The Dalkey House of Horrors

JupiterKid

I was surfing the web in these wee hours when I came across this very sad story about the suicide of a young woman in 2005.

Does anyone remember the Dalkey "house of horrors" case - where a new born baby was allegedly murdered and found by two boys in a plastic bag in a lane way in 1973? Why has justice not been served here? Three members of this family have taken their own life because of the appalling suffering they endured as children.

My blood ran cold when I read the article below.:(

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/a-beautiful-life-lost-to-utter-hell-470344.html

Alias G

Good god, that story is just heart wrenching. I can't understand how the Gardai have been so dismissive.

Hersheys

As a sufferer of child abuse, certainly not to the same extent as the poor people in this article suffered, this article makes me sick & just re-enforces my opinion that I shouldn't tell people if this will be the reaction of the gardai, and worse, my family.

RIP to all involved. I can relate to your thoughts & hope your suffering has ended.

wmpdd3

it seems to bear a resemblence to ther stories of rings, the only explaination is that members of the ring can keep this from going further.

JupiterKid

It really is an almost unbelievable story of the most vile abuse imaginable. What stuns me is that no-one was ever convicted and jailed for these crimes and yet people in Dalkey knew what was going on in that house.

SEPT 23 1989

The baby getting stabbed with the knitting needles

that part of the story stayed with me for a long time:(:(

The fcuking animals who did this must have powerful friends:mad:

P_1

Good grief I'm not sure what's the more sickening, the abuse the poor children had to endure or the cover up of it all.

My name is URL

Alan Shatter, TD, has said: "I am gravely concerned about the lack of prosecutions in this case. It seems to be from published information, there is a prima facie case to be brought alleging murder, assault and sexual abuse."

It'd be interesting to see what his thoughts are on it now, given that he's in a position to do something about it.

steddyeddy

I drink around Dalkey and hang around with people from Dalkey/ballybrack area and I heard. The case mentioned a few times. Why isn't child abuse an enforced crime in Ireland?

steddyeddy

Hersheys wrote: »

As a sufferer of child abuse, certainly not to the same extent as the poor people in this article suffered, this article makes me sick & just re-enforces my opinion that I shouldn't tell people if this will be the reaction of the gardai, and worse, my family.

RIP to all involved. I can relate to your thoughts & hope your suffering has ended.

Same story here man. I often thought about whether I would advise people to tell the gaurds at all.

Froyo

What a tragedy. So sad.

Sadly, a case such as this would require some actual detective work.

This country has been lumbered with AGS.

GLaDOS

I feel ill after reading that

Odysseus

steddyeddy wrote: »

Same story here man. I often thought about whether I would advise people to tell the gaurds at all.

Yeah, I don't agree with having to report all offenses. A person should able to tell me of their experience and once their is no current risk to any minors, if they wish it to stay with me if should stay there. I have seen to many people forced to go down a road they do not wish to go, or maybe are not even able to do so.

Dodge

Can people tone down this type of stuff

This country has been lumbered with AGS.

If recent history has taught us anything, its that these type of atrocities (and cover ups) can happen anywhere. They're disgusting, and of course I'd like to see action taken, but the problem isn't down to where they took place.

steddyeddy

Dodge wrote: »

Can people tone down this type of stuff



If recent history has taught us anything, its that these type of atrocities (and cover ups) can happen anywhere. They're disgusting, and of course I'd like to see action taken, but the problem isn't down to where they took place.

Sweet jesus when will Ireland wake up.

Fratton Fred

Alias G wrote: »

Good god, that story is just heart wrenching. I can't understand how the Gardai have been so dismissive.

I haven't read the book (one has been written) but I believe one of the girls recalls being taken from her bed and walked up the road in the middle of the night to a building with steps in the front.

I'm not sure if it is stated directly, but there it is believed locally that this building was Dalkey Garda Station.

Larbre34

My mother got very upset when this story came up again in '05. As a local and a contemporary of the young woman at the time she remembered the baby deaths well.

She told me about the whispers and rumours and the valley of the squinting windows activity which surrounded the deaths and said the dogs on the street knew substantially what had taken place but due to a moral paralysis, pride and face keeping typical of the time, nobody wanted to go creating too many waves. It was too horrific for the sensibilities of people at the time, so it was just glossed over.

She spoke too about the orphanages, care homes, industrial and reform schools the dark histories of which have been laid bare in the last 20 years. She said her father, my grandfather would have known very well what life in them was like, and that kids would be threatened with being sent there in only a half-joking way. But, nobody would stick their neck out, no one would question the church/state/police/institutions, so the misery of kids and those with intellectual problems continued for generations.

