The Dalkey House of Horrors

ceadaoin.

The premises being investigated now is on Sundrive Road. It's not related to this.

Horrible that there is apparently another similar case.

SEPT 23 1989

I presumed it was this case

strandroad

In tomorrow's Irish Examiner, one of the named suspects goes public in an effort to clear his name:
http://cf.broadsheet.ie/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Screen-Shot-2016-05-02-at-22.57.20.png

Howjoe1

mhge wrote: »

In tomorrow's Irish Examiner, one of the named suspects goes public in an effort to clear his name:
http://cf.broadsheet.ie/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Screen-Shot-2016-05-02-at-22.57.20.png

Read it and not sure what to feel. If he is innocent, the mental trauma must be horrendous suffered by him and his family. The two inconsistencies brought up are I think addressed well by the solicitor for Cynthia. The article publicly adds a link to the Howard family tragedy which I never heard before. The article I think, possibly only ends up with more stones being thrown.

Muahahaha

Cynthia Owen responds to the article in todays Examiner

I note the article in today’s Irish Examiner which is essentially an interview with Frank Mullen, who has identified himself as somebody who has been a suspect in this case and whose name the Gardaí have not cleared.

It is not for me to address every point Mr Mullen makes in his interview but, by his own admission, he has not been cleared of his involvement in the abuse I suffered and the murder of my daughter as a result of that abuse.

The HSE found me to be very credible, likewise the psychologist hired by the Gardaí to assess my mental health.

And also a jury of six men and six women in the inquest that identified Noleen Murphy as my daughter, who was born to me when I was 11 years old and murdered by my mother to protect the men who were abusing me and who could be her father.

I stand by every allegation I have made regarding the abuse I suffered as a child. My murdered baby girl still lies in a mass grave in Glasnevin, despite my efforts to have her returned to me for a dignified burial, her murder remains unsolved.

I have been calling for a sworn public inquiry and now repeat that call as otherwise the truth will not come out.

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2016/05/03/dalkey-divided/

She's not backing down. If the former Garda didn't sexually abuse her then you'd wonder why is he not suing her for defamation? She published his name on Facebook as one of her abusers back in January and now he feels forced to defend his good name. The way to do that is to sue for defamation but that doesn't seem to have happened here, yet anyway. If someone falsely accused me of sexual abuse I'd be coming with guns blazing.

wakka12

Just harrowing beyond belief. And the parents now denying any of it occurring..after the suicide of 3 of their children..just no words..

whatismyname

wakka12 wrote: »

Just harrowing beyond belief. And the parents now denying any of it occurring..after the suicide of 3 of their children..just no words..

Aren't both parents now dead?

George Michael

Muahahaha wrote: »

Cynthia Owen responds to the article in todays Examiner


http://www.broadsheet.ie/2016/05/03/dalkey-divided/

She's not backing down. If the former Garda didn't sexually abuse her then you'd wonder why is he not suing her for defamation? She published his name on Facebook as one of her abusers back in January and now he feels forced to defend his good name. The way to do that is to sue for defamation but that doesn't seem to have happened here, yet anyway. If someone falsely accused me of sexual abuse I'd be coming with guns blazing.

like a lot of court cases its one persons interpretation versus another. who is telling the truth, who knows.

Amalgam

All the statements about the 'reliability' of a certain individual and their testimony, are by that person.

Trial by Twitter/Facebook, that'll work..

wokingvoter

Based only on what I read about the case, if what she alleges didn't actually occur, I do believe that she imagines it did occur.
Either way it's tragic for a lot of people involved

Dubl07

wokingvoter wrote: »

Based only on what I read about the case, if what she alleges didn't actually occur, I do believe that she imagines it did occur.
Either way it's tragic for a lot of people involved

There are dead babies - nobody imagined them into existence.

Babies require two parents.

For an 11 year old to give birth, abuse took place.

It is tragic for the baby who was murdered.
It is tragic for the little girl who was abused and traumatised.
It is not tragic for criminals (whoever they may be) who have avoided justice for for decades. It may be traumatic, but that's on their own heads.

whatismyname

Dubl07 wrote: »

There are dead babies - nobody imagined them into existence.

Babies require two parents.

For an 11 year old to give birth, abuse took place.

