Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

The 2013 In Between Grand Slam Thread

Options
12829303234

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 868 ✭✭✭Gerry91


    To be fair he played his best tennis ever at the Olympics and that was when he completely went all out aggressive!

    He hasn't replicated that style since but then again he's won two slams since so it's no issue


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,980 ✭✭✭Slashermcguirk


    First of all, Murray fans calm down. I don't dislike Murray, if anything I have huge admiration for what he has achieved. I just don't like his style of tennis and his childish tantrums on court. I do appreciate how good a player he is and off the court I have found him to be more endearing.

    What I was simply saying is I don't understand people putting him in the same league as Djokovic and Nadal. This is so far from reality for anybody who regularly watches the game.

    Can he beat them on their day, yes he can of course but his achievements to date are so far behind the others. He deserved to win the Wimbledon final, no question about that but there was a big difference in difficultly of the draw. Verdasco has done next to nothing in a slam since Australian open 2008 ! Berdych who you claim to be an easier opponent has beaten Murray more times than he has lost to him !

    My intention was not to say that Murray did'nt deserve his grand slam titles but that people need to face the facts that Djokovic and Nadal are far better players. Their respective achievements / stats to date do not lie. Of course Murray can compete with them on any given day but not consistently and not across all surfaces.

    The one other thing, Olympic medal in tennis is a bit of a joke. It should'nt even be in the olympics and is certainly nowhere near as difficult to win as a slam.


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,929 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    The one other thing, Olympic medal in tennis is a bit of a joke. It should'nt even be in the olympics and is certainly nowhere near as difficult to win as a slam.

    How is it easier to win? There's only the top 50 or so players in it so you could argue it's harder as you get no easy matches against people ranked 150 or qualifiers or any of that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,741 ✭✭✭Mousewar


    How is it easier to win? There's only the top 50 or so players in it so you could argue it's harder as you get no easy matches against people ranked 150 or qualifiers or any of that.

    Less matches, shorter games, and no one cares as much as they do in a slam.
    On the other hand, it is only once every four years so you could argue it's harder on that basis I suppose.


  • Registered Users, Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,342 Mod ✭✭✭✭yerwanthere123


    Gerry91 wrote: »
    And the ridiculous hate he gets is not mainly to him being a "Pusher", most don't have a clue what it means. Look at the bandwagon that goes against him every summer for 2 weeks. It's cos he's "boring" and "miserable" like as if it matters, he's a bloody tennis player :rolleyes:

    Don't forget the fact he also "hates England" :pac:


  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,929 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    Mousewar wrote: »
    Less matches, shorter games, and no one cares as much as they do in a slam.
    On the other hand, it is only once every four years so you could argue it's harder on that basis I suppose.

    I don't know how you can say people care less than they do in a Slam. Did you not watch the Olympic tennis last year? Raonic vs Tsonga and Delpo vs Federer were as intense as any matches I've seen at Slams. Delpo and Federer lasted four hours and 26 minutes.
    The bronze medals Delpo and Azarenka won seemed to mean as much to them as their Slam wins did. Djokovic was apparently devastated for a few weeks after losing the bronze medal match.


  • Registered Users, Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,342 Mod ✭✭✭✭yerwanthere123


    The one other thing, Olympic medal in tennis is a bit of a joke. It should'nt even be in the olympics and is certainly nowhere near as difficult to win as a slam.

    You can't take anything away from his Olympic win. All the world's best players (bar Nadal) were there. He beat Djokovic and Federer to win the gold, the latter in three straight sets. Fair enough, Fed was probably a bit tired from his semi, but he was still highly motivated and on his best surface, which he had won his 17th grand slam on just a few weeks previously.

    It matters not one jot if it's "not as difficult to win as a slam", he won it fair and square.


  • Registered Users, Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,342 Mod ✭✭✭✭yerwanthere123


    Mousewar wrote: »
    Less matches, shorter games, and no one cares as much as they do in a slam.
    On the other hand, it is only once every four years so you could argue it's harder on that basis I suppose.

    Absolute nonsense. Federer wanted the gold badly. Djokovic named winning the Olympic gold as one of his two main aims at the beginning of 2012. Delpo was immensely proud to win his bronze also.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,741 ✭✭✭Mousewar


    I don't know how you can say people care less than they do in a Slam. Did you not watch the Olympic tennis last year? Raonic vs Tsonga and Delpo vs Federer were as intense as any matches I've seen at Slams. Delpo and Federer lasted four hours and 26 minutes.
    The bronze medals Delpo and Azarenka won seemed to mean as much to them as their Slam wins did. Djokovic was apparently devastated for a few weeks after losing the bronze medal match.