My mother feels a huge sense of guilt on the part of hers and previous generations for the complicity in protecting the abuse that went on through silence and inaction. She feels that as horrific as the revelations have been, it has been necessary to lay it all bare end all the secrets and expose the guilty and the complicit alike, in for the country to be honest with itself and begin a long healing, as well as a modern vigilance.

Some people talk about the good old days, but they were no such thing. Whatever our problems these days at least they are overt and fair game for scrutiny and debate and the morals of the squinting windows are, for the most part, yesterdays news.

steddyeddy

Larbre34 wrote: »

My mother got very upset when this story came up again in '05. As a local and a contemporary of the young woman at the time she remembered the baby deaths well.

She told me about the whispers and rumours and the valley of the squinting windows activity which surrounded the deaths and said the dogs on the street knew substantially what had taken place but due to a moral paralysis, pride and face keeping typical of the time, nobody wanted to go creating too many waves. It was too horrific for the sensibilities of people at the time, so it was just glossed over.

She spoke too about the orphanages, care homes, industrial and reform schools the dark histories of which have been laid bare in the last 20 years. She said her father, my grandfather would have known very well what life in them was like, and that kids would be threatened with being sent there in only a half-joking way. But, nobody would stick their neck out, no one would question the church/state/police/institutions, so the misery of kids and those with intellectual problems continued for generations.

My mother feels a huge sense of guilt on the part of hers and previous generations for the complicity in protecting the abuse that went on through silence and inaction. She feels that as horrific as the revelations have been, it has been necessary to lay it all bare end all the secrets and expose the guilty and the complicit alike, in for the country to be honest with itself and begin a long healing, as well as a modern vigilance.

Some people talk about the good old days, but they were no such thing. Whatever our problems these days at least they are overt and fair game for scrutiny and debate and the morals of the squinting windows are, for the most part, yesterdays news.

In fairness she was an ordinary person what could she have done. Often those who spoke out were more vilified than the abusers.

Dodge

steddyeddy wrote: »

Sweet jesus when will Ireland wake up.

Not really sure what you mean with this comment (as it quotes me)

steddyeddy

Dodge wrote: »

Not really sure what you mean with this comment (as it quotes me)

I mean the ags have been ivolved in more cover up of child abuse and child death than most first workd countries. As a victim of ags child abuse cover up I found your plea to tone down criticisim of the gaurds very offensive considering the story were talking about. Surely you want everyone involved including the gaurds brought to justice?

Dodge

steddyeddy wrote: »

I mean the ags have been ivolved in more cover up of child abuse and child death than most first workd countries. As a victim of ags child abuse cover up I found your plea to tone down criticisim of the gaurds very offensive considering the story were talking about. Surely you want everyone involved including the gaurds brought to justice?

Sorry, I didn't say abuse never happened in Ireland, nor did I say cover ups didn't happen in Ireland. I merely pointed out this type of disgusting/disgraceful/horrific behaviour isn't limited to Ireland. In no way did I try to limit criticism of the guards in this instance.

Anybody involved in the abuse of children, or the cover up of same, is a digusting blight on whatever society they belong to. I hope the people involved get all the justice they deserve.

That applies to Dalkey, and everywhere else around thee world.

steddyeddy

Dodge wrote: »

Sorry, I didn't say abuse never happened in Ireland, nor did I say cover ups didn't happen in Ireland. I merely pointed out this type of disgusting/disgraceful/horrific behaviour isn't limited to Ireland. In no way did I try to limit criticism of the guards in this instance.

Anybody involved in the abuse of children, or the cover up of same, is a digusting blight on whatever society they belong to. I hope the people involved get all the justice they deserve.

That applies to Dalkey, and everywhere else around thee world.

Well I agree child abuse isn't limted to Ireland at all but some of the gaurds in this country are worse than others.

steddyeddy

Dodge wrote: »

Sorry, I didn't say abuse never happened in Ireland, nor did I say cover ups didn't happen in Ireland. I merely pointed out this type of disgusting/disgraceful/horrific behaviour isn't limited to Ireland. In no way did I try to limit criticism of the guards in this instance.

Anybody involved in the abuse of children, or the cover up of same, is a digusting blight on whatever society they belong to. I hope the people involved get all the justice they deserve.

That applies to Dalkey, and everywhere else around thee world.

Listen I apoligise Dodge I completely overreacted to your post. I'm just sick of this thing coming up again and again. We never seem to get justice.

