quote or answer anybody on this thread.

    * you may not disagree with anybody's question.

    * you may not discuss anyone else's question.

    * The IAA may post answers here directly or they can post anon via a pm to any of the mods here.

    In short, you may pose a reasonable question to the IAA that you would like answered and I personally will do my best to get an answer.

    I really hope this will work, it will if we all muck in :)

    WARNING
    All posters are reminded that information that identifies or speculates over the identity of any other poster is against the Boards.ie charter.
    Any further instances that occur will be sanctioned


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 365 ✭✭ The_ChiefDUB


    If you would like to get an answer from the IAA committee the best place to put the question is and always has been on the IAA forum at www.irishairsoft.ie or by emailing [email protected]. The IAA forum is also where the official discussions related to the AGM, the nominees for the new committee and the motions which have been put forward by members are bing held.
    You can also email us through Facebook on the IAA Facebook page.
    I do my very best to answer all questions through these channels as quickly as possible.

    Thanks
    Fabio
    IAA PRO


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,544 ✭✭✭ andy_g


    Steve wrote: »
    OK, following on from a lot on private messages, it seems there is a lot of things that people would like to say / get off their chest.

    It seems to me that, given there is a new committee due to be elected, they should know what they're in for.

    In an attempt to be fair to all, please use this thread to put whatever questions you may have on public record.

    There are a few rules though.

    * you may ask any question you would like the IAA to answer

    * you may not quote or answer anybody on this thread.

    * you may not disagree with anybody's question.

    * you may not discuss anyone else's question.

    * The IAA may post answers here directly or they can post anon via a pm to any of the mods here.

    In short, you may pose a reasonable question to the IAA that you would like answered and I personally will do my best to get an answer.

    I really hope this will work, it will if we all muck in :)

    Great idea for the thread Steve, think it will be good for the community here on boards. And maybe get more members for the iaa.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2 Alane23


    As the current Vice-Chairman of the association I would just like to say a few words.

    The work that has gone into getting the association, internally, back up and running was extremely difficult. We have achieved this and it is in great shape.

    We are working on a lot of ideas that will benefit the entire community of Airsoft. We should have these ideas ready to publicise very soon.

    As a player myself I can see these ideas being a great success for everyone involved in Airsoft and will only be beneficial to the sport.

    We all need to work together....Retailers, Sites and players because without 1 the others do not exist.


  • Registered Users Posts: 164 ✭✭ tonymccann


    its a volunteer organisation and yet when help is offered it is ignored as in my case I at the moment feel very very very insulted by this not just me so this tells me its jobs for the boys and a click

    I feel that there are certain big boys controlling the organisation from the back ground this can be implied by certain responses to my own post here

    I did want to stand and I know I would have given a very good contribution but I was turned off by what I just put up on this post and reply that was made to my other posts

    the website is a disgrace (not updated) it would take 20 mins to update this is just lazy

    weather the committee like it or not there is a huge lack of transperencey for example why was the nominations hidden and only released at the last min and even then hidden away in the agm 2012 section on the forum again this is just lazy

    this is just what I see and it has turned me off the iaa and airsoft in general and that's the worst part of it


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,023 ✭✭✭ sliabh


    <snip> stay within the rules of the first post please. Steve.


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 23,078 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Steve


    Just to add to the first post, you may post an opinion on something that you think is wrong (as opposed to a question) as long as it's not a baseless rant and you can back it up with something factual.

    I *will* be asking people to either justify their posts or rescind them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 990 ✭✭✭ jayod30


    <snip>


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,984 FingalAirsoft


    Whats wrong is that past committees had done some great work only for it to be undone by a few idiots, opening this thread to allow people with a grip to rant in the form of a question:(:(

    Anyone that knows me knows I've no great love for the IAA, As I did see it as a little stupid clique.... having said that there is some good people at the helm now who I know are trying to save it and make it better and more transparent. Times have changed people but as we all know the sport can be in danger at the whim of a minster, and we all know that they only go with popular opinion/ knee jerk politics.

    We as Airsofters/plinkers/collectors/Sites ops and retailers still need a unified voice when idiots start to sling the s**t our way.
    Sites needs a proper set of standards to adhere to and Retailers need to operate with a good set of ethics and morals, Selling cheap springers to kids in markets/high street shops needs to stop as they are only in it for the money and not for the sport!