    Perhaps. But it's massively below a slam in every player's estimation. Certainly for Federer, it was a priority given his career but I think even he said he'd take another slam over a gold medal.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,288 ✭✭✭mickmackey1


    It's blindingly obvious Murray is a level below the big 3, no explanation needed.

    But fair play to him, he snuck in for his couple of majors when the others were below par for whatever reason, and that's the history of sport; even at the height of Tiger's dominance, several journeymen eked out a major.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 12,024 ✭✭✭✭Rjd2


    Mousewar wrote: »
    Perhaps. But it's massively below a slam in every player's estimation. Certainly for Federer, it was a priority given his career but I think even he said he'd take another slam over a gold medal.

    It matters. Novak was in tears when he lost in the semis at 2008.

    3.jpg
    6.jpg

    Roger Federer was in tears; Juan Martin Del Potro was inconsolable.

    They had just played their hearts out for four hours and 26 minutes.

    They had, between them, racked up 115 winners and 35 aces. They had fended off break points by the handful and they had presented the Centre Court crowd with not only the best match of the tournament, but one of the best matches of the year. And yet somebody had to lose.

    In the end, with one last backhand into the net, it was Del Potro who drew the short straw, going out 3-6, 7-6, 19-17, and he could hardly bear it. He trudged to the net and sobbed on Federer’s shoulder.

    Federer, who was already in dabbing his eyes in sheer relief, hugged him and put his arm round him as they walked to the umpire’s chair.

    Federer’s dream of a singles gold medal was still alive but he knew how lousy Del Potro felt – after all, Del Potro had inflicted the same pain on him in the 2009 US Open final.

    “To be honest, to lose a match like that hurts a lot. It’s very hard to lose a match like that,” Del Potro said, trying hard to compose himself before the world’s media and before he had to prepare for his mixed doubles quarter-final with Gisela Dulko. “It was a very tough match. Someone has to win and today it was his turn; at the US Open it was my turn. Now I have to try and do my best in doubles for Gisela.”

    It came down to who would blink first. That honour went to Del Potro who played a shocker of a service game and was finally broken. It had taken the Fed three hours and 12 minutes to find a way past the big man’s defences but finally – finally – his patience had paid off: he was 10-9 ahead and just had to hold serve to put himself through to the final.

    But if Del Potro had blinked, Federer now applied the blindfold. He had skipped through his service games with relative ease until this point but now, just when he needed to batten down the hatches, he dropped his serve to love. For just five minutes the mighty Fed had had one foot in the final but now it was 10-10 and we were back to square one.

    By now, people were thumbing through the record books. What was the Olympic record for the longest match? Oh, yes, it was just the other

    day: Tsonga against Raonic, three hours and 56 minutes. We broke that barrier and it was still only 15-15. Well what was the longest set Fed had ever played? That was back in 2009 in the Wimbledon final and he won that one 16-14 to break Andy Roddick’s heart and win his 15th grand slam title. Just for good measure, that five set match lasted four hours and 16 minutes; after four hours and 16 minutes of this cracker, we were only at 17-17, 0-15. And this was only a three setter.

    For those of a statistical bent, the longest men’s match played over three sets in the Open Era (history in tennis only started in 1968,

    clearly) was Rafael Nadal beating Novak Djokovic in the Madrid semi-final in 2009. That took four hours and three minutes. Pah! Call that a marathon? Federer’s third set too two hours and 43 minutes.

    There had been times in the match – early on, while Del Potro was winning the first set – when the Swiss had looked unable to handle the power and precision of his rival’s thumping groundstrokes.

    Suddenly he looked little and frail beside the 6ft 6ins giant from Tandil and it seemed for all the world as if it was destiny that he would never win an Olympic singles medal. Arnaud Di Pasquale had done for him in the bronze medal play-off in Sydney, Tomas Berdych beat him in Athens and James Blake stopped his run in Beijing. Surely Del Potro was not going to shatter his dreams at the All England Club, too. Not this time. Federer was on a mission to claim a medal and calling on every ounce of the experience of winning 17 grand slam trophies, he hung on and finally got his reward on his second match point. And it was blindingly obvious that reaching the final meant the world to him.

    “Emotionally obviously I'm extremely drained from serving against a match so many times, basically being down in the score for the entire match except the one time where I served for it,” Federer said, now dry-eyed and looking remarkably good for a 30-year-old bloke who had just run himself into the ground for an afternoon.