Dodge

steddyeddy wrote: »

Listen I apoligise Dodge I completely overreacted to your post. I'm just sick of this thing coming up again and again. We never seem to get justice.

Its no bother to me. I don't want to derail the subject. Too serious for that, so apologies there

steddyeddy

Dodge wrote: »

Its no bother to me. I don't want to derail the subject. Too serious for that, so apologies there

Thank you Its me that should apologise. I myself heard the story around Dalkey/Ballbrack a few times. One of the sickening things I heard about the story is that people didnt have as much sympathy because the kids were rich. As if their parents money made what they went through any easier

Fratton Fred

steddyeddy wrote: »

Thank you Its me that should apologise. I myself heard the story around Dalkey/Ballbrack a few times. One of the sickening things I heard about the story is that people didnt have as much sympathy because the kids were rich. As if their parents money made what they went through any easier

Ive never heard that, in those days I'm not sure Dalkey was as affluent as it is today.

I have heard that some of those implicated are still around the village. Although I'm sure there is a degree of idle gossip involved in that.

steddyeddy

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Ive never heard that, in those days I'm not sure Dalkey was as affluent as it is today.

I have heard that some of those implicated are still around the village. Although I'm sure there is a degree of idle gossip involved in that.

Well I only heard it once or twice and it was given as a reason for a lack of sympathy by the gaurds. As you say it most certainly was gossip but it is sickening that this is continuing.

happyoutscan

That is easily one of the most disturbing articles I have ever read. I'm speechless.

dark crystal

What a horrendeous story

One wonders why Alan Shatter can't now press for an investigation into this case?

steddyeddy

I wonder would many people sign a letter to minister shatter to that affect?

dark crystal

steddyeddy wrote: »

I wonder would many people sign a letter to minister shatter to that affect?

I certainly would.

JupiterKid

I don't believe the family involved in the Dalkey "house of horrors" were in any way rich or well to do - but it does seem that they had powerful connections locally which helped the cover up of the most vile crimes imaginable - rape of small children, infanticide, prolonged neglect, emotional abuse and prolonged sexual abuse.

Ireland in the 1960s and 1970s was a much, much poorer and less developed society than today. Dalkey had its pockets of deprivation and poverty - hard as it might be to imagine today.

What shocks me though is how the abuses and baby deaths went unpunished - surely the evidence that has emerged over the past 20 years has warranted action by the Gardai? Even though the parents at the centre of the abuses are dead - many of the other abusers are still alive and at large.

porsche959

There were quite a few articles about this case in the media in the 2005/2006 period. The disturbing questions are, as other posters already said, why it only came to light then and why even now no-one has been charged with anything. The father is now deceased but if there was indeed a ring in operation others possibly involved are still alive.

NegativeCreep

Is this the same case where the woman wrote a book about it, went on the Late Late Show, and then it was proved that she was lying? Or am i thinking of something else?

amdublin

NegativeCreep wrote: »

Is this the same case where the woman wrote a book about it, went on the Late Late Show, and then it was proved that she was lying? Or am i thinking of something else?

No. It is certainly not this lady.

And I cannot recall anyone the scenario you have described applies to.

porsche959

amdublin wrote: »

No. It is certainly not this lady.

And I cannot recall anyone the scenario you have described applies to.

With the Dalkey case IIRC some of the older children in the family denied that anything untoward had been going on. However journalists who have examined the case in detail are in little doubt that 'Niamh' was telling the truth.

NegativeCreep

amdublin wrote: »

No. It is certainly not this lady.

And I cannot recall anyone the scenario you have described applies to.

It's probably not this case then. Was there a book written about this though? I'd be interested in reading that.

JupiterKid

NegativeCreep wrote: »

It's probably not this case then. Was there a book written about this though? I'd be interested in reading that.

Yes, the book is titled Living With Evil and is written by one of the survivors of the abuse, Cynthia Owen.

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/7965408-living-with-evil


Here an youtube extract of her Late late show interview:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDNRLjYt5LE

horsemaster

Incredibly sad when I read that. There was so much suffering at the young age when they should be treated like angels. Nobody has to go through this. My heart goes out to the victims. We can't do much about the past but we can definitely do something about the present. This is the first time I have read this story and it just makes me feel how fortunate I am in my life. Its been a while but RIP. Lets make sure such things never happen in our midst.

SwanSky

Anyone who thinks that "the kids were rich" hasn't a clue about the family or what was going on in that house, so don't mind what you're being told there OP.

Tessa and her siblings were raised dirt poor in a council house literally two streets away from the main road that runs through Dalkey village. It's a tiny estate called Whites Villas.