It is tragic for the baby who was murdered.
It is tragic for the little girl who was abused and traumatised.
It is not tragic for criminals (whoever they may be) who have avoided justice for for decades. It may be traumatic, but that's on their own heads.

Thank you Dubl07.

That needed said, in my opinion, and no matter what the full circumstances, the above is very true, and needs remembering.

My name is URL

Muahahaha wrote: »

Cynthia Owen responds to the article in todays Examiner

That guy is off the hook now whether he's guilty of anything or not.

Idiotic to mention his name publicly in the first place, and very inept and irresponsible of the journalists who repeated what was said.

There's no way a fair trial could happen now

whatismyname

My name is URL wrote: »

That guy is off the hook now whether he's guilty of anything or not.

Idiotic to mention his name publicly in the first place, and very inept and irresponsible of the journalists who repeated what was said.

There's no way a fair trial could happen now

I agree.

Although, at the same, in regards to Cynthia naming her alleged abusers publicly, it seems crazy how long she's had to fight for investigations but gotten nowhere, so I'd imagine a chance that she was left feeling that it was the only option .

Egan2012

I have just read this story and it's absolutely horrendous . What was going through their heads must have been terrible if it forced them all to commit suicide

Vic_08

My name is URL wrote: »

That guy is off the hook now whether he's guilty of anything or not.

Idiotic to mention his name publicly in the first place, and very inept and irresponsible of the journalists who repeated what was said.

There's no way a fair trial could happen now

Yes, how stupid of her to do that, did she not know that 43 years after a crime is the magic number for the Irish justice system to do it's job and seek justice for murdered babies and child rape victims. :rolleyes:

wokingvoter

Dubl07 wrote: »

There are dead babies - nobody imagined them into existence.

Babies require two parents.

For an 11 year old to give birth, abuse took place.

It is tragic for the baby who was murdered.
It is tragic for the little girl who was abused and traumatised.
It is not tragic for criminals (whoever they may be) who have avoided justice for for decades. It may be traumatic, but that's on their own heads.

I think there is one dead baby? Hardly evidence of a paedophile ring?

wokingvoter

So far as I can gather these are the proven facts
Cynthia Owen was raped by person unkown and had a baby as a result, Noelleen, who was murdered by persons unkown and dumped in an alley by persons unkown and buried in Glasnevin.
Is it not the truth that there has been extensive enquiries into Cynthia Owens allegations over the last 12 or so years and no evidence has been found?
She alleges more murdered babies are buried in a particular garden.
That garden is being excavated at the moment and presumably if human remains are there , they will be uncovered.
If there was a paedophile ring, was Cynthia Owens family the only victim?
Are there any other proven facts I'm missing?

strandroad

You're conflating the Dalkey case with the Crumlin case (excavations taking place now). Cynthia Owens's siblings confirmed ongoing abuse by people from outside the family, as her sister described in a detailed statement before her suicide. Her naming of the suspects was in attempt to get other victims she's only anecdotally aware of to come forward officially. A number of people are under investigation for a number of years and in a historical rape case these facts are as good as you can get so she may never get her justice. She's asking for the baby remains to be exhumed and returned to her, and a DNA test might determine the father.
Regardless of any particular person's involvement, garda behaviour blocking and discouraging the victims, not collecting evidence, losing evidence and files etc certainly goes beyond incompetence in this case and merits some form of investigation on its own.

stoplooklisten

Going public is the only way that lady will ever see any justice.

wokingvoter

I see. Thank you. I'm very uncomfortable with trial by media. As horrendous as her childhood appears to have been , these accused men have no realistic way to defend themselves from these accusations of inhuman barbarism.
Taking a defamation case would most likely go against any of them either way.
How do you prove you weren't in a paedophile ring 50 years ago?
I'm open to correction but in defamation it is up to the litigant to prove that an allegation is untrue?
Added to that having your face on the TV and in the papers daily for weeks and the "guilty until proved innocent" mentality that pervades society
Topped of with the "no smoke without fire" reaction if defamation is proved, I certainly wouldn't persue the accuser through the Courts if my name was included on the list.

Muahahaha

My name is URL wrote: »

That guy is off the hook now whether he's guilty of anything or not.

Idiotic to mention his name publicly in the first place, and very inept and irresponsible of the journalists who repeated what was said.

There's no way a fair trial could happen now

I dunno, his defence lawyers would definitely argue that for sure but the last person to pull such a stunt along those lines and get away with it was Charlie Haughey.