    “It was obviously nerve wracking. Obviously being aware, as well, it's the first medal for Switzerland during this Olympics, it was a big thing that carried me through. Just the level of play throughout was amazing, you know, especially from Juan Martin. I've never seen him play so well, to be honest, from start to finish, particularly on grass. He should be very proud of his performance.

    “I felt very bad for him at net. It was an emotional hug we sort of gave each other. It's not over for him yet. I hope he can make the turnaround and play a good bronze medal match.

    “I definitely got a sense that this was something special we were both going through, with Juan Martin. The deeper we went into the match, the more I thought, Wow, this is so cool to be part of a match like this. for me, yeah, it was somewhat equal to a Grand Slam final for sure. The emotions I felt were as strong as winning a grand slam almost. But of course you have to hopefully save some for Sunday so you can't go overly crazy. But I was very, very touched at the end.”

    And just to think, we have all of this to go through again on Sunday for the final. Best get an early night; it is going to be a big weekend.

    The London 2012 Olympic tennis is taking place at Wimbledon. Visit the ITF Olympics site for full scores, draws and the London 2012 site for video content, venue and schedule information.

    http://www.wimbledon.com/en_GB/news/articles/2012-08-03/201208031344004879247.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,024 ✭✭✭✭Rjd2



    But fair play to him, he snuck in for his couple of majors when the others were below par for whatever reason, and that's the history of sport; even at the height of Tiger's dominance, several journeymen eked out a major.



    Players like Benneteau,Robredo Querrey are journeymen, not people who have won 2 slams and an olympic gold medal in a golden era for tennis.


  • Registered Users Posts: 214 ✭✭WaterLily.


    Gerry91 wrote: »
    He only won the US Open cos the wind sure ;)

    That's the best one! Honestly I couldn't believe people were serious when I heard them saying he won the US Open because it was windy!!

    An in terms of the Olympics, the players care... a lot. People who say they don't matter obviously didn't watch Delpo and Djokovic's bronze match, the immense pride on Juan's face said it all at the end with his medal. The chance to represent your country on a world stage and bring home a medal means so much to them, how many people on the planet can say that they have won a medal at the olympics?! I remember hearing Murray talking about how in the 2008 Olympics he was so excited and went mad taking photos with all the athletes, collecting stickers and flags and got too caught up in the atmosphere; then he lost in R1 and he said he was completely devastated. He said he felt like he had let himself and his country down, he so desperately desperately wanted a medal.

    Yes it's different to the slams but different doesn't mean it's any less meaningful to the players.


  • Registered Users Posts: 54,912 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    First of all, Murray fans calm down. I don't dislike Murray, if anything I have huge admiration for what he has achieved. I just don't like his style of tennis and his childish tantrums on court. I do appreciate how good a player he is and off the court I have found him to be more endearing.

    What I was simply saying is I don't understand people putting him in the same league as Djokovic and Nadal. This is so far from reality for anybody who regularly watches the game.

    Can he beat them on their day, yes he can of course but his achievements to date are so far behind the others. He deserved to win the Wimbledon final, no question about that but there was a big difference in difficultly of the draw. Verdasco has done next to nothing in a slam since Australian open 2008 ! Berdych who you claim to be an easier opponent has beaten Murray more times than he has lost to him !

    My intention was not to say that Murray did'nt deserve his grand slam titles but that people need to face the facts that Djokovic and Nadal are far better players. Their respective achievements / stats to date do not lie. Of course Murray can compete with them on any given day but not consistently and not across all surfaces.

    The one other thing, Olympic medal in tennis is a bit of a joke. It should'nt even be in the olympics and is certainly nowhere near as difficult to win as a slam.

    Take away clay for Nadal and he's on 5 slams. It's swings and roundabouts. Murray has lost in what, 5 slams now? Nadal has lost in 5 I think. You saying that Nadal and Novak are far better is a stretch. I would lean with both, but Murray at his best is a serious threat to both of them at their best. He matches up so so well against Novak in particular.


  • Registered Users Posts: 54,912 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    It's blindingly obvious Murray is a level below the big 3, no explanation neer.

    Blindingly obvious that he's below all three? Look at the recent head to heads in slams. How is he blindingly below Novak or Federer?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,741 ✭✭✭Mousewar


    Rjd2 wrote: »
    It matters. Novak was...