    We as Airsofters/plinkers/collectors/Sites ops and retailers don't need to know every fcuking little detail that goes on in the IAA, because demanding every little detail be logged and made public just increases the work load on the committee who have a life as well.
    What we need is a unified voice that's there to step in when ****s going down or the sport is being attacked by idiots with nothing better to do!
    Wipe the slate clean and stop looking back at past failures.... if you love this sport then get behind the new committee and give them fresh ideas on how to better the sports image and make it better for everyone concerned.
    This whole thread is heading for a train wreck when the title is 'What's wrong with the IAA' Why can't it be 'How do we make it better'
    Fingal Airsoft has never been an affiliate to the IAA along with a few other sites like Red Barn.... that does not mean past and present committee have not asked us how do we make things better.
    Stop the s**t slinging and just maybe they can get on with the business of promoting and looking out for Airsoft.

    Bren


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 221 ✭✭ SYDEWYNDER


    Whats wrong with the IAA? Its members. Not all of them. Just the ones who can't let go of past mistakes. I'm not a member and I have no intention of joining until its membership base stop constantly lashing it.

    This is a fresh start. Transparency and honesty is already becoming apparent. I hope soon we see the IAA's membership's attitude improves.

    Move on gents.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,432 Kashkai


    Perhaps I'm being pedantic but maybe the acronym needs to change, i.e. "IAA" stands for:
    Irish Aviation Authority (my former employers)
    Irish Alcoholics Anonymous (no affiliation on my part)
    International Adoption Association (Ireland)
    Irish Autism Action
    International Advertising Association

    So perhaps, to stand out from the crowded IAA field, change the name to something original like "Association of Irish Airsofters (AIA)" or "Airsoft Association of Ireland (AAI)".

    As Bren said, forget the past, move on and see what happens. If the same people, with the same attitudes (or so I've heard) keep on with the same old, same old, then bitch away.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,673 ✭✭✭✭ senordingdong


    Problem I always saw was that they IAA weren't more vocal about their accomplishments or all the the hard work and long hours that they put in.
    There are too many who have no idea what the IAA do other than take the fight back to Joe Duffy.

    Whatever problems people have with IAA past or present, we would not have airsoft as we know it today without them.

    It seems like a thankless job to nobody wants to do but everyone wants to complain about


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,084 ✭✭✭✭ TheDoc


    So let me get this straight, there is a thread for people to post "questions" to the IAA, yet there is to be no discussions about said questions?

    I'm not understanding this really, its a discussion forum. As a community, and a DISCUSSION FORUM, we should be able to discuss other posters points. WE should be able to challenge opinion. Not just hand people a free rant with no comeback.

    So can this be elaborated please?

    There are multiple avenues of communication to the IAA, if anyone has questions they want to raise, they know how to raise them. This is just giving a free pass to let people have a rant and bust out a controversy.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 23,078 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Steve


    Doc, this is a thread to facilitate the users of this forum and to give them an opportunity to be heard by those who will be elected to represent their interests nationally.

    There is no discussion because, simply, with issues such as this, airsofters on the internet can't agree on the colour of shíte and any points raised will be lost through bickering.

    An opportunity will be given for those interested in carrying forth the torch as elected officials to respond and address any points raised in a structured manner and on our terms. In summary, if you don't like what I'm doing here then you don't have to continue reading it, however, I am not going to deny the users of this forum their say. :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,084 ✭✭✭✭ TheDoc


    Steve wrote: »
    Doc, this is a thread to facilitate the users of this forum and to give them an opportunity to be heard by those who will be elected to represent their interests nationally.

    There is no discussion because, simply, with issues such as this, airsofters on the internet can't agree on the colour of shíte and any points raised will be lost through bickering.

    An opportunity will be given for those interested in carrying forth the torch as elected officials to respond and address any points raised in a structured manner and on our terms. In summary, if you don't like what I'm doing here then you don't have to continue reading it, however, I am not going to deny the users of this forum their say. :)


    http://www.irishairsoft.ie/forum/viewforum.php?f=32

    And yeah, I've ZERO interest. So I'll keep out of it


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 23,078 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Steve


    As I said, it's for this forum, not the IAA one :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 164 ✭✭ tonymccann


    one more thing that is wrong why do the people involved always see the need to go on the defensive the whole time when some one questions them or their work just something I have noticed instead of circling the wagons why cant you just listen and if need be say sorry just something I have noticed posts above just prove this


  • Registered Users Posts: 140 ✭✭ The_Outlaw


    Steve wrote: »
    OK, following on from a lot on private messages, it seems there is a lot of things that people would like to say / get off their chest.