And no, it was not a situation that the dogs in the street knew about. What neighbours knew was that the parents were alco's, the father was never out of the local pub, and the children were obviously neglected. That's a far cry from knowing that systematic incest is going on night and day.

SwanSky

NegativeCreep wrote: »

Is this the same case where the woman wrote a book about it, went on the Late Late Show, and then it was proved that she was lying? Or am i thinking of something else?

This is the case involving Cynthia Owen, and she most certainly was not lying, and nor obviously was ever proven to have been.

NegativeCreep

NegativeCreep wrote: »

Is this the same case where the woman wrote a book about it, went on the Late Late Show, and then it was proved that she was lying? Or am i thinking of something else?

I Think that was a book by a woman named "Kathy" re abuse in an orphanage, there was a book written in reaction to her claims callwd "Kathys real story" and she was challanged about these claims on Ireland AM which led to her striking someone live on air, this could be the case you mean

Witchie

dark crystal wrote: »

I certainly would.

Me too. So disturbing that those poor kids went through that and salt being rubbed into the wound of nothing being done about it.

Madam_X

As far as I know, Dalkey's affluence is a relatively new phenomenon.

I remember some of Cynthia's siblings being in denial of this horror - I've often heard of that. It might seem so callous and cruel, but actually... it's probably a psychological reaction to bury the trauma as a form of self protection... to the point of forgetting it/truly believing it never happened.

NegativeCreep

Deleted User wrote: »

I Think that was a book by a woman named "Kathy" re abuse in an orphanage, there was a book written in reaction to her claims callwd "Kathys real story" and she was challanged about these claims on Ireland AM which led to her striking someone live on air, this could be the case you mean

Yep, that's what I was thinking of. Thanks, Thought I was going crazy for a minute

JupiterKid

Those children were literally put through hell.

If hell really does exist, then the parents are burning there for eternity given what they did to their children and indeed grandchildren too.

It really does astound me that no-one has ever been convicted and prosecuted for these crimes - I wonder if it's because the alleged paedophile ring who Cynthia and her siblings were abused by may involve some very well known or important/influential people? Or is it just complete incompetence?

The whole thing stinks of a scandal of the highest order.:mad:

steddyeddy

Madam_X wrote: »

As far as I know, Dalkey's affluence is a relatively new phenomenon.

I remember some of Cynthia's siblings being in denial of this horror - I've often heard of that. It might seem so callous and cruel, but actually... it's probably a psychological reaction to bury the trauma as a form of self protection... to the point of forgetting it/truly believing it never happened.

That often happens. You'll always get one sibling who deals with it by pretending everything is ok.

JupiterKid

I wonder if this case will be re-opened by the authorities?

Certainly if any outstanding case of criminality is crying out for justice to be served, it's the Dalkey House of Horrors.

steddyeddy

JupiterKid wrote: »

I wonder if this case will be re-opened by the authorities?

Certainly if any outstanding case of criminality is crying out for justice to be served, it's the Dalkey House of Horrors.

I wonder if the gaurds that facilitated this are still working there?

JupiterKid

steddyeddy wrote: »

I wonder if the gaurds that facilitated this are still working there?

That sounds like a very serious allegation.

I wonder if the house in question has been demolished? I would like to think it has been - or if not, it deserves to be.

I think the Gardai excavated the garden about a decade ago for evidence of infant remains but found nothing.

Boombastic

This is a terrible story and cover up. I'm not sure where some people got the idea that no body (baby) was found?







From the Sunday World reporting on it:

This week, Garda Commissioner Fachtna Murphy refused a request to have the investigation probed by the Cold Case Unit despite strong suggestions of a cover-up detailed today in the Sunday World.

We can reveal how a string of complaints have been made about a senior officer involved in the probe who is connected to the case despite the fact that authorities have been alerted that he was a one time friend of Peter Murphy Snr and socialises with a number of the men accused of ritual abuse of a child - seriously compromising his involvement in the investigation.

We can also reveal how official Garda reports in the case may have been forged, vital evidence has gone missing without trace and how officers took eight years to interview a key witness about the night of the murder and then failed to get him to sign his statement, rendering it useless.

From the OP's link

It is a known fact that some members of the gardai in Dalkey were friends of Peter Murphy, who had told them years previously that Theresa and Niamh were mad. They believed him and liked him. They drank with him in the Queen's bar and the town hall several times a week for years. These victims have not received justice.

This whole thing stinks of a cover up, but lets start doubting the victim