    The article you quoted makes it clear it was the epic way that match developed that left them so emotionally drained rather than the event itself. Anyway, my point was that the Olympics matters less for most players, esp for the majority of players who have little chance of winning it and are instead more concerned with ranking points which more available at slams. I never said they didn't care about the Olympics at all.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 868 ✭✭✭Gerry91


    walshb wrote: »
    Blindingly obvious that he's below all three? Look at the recent head to heads in slams. How is he blindingly below Novak or Federer?

    To be honest I wouldn't bother, anyone who calls Andy Murray a journeyman should clearly be ignored, even his most ardent haters can acknowledge he's a good bloody tennis player


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 868 ✭✭✭Gerry91


    Don't gorget the fact he also "hates England" :pac:

    Oh yes forgot that one!

    I can see this old chestnut being dragged back out of the woodwork on SPOTY night myself!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 868 ✭✭✭Gerry91



    Can he beat them on their day, yes he can of course but his achievements to date are so far behind the others. He deserved to win the Wimbledon final, no question about that but there was a big difference in difficultly of the draw. Verdasco has done next to nothing in a slam since Australian open 2008 ! Berdych who you claim to be an easier opponent has beaten Murray more times than he has lost to him !
    .

    What has Rosol EVER done in a slam? Or Darcis? Or Stavkohsky? Benneteau in Wimbledon 2012? At least Verdasco has been ranked in the top ten and made slam quarters and semis

    Believe it or not, regardless of ranking players can have inspired days. And Berdych vs Djokovic is a completely different match up to Berdych v Murray. He rolls over against Djok. Same as Tsonga could always give the other 3 a much better game than Murray. Players match up differently v different players

    Verdasco isn't a nobody, he beat Nadal on clay in 2012, has been a solid top ten player in the past, and found some brilliant form at sw19- no nobody makes it into a quarter final. He just had an inspired day and was really hard to beat. Look at Wawrinka v Djok at Australia. Wawrinka was coming off the back of a woeful 2012.

    I love how Djok was "tired" in the final, yet nobody mentions Murray came through a 5 set quarter, a tough, long 4 setter semi on top of that

    If he wins the AO, I'm just waiting for people to come out with "sure it's the worst slam anyway".

    As for players not caring about Olympics, it's been answered brilliantly above by a variety of posters and they cover everything- nothing more to be said. I'll just say, I find it hard to believe Djok and Fed would waste their time in London getting all the way to the latter stages in the process, in a tournament they don't "care" about. Why didn't they go to North AMerica and prepare for the hard court season?


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,024 ✭✭✭✭Rjd2


    Gerry91 wrote: »
    What has Rosol EVER done in a slam? Or Darcis? Or Stavkohsky? Benneteau in Wimbledon 2012? At least Verdasco has been ranked in the top ten and made slam quarters and semis

    Believe it or not, regardless of ranking players can have inspired days. And Berdych vs Djokovic is a completely different match up to Berdych v Murray. He rolls over against Djok. Same as Tsonga could always give the other 3 a much better game than Murray. Players match up differently v different players

    Verdasco isn't a nobody, he beat Nadal on clay in 2012, has been a solid top ten player in the past, and found some brilliant form at sw19- no nobody makes it into a quarter final. He just had an inspired day and was really hard to beat. Look at Wawrinka v Djok at Australia. Wawrinka was coming off the back of a woeful 2012.

    I love how Djok was "tired" in the final, yet nobody mentions Murray came through a 5 set quarter, a tough, long 4 setter semi on top of that

    Yep bear in mind the pressure in the semi was immense, he knew well he would have been lambasted by the public and the press if he lost to a player who most except those in the know had written off.

    Jerzy was in serious form at Wimbledon and his game is perfect for grass. Lets not forget Murray also had to deal with an absurd interruption due to Jerzy complaining non stop. The roof coming on was another danger in what was a close match.

    Just looked at both Novak and Murray's run to the final in at the US Open 2012.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_US_Open_%E2%80%93_Men%27s_Singles


    On paper Del Potro was the biggest hurdle but in reality he was rubbish against Novak. I know better than most because I lost quite a bit of money on him and you can imagine how tough that was to watch at silly o clock.

    As usual Ferrer rolled over for him.

    Murray had to beat raonic who was a very dangerous floater on these surfaces, Cilic a player who has lost to previously and of course Berdych a player who unlike when he plays Novak does causes all sorts of problems.

    Swings and roundabouts really.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 7,557 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    walshb wrote: »
    Blindingly obvious that he's below all three? Look at the recent head to heads in slams. How is he blindingly below Novak or Federer?