    It seems to me that, given there is a new committee due to be elected, they should know what they're in for.

    In an attempt to be fair to all, please use this thread to put whatever questions you may have on public record.

    There are a few rules though.

    * you may ask any question you would like the IAA to answer

    * you may not quote or answer anybody on this thread.

    * you may not disagree with anybody's question.

    * you may not discuss anyone else's question.

    * The IAA may post answers here directly or they can post anon via a pm to any of the mods here.

    In short, you may pose a reasonable question to the IAA that you would like answered and I personally will do my best to get an answer.

    I really hope this will work, it will if we all muck in :)
    If you would like to get an answer from the IAA committee the best place to put the question is and always has been on the IAA forum at www.irishairsoft.ie or by emailing [email protected]. The IAA forum is also where the official discussions related to the AGM, the nominees for the new committee and the motions which have been put forward by members are bing held.
    You can also email us through Facebook on the IAA Facebook page.
    I do my very best to answer all questions through these channels as quickly as possible.

    Thanks
    Fabio
    IAA PRO

    I am all for giving the New IAA committee a chance, but one observation seems to come to mind as the first two posts clearly show.

    Steve started a thread giving members the opportunity to voice questions and opinions and then Fabio counters that by stating that the way to do things is different. This makes it look like the IAA is divided or have different opinions on how things should be run. It also makes it look weak due to the same reasons.

    I suggest that the best way to install confidence is to be united and open to your membership. Only then will you ever achieve your goals.


  • Registered Users Posts: 140 ✭✭ The_Outlaw


    ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,023 ✭✭✭ sliabh


    This is a train wreck of a thread. People can make any unsubstantiated claim (for or against the IAA) and it can only be responded to by the IAA, who have said they will not take part because of the ground rules that have been put in place.

    It's time to kill it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 915 ✭✭✭ fayer


    The_Outlaw wrote: »

    Steve started a thread giving members the opportunity to voice questions and opinions and then Fabio counters that by stating that the way to do things is different. This makes it look like the IAA is divided or have different opinions on how things should be run. It also makes it look weak due to the same reasons.

    Steve is nothing to do with the IAA. He is not speaking on the associations behalf.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 779 *DOBBY*


    I find this thread farsical at best and the rantings of a few posters who obviously harbour old grudges with previous IAA committee members. Every year around the same time for the AGM, the same old nay sayers come rattling out of their boxes to try stir up sh1t. Repeating the same old rubbish crap over and over. I generally never give credence to these but I take exception to them been given a 'restricted, one way platform' to have their annual delusional rants.
    Why don't these same nay saying posters join up for membership and run for a committee position. Its very easy to give out about one thing or another, but its a whole different ball game to put your money where your mouth is and stand for a position to make the changes you want to see. As far as I'm concerned your viewpoint holds no weight or credence as you wont actively take part in the reform of what we all want to see.
    One of the main nay sayers or disgruntled posters was a previous Vice Chair(fair play for standing) but why did you not try and effect changes that you so grumble about. One could look at that and say you were part of the same problem that you are giving out about.
    Another poster Tony , who was willing to run said he was put of by comments to him, but I could not find any comments that were negative to you Tony, and instead you then choose the side of giving out about the IAA instead of trying to effect the change you too want.
    Now the way I see this is one of too ways, you either give a sh1t about Airsoft and its future OR you don't. Those that are on the committee have been working very hard to try and undo past IAA years of wilderness. They have achieved in sorting out the membership debacle and have the process sorted. They want to see change as much as all of us. Do not knock peolpe who are trying to improve what in most peoples minds is as being broken or defunct, We should only look toward the future of our sport and only reference the past as for 'what not to do'.
    This constant call for transparency and updates is a load of tripe. Bren said it best in his post, We dont need to know every little thing that goes on, they have real lives too. Again its very easy to be a hurler on the ditch but not as easy to do something about it.

    I've a pain in my face with the posters who repeatedly come on and spin the same old sh1t and I'm sick of it. So just give it a rest. You need to look very close at yourself and have a real good look.

    We need to work as best we can as a community, not this bickering and snide comments back and forth.The IAA for one reason or another has a bad rep, be it justified or not, but peolpe/players who want to try and change and improve its image are not being given a chance. Thus giving false info to new players into the sport. So lets everyone forget about the past and move forward.

    And Steve 'stop being a dick' starting these ridiculous threads with ridiculous restrictions on posting. Its VERY transparent.