The likes of Graham Dwyer and Sean Fitzpatrick have both claimed they couldn't get a fair trial due to media coverage of them but in both instances the judges said the trial goes ahead.

I know it wasn't a good idea to publically name her abuser but judges can and do direct juries to disregard anything they've heard in the media. Also barristers have the opportunity to select and reject jurors till both defence and prosecution agree on a jury.

What I'd love to know about this case is why a file was sent to the DPP no less than 8 times and each time the DPP decided not to prosecute. What that means is that on 8 occasions Cynthia's testimony was found to be credible enough by both Gardai and consultant psychiatrists but on every single occasion when it got to the DPP the case was halted. A mate of mine has a theory that there was foul play involved- he reckons some senior employee in the DPP was influencing the outcome to prevent a trial going ahead. He thinks this person may have retired recently and therefore the case is now set to be blown open again.

IMO it also raises the question as to why people who have a case referred to the DPP cannot get a reason from them as to why they are not proceeding. This old chestnut of 'DPP discretion' needs to be stopped, in any proper functioning democracy the citizen should at least be told why instead of them saying 'because we say so' and thats that.

I also find Alan Shatters involvement here strange. He was Cynthia Owen's solicitor when he was on the opposition benches but as soon as he became Minister for Justice she claims he did little or nothing to advance her case.

The whole thing is bizarre. If the allegations are true then we could be witnessing one of the biggest cover-ups the State has even been involved in.

strandroad

You may find this timeline useful:
http://www.broadsheet.ie/2016/01/12/a-dalkey-archive/

So far Cynthia Owens has had success in proving large areas of her story. When it started and she was still known as "Niamh" her family denied any abuse, that she was ever pregnant and suggested that she's making it all up after attending regression therapy.

Muahahaha

wokingvoter wrote: »

I see. Thank you. I'm very uncomfortable with trial by media. As horrendous as her childhood appears to have been , these accused men have no realistic way to defend themselves from these accusations of inhuman barbarism.
Taking a defamation case would most likely go against any of them either way.
How do you prove you weren't in a paedophile ring 50 years ago?
I'm open to correction but in defamation it is up to the litigant to prove that an allegation is untrue?
Added to that having your face on the TV and in the papers daily for weeks and the "guilty until proved innocent" mentality that pervades society
Topped of with the "no smoke without fire" reaction if defamation is proved, I certainly wouldn't persue the accuser through the Courts if my name was included on the list.

Thats the thing about our terrible defamation laws- they are extremely plaintiff friendly. Cynthia has made the allegation so under our defamation laws the onus is on her to prove the facts of the case, not on the accused to prove that they aren't true.

Thats why I said further back the thread that if the retired Garda is innocent why is he not suing her for defamation and instead giving interviews to the media to "clear his name". Legally the retired Garda has the upper hand here because the defamation laws are on his side. Yet he was named on Facebook publically last January and now here in May he is doing an interview for the Irish Examiner. His first port of call should be a good defamation lawyer, not the media.

Dodge

I know it's not really on the scale of such serious issues but it does show that he's not afriad to lie...

https://twitter.com/Paulmcgrath5/status/727475748173430785

https://twitter.com/Paulmcgrath5/status/727475998564999168

whatismyname

Dodge wrote: »

I know it's not really on the scale of such serious issues but it does show that he's not afriad to lie...

I'm no journalist, and don't know a hell of a lot about journalism, but as a lay person, I can imagine that if I was doing an article, particularly of this type a, which said 'Among the players he mentored and remained friends with was Irish football legend Paul McGrath.' I'd be contacting the other person to check the accuracy of that statement before publishing it.

I'd consider that all the more important given the context in which the above was used.

strandroad

Why a Cork newspaper in the first place?

whatismyname

mhge wrote: »

Why a Cork newspaper in the first place?

As far as I know, it's primarily distributed in the Munste Region, but is no longer focused on that area and describes itself as an Irish national daily newspaper.

strandroad

Yes sorry, what I meant is that they would have the Irish Times and the Indo just around the corner, easier to contact, visit etc?

whatismyname

mhge wrote: »

Yes sorry, what I meant is that they would have the Irish Times and the Indo just around the corner, easier to contact, visit etc?

Ah yeah, gotcha, and yeah personally I'd say there's very good reason for that.