    Ah come on, Murray is ahead of Federer now and has been for the last year or so. I just think he is just below Nadal and Djokovic. I feel for Murray to beat either of those 2 he needs to be on top of his game for the whole match to win, the other 2 I feel can beat Murray playing just below their best.

    Now I feel Djokovic has Nadal's number and is the one player who Nadal fears. Djokovic's problem this year I think is his intensity and concentration, I think that had dropped from 2011/2012. If Djokovic can get that intensity and concentration back he will be practically unstoppable next year. I expect his number 1 goal will be to win the French beating Nadal along the way.

    But that's just my opinion.:)


  • Registered Users Posts: 54,912 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Anyone think the rest/layoff for Andy could be as beneficial as it was for Nadal this year?


  • Registered Users Posts: 54,912 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Floppybits wrote: »
    A

    Now I feel Djokovic has Nadal's number and is the one player who Nadal fears. :)

    Couldn't agree more, even though Nadal has pegged him back from the 7 straight losses over the past 2 years. I love their match ups for the very reason you mention. Novak plays Nadal with no real fear. He just plays his game and does not try to change it too much. Novak seems faster/stronger and even as physically fit.


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,929 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    walshb wrote: »
    Anyone think the rest/layoff for Andy could be as beneficial as it was for Nadal this year?

    I don't know. Nadal was only resting his knees, Andy's had proper surgery and has had to do rehab and all that so I'm not sure it'll have the same effect. Being away from the game for so long might make him hungrier mentally though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,557 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    walshb wrote: »
    Anyone think the rest/layoff for Andy could be as beneficial as it was for Nadal this year?

    I think it will affect his game. As the injury was to his back he may have to alter the way he serves to protect his back, also he may have to change the way he moves about the court. I think it was Becker who had to change his serve due to a back injury.


  • Registered Users Posts: 214 ✭✭WaterLily.


    I don't know. Nadal was only resting his knees, Andy's had proper surgery and has had to do rehab and all that so I'm not sure it'll have the same effect. Being away from the game for so long might make him hungrier mentally though.

    I definitely think that it will make him more motivated and hungrier in the slams next year. I know after Wimbledon a lot of his problems were obviously caused by his back but it did seem as well that after his win he was just exhausted and drained mentally and probably emotionally as well. He didn't seem to have the intense drive we had been seeing from about Wimbledon or even Rolland Garros 2012 throughout the US summer hard-court season.

    I think he looked like he needed a break anyway imo. The couple of weeks he took off in July weren't enough. Obviously he would rather not have had to take an enforced break because of surgery but I think it will do him a lot of good, not only physically obviously, but mentally.


  • Registered Users, Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,342 Mod ✭✭✭✭yerwanthere123


    Murray recently said that he felt he wasn't able to generate as much power on his shots as he should, so it'll be interesting to see could there possibly be a more powerful approach to his game when he returns. It certainly wouldn't hurt anyway :)

    That being said though, I'm not expecting too much when he returns in Melbourne. Realistically he's not going to be winning the title after so long away.


  • Registered Users Posts: 214 ✭✭WaterLily.


    ^ No I agree with you there, I'd say the first slam he will really be focussing on is defending his Wimbledon title. Australia is probably too early and clay is his weakest surface.

    Can't believe I just wrote that Andy Murray will be defending a Wimbledon title!! I hope he is successful in retaining it, I would really love to see that.

    Yeahhh, I'm not thinking too far ahead at all :rolleyes: :D


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,929 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    Murray said himself at the US Open that he found it really hard to get motivated for training or anything after the high of winning Wimbledon. It's understandable. It's not just like he won any old slam there, years and years of pressure and media attention and all that jazz. So yeah... I think this break will probably have done him the world of good. Mentally I don't think there'll be any problem it just remains to be seen how he is physically.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 2,919 ✭✭✭RosyLily


    Serbia 1-2 Czech Rep in Davis Cup final.

    Berdych and Stepanek gave the Czechs the advantage earlier today. They beat the Serbian pair of Zimonjic and Bozoljac 6-2, 6-4, 7-6. Could all come down to Tomas tomorrow. If he beats Novak he'll clinch the Davis Cup for his country. However, Berdych has only won 2 of his 16 encounters with Djokovic and he's never beaten him on a hard-court.

    So, it could boil down to the very last match: Dusan Lajovic vs. Radek Stepanek. My money's on the Czechs.


Advertisement