    I would appreciate no deleting or editing from mods, in the interest of Transparency. Thank you.

    Damian
    Red Barn


  • Registered Users Posts: 869 hrta


    This constant call for transparency and rigorous audits, is the only way it can be, or the iaa will be just like a lot of the institutes of this irish state, and look what went on there, and this is only coming to light now, and i say, i could name every arm of the state, these institutes never done transparency, and look were that got us to this day,

    so if you want all those posters who obviously harbour old grudges with the previous IAA, the same old nay Sayers that come rattling out of their boxes, trying to stir up sh1t, Repeating the same old rubbish crap over and over,
    transparency, transparency, transparency.

    And it would make you laugh to just think about that for a sec, as it was the same the same old nay sayers that come rattling out of their boxes, trying to stir up sh1t, Repeating the same old rubbish and crap over and over again, That just some of these state institutes to own up to there wrong doing's in the past, to people of this state,

    So it's all about transparency and rigorous audits, that will be seen to be fair and transparent inside and outside, and all investigations should be by
    an Independent body out side of the Iaa, as is the case of all state body's now.


    i could say more, But you give's a **** any more.

    Paul.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,544 ✭✭✭ andy_g


    The only thing i will say here is that other people are right and the iaa does need to be more transparent, and let it's member's see what is actually going on.

    As it currently stand the iaa are saying they represent every airsofter in Ireland yet maybe there is some that dont want to be represented by them?

    Why you might ask as some may not understand what the iaa is or does or maybe thy dont like what they see.

    So what do i think is wrong? I currently think the iaa try to shout down its members that challenge them or say something they dont like again if it was more transparent more people may join and say "Ah thats what the iaa are doing.

    Ah thats what they are going to do or thats what they did for me"

    It's not too difficult to tell the member and future members whats planned or what the have in the pipeline.

    This is one thing i can think of at the moment and is my opinion not one of boards.ie before people say oh he is a mod.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,050 sci-ops


    Been biting my tongue for the past couple of days reading this..

    Firstly, I am NOT a member of the IAA, currently that is. This has been down to both my previous involvement with a retailer and my dislike for some of the things which went on with PREVIOUS Committee's, in particular the handling of Memberships around Volunteer work, namely the Salute Show. But that is/was covered in other thread's at length.

    I will wait to see who VOLUNTEERS and gets nominated for positions before making a decision on joining this year. (for those missing the subtle hint, these people are volunteer's, giving up their free time)

    Reading the posts, the majority of gripes seem to be about making the IAA more transparent.....or as Andy just said in his last post....letting people see what the IAA are doing, so let's have a look at this shall we.

    The current committee, from what I can see, have been placing regular updates on the IAA's homepage, with document's of meetings also being posted, on a nearly monthly basis. This is a damn sight more than previous committees have been doing. I point this out as the current committee was/is an emergency committee, which was formed in July after a number of resignations.

    Their first posting was on August 9th, informing people of what's going on.....with a number of other posts, including Agenda's which the committee were taking on, throughout August. In fact, looking at their website, the only Month I can see which was quiet for them was October....

    There have been constant and consistent updates from this current committee, which from what I can see/read, were informing both members and non-members of developments, decisions etc....

    I find this whole argument that the IAA needs to be MORE Transparent farcical at best (I was going to say debate, but it's not even close to a debate). Bar holding daily/weekly/monthly meetings for all Member's/Non-Memebers to attend, I fail to see how they could possibly get more transparent. It would imagine it also infeasible for them to do this, not only for the logistics of getting every member there, but also the costs involved with renting/hiring a location.

    Rant over. I apologise to the more civil minded amongst you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 990 ✭✭✭ jayod30


    andy_g wrote: »
    The only thing i will say here is that other people are right and the iaa does need to be more transparent, and let it's member's see what is actually going on.
    sci-ops wrote: »

    The current committee, from what I can see, have been placing regular updates on the IAA's homepage, with document's of meetings also being posted, on a nearly monthly basis. This is a damn sight more than previous committees have been doing. I point this out as the current committee was/is an emergency committee, which was formed in July after a number of resignations.

    Their first posting was on August 9th, informing people of what's going on.....with a number of other posts, including Agenda's which the committee were taking on, throughout August. In fact, looking at their website, the only Month I can see which was quiet for them was October....

    There have been constant and consistent updates from this current committee, which from what I can see/read, were informing both members and non-members of developments, decisions etc....

    Thanks sci-ops for pointing this out, you've pretty much covered just what I had wanted to say. The transparency is there on the official website for all to see if they were half bothered to look rather than going off half cocked. The current committee should be applauded for their hard work and effort over such a small period of time, not ridiculed at every opportunity.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,673 ✭✭✭✭ senordingdong


    Can anybody elaborate on this transparency that everyone is talking about?

    It's a group of volunteers, not a bank.


  • Registered Users Posts: 109 ✭✭ eversmann


    <snip>


  • Registered Users Posts: 986 se conman


    Transparency in airsoft means that those who won't stand for committee because they don't have time or are too lazy or are too paranoid want those who do stand for committee even thou they don't have time to inform the public of every little tad of info no matter how trivial thus wasting more time they didn't have to the point of heckling which has prompted several committee members to resign , myself included. A past shop owner actually threatened me and the IAA with legal action because of a feud he was having with another party. That was enough for me as it showed these people in their true light and they are no friends of airsoft. There was around 14 people at the last EGM , where were all the people that are looking for this transparency ? If you cannot be bothered to join the IAA or help them , then don't hinder them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,130 ✭✭✭✭ Lemming


    If you - as a former committee member conman - have such a jaded notion as to what transparency should be and why it is so important, then you really shouldn't have stood in the first place.

    When someone stands for election they are asking the community to allow them to speak on behalf of said community. They become the defacto 'face' of the community to the outside world. That's on top of asking the community for fees on a yearly basis. Transparency is fundamental as a result. Without it, there is no trust. And without trust, there is no decisive will on the part of the airsoft community to throw its weight behind the IAA.

    It's not about people "wasting time", or being "trivial", or "heckling", or any other b*llocks. IAA committee membership does not have a monopoly on all the crap that happens to someone voted into office, be it the local neighbourhood watch, the IAA, or Dail Eireann. It's not nice, but neither will it ever be plain sailing as you proclaim to speak on behalf of others. You will & should be held accountable.

    If you want to see what transparency really is: I direct you towards the UKAPU website. By comparison, the IAA have been lacking in official communications by and large over the years. With the exception of the 2009 committee who posted plenty of minutes, albeit mostly for the first quarter of 2009, the only other committee to have shown any consistent activity has been the interim committee from mid/late 2012.

    It's all about letting the membership (who have paid and chosen to elect you to speak for them, remember ... ) know what you have been saying/doing on their behalf. That doesn't mean blow-by-blow updates on twitter/facebook/et.all, but it does mean showing some signs of a pulse & activity in an official capacity on a reasonably frequently basis.

    As an aside, "official" does not constitute social media activity. Quite the opposite.

    On matter of the thread itself, I would like to hear from the candidates on concerns that some of their election ideas sound a bit grand and ignore the failures of the past. I refer of course to the failure to get much traction on the regional representatives by past committees and the desire to launch "branches" and "promotional wings" etc. What has changed since previous committees tried to launch the regional representative idea to make such ideas a success? Has any thought been given to creating a confusing message of two entities appearing to compete to give information in the form of the IAA and a promotional wing that has a different brand name? Have any shops bought into the notion of hosting branches? Also, has any costing been applied to the notion of branches and promotional wings?

    I would also like to query the tiered membership idea and whether or not it will add needless bureaucracy, and what pricing is envisaged for the various tiers (excluding the free tier), and what would happen if the majority of membership sign-ups were for the free option? Also, why make shops & sites pay for affiliation. Once they pay, they are no longer affiliates, they are members.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,389 ✭✭✭ extremetaz


    Super honesty eh???? .... fair enough.

    The problem isn't with the IAA at all and it never has been - it's with the community it represents.

    Barring a very small few, you're all thankless egotists dying to be known for your opinions and willing to do f*ck all to earn any such recognition.

    I love the sport of airsoft, but I have long since grown to despise the vast majority of those who would claim to be advocates and ambassadors for it on here.

    You all need to take a very good look at yourselves because it is YOU who are the problem, not the body established to protect the sport that you so freely enjoy.

    Those who are exceptions to the above know who you are, you've genuinely made attempt to help better the community, you've put your shoulder to the wheel at events, you've united for the good of the community rather than for your own petty self interest - you are retailers, site owners, former and serving committee members, and constructive community figureheads, whether members of the IAA or not - you people know who you are.

    ...the rest of you - the self interested, the social commentators, the armchair generals - YOU are the problem! (and by christ there's a lot of you).


This discussion has been closed.
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