The 2013 In Between Grand Slam Thread

Gerry91

Snowy Man wrote: »

Federer beat Nadal in the final of madrid on clay in 2009, at the WTF in 2010 and 2011 and at Indian Wells in 2012.

I'm talking slams here, and they're the only games I think are relevant when comparing players to be honest.

Gerry91

So looking like a Djok/Nadal final

In an end of season event, on a surface Nadal doesn't even like and they still make it- it's getting way too bloody predictable

Come back quick Murray, he mightn't put an immediate stop to this but at least he's probably the only player who can currently beat these in a slam

If anyone outside these 3 win a slam in 2014 (barring injury) I'd eat my hat

WaterLily.

At the rate Djokovic is going I think he will win it tomorrow unless he completely worn out or something. He looks possessed tonight!! Its funny, for pretty much the whole year Nadal has been the best player on the tour and Djokovic has been no1 in the rankings and the minute Nadal surpasses him, Djokovic wakes up and goes on a 20 match win streak.

I hope Nadal wins tomorrow, I'd like him to win a WTF at some stage but he is definitely the underdog tomorrow. Djokovic on this kind of surface is virtually unbeatable.

Also I think in the 2011 WTFs Nadal was ill and had to go to the loo to throw up half way through that match so I'm not too sure that one counts!! :P

WaterLily.

Gerry91 wrote: »

So looking like a Djok/Nadal final

In an end of season event, on a surface Nadal doesn't even like and they still make it- it's getting way too bloody predictable

Come back quick Murray, he mightn't put an immediate stop to this but at least he's probably the only player who can currently beat these in a slam

If anyone outside these 3 win a slam in 2014 (barring injury) I'd eat my hat

Couldn't agree more... about everything.

It is starting to get seriously tedious, they are both fantastic players but a little variety wouldn't hurt!

If Murray doesn't come back fully fit or isn't as good after his injury I will be very disappointed, because if he isn't in a position to challenge Nadal or Djokovic by the looks of things we are looking at those two sweeping up every grand slam for the next few years :eek:

Gerry91

^^^ Similar to last year for Djok too! All in all as harsh as it may sound underwhelming 2012 and 2013 though

AO is gonna be interesting. Really tough one, Djok is a beast there but Nadal with a good, solid pre season in him and he could become his US Open unstoppable self. Even Murray is due one in a way- that's if he's fit!

As I said before, I think I'd go with whichever of Djok and Nadal avoids Murray's half of the draw if you get me

Gerry91

WaterLily. wrote: »

Couldn't agree more... about everything.

It is starting to get seriously tedious, they are both fantastic players but a little variety wouldn't hurt!

If Murray doesn't come back fully fit or isn't as good after his injury I will be very disappointed, because if he isn't in a position to challenge Nadal or Djokovic by the looks of things we are looking at those two sweeping up every grand slam for the next few years :eek:

Indeed! The only interesting one might be Wimbledon where Nadal is weak on week one (but if he gets through that who knows...) and Djok isn't his usual self generally.

Think grass has well and truly become Murray's forte and he's grass #1 at this stage, but if he doesn't get through clay season we might STILL have a bloody Djok/ Nadal final

WaterLily.

I want a Murray/ Nadal final! I said it before the US Open and it didn't happen so I'll say it again, I really want those two to contest a slam final at some point in the near future!

Tbh Djokovic bores me and that is why I would agree about an underwhelming 2012 and 2013...if you omit Andy's Wimbledon win and Rafa's US Open and I suppose general comeback. I kind of hoped Djokovic would just go back to being no3 after 2011 as harsh as it sounds, I just can't warm to him or even enjoy his matches for some reason, he doesn't come across as that sincere or likeable to me!

I think to be honest we are looking at an awful lot more Nadal/ Djokovic finals and I suppose it isn't their fault that no one else is up to it (bar Murray)!!

Gerry91

WaterLily. wrote: »

I want a Murray/ Nadal final! I said it before the US Open and it didn't happen so I'll say it again, I really want those two to contest a slam final at some point in the near future!

Tbh Djokovic bores me and that is why I would agree about an underwhelming 2012 and 2013...if you omit Andy's Wimbledon win and Rafa's US Open and I suppose general comeback. I kind of hoped Djokovic would just go back to being no3 after 2011 as harsh as it sounds, I just can't warm to him or even enjoy his matches for some reason, he doesn't come across as that sincere or likeable to me!

I think to be honest we are looking at an awful lot more Nadal/ Djokovic finals and I suppose it isn't their fault that no one else is up to it (bar Murray)!!

Yeah me either whatever it is!

RosyLily

Variety is the spice of life... shame men's tennis is lacking in it these days. What I wouldn't give to see Delpo or Federer win a GS in 2014!!!

Looking forward to seeing Murray in the New Year.

I agree about Djokovic. Can't warm to him at all and I don't know why!

In 2014, the LTA will stop funding players over 24. According to The Telegraph, by this new rule, they'll only be supporting 6 players. Jamie Murray, Jonny Marray and Elena Baltacha are just some of the players omitted. Daniel Evans is in his final year of funding...he better make it count!

I understand it's a tough time but surely they could start cuts at the top and work their way down to players. Former LTA head Draper got £640,000 p/a plus bonus package. New head Michael Downey will receive £400,000. Crazy amount of money imo.

Gerry91

RosyLily wrote: »

Variety is the spice of life... shame men's tennis is lacking in it these days. What I wouldn't give to see Delpo or Federer win a GS in 2014!!!

Looking forward to seeing Murray in the New Year.

I agree about Djokovic. Can't warm to him at all and I don't know why!

In 2014, the LTA will stop funding players over 24. According to The Telegraph, by this new rule, they'll only be supporting 6 players. Jamie Murray, Jonny Marray and Elena Baltacha are just some of the players omitted. Daniel Evans is in his final year of funding...he better make it count!

I understand it's a tough time but surely they could start cuts at the top and work their way down to players. Former LTA head Draper got £640,000 p/a plus bonus package. New head Michael Downey will receive £400,000. Crazy amount of money imo.

As simple as it sounds, I just think he's not that extremely likeable really!! Of course loads love him but even in every day life regular people have an aura of likeability about them which is hard to describe and others just aren't as easy to warm to whatever it is.

I know Fed comes out with questionable stuff from time to time, but he's incredibly likeable all round tbh. He just oozes coolness I think

Someone like Del Potro too you just want to hang out with him and be mates with him???



But I think that's just what it is! I'd doubt he cares anyway, he can go home and cry into his 6 grand slams and his millions of earnings with his smokin hot fiance

mickmackey1

Snowy Man wrote: »

Federer in 09,10 and 11 was certainly past his peak.

Yes, definitely agree. In fact the decline started even earlier than that, people talk about the great Wimby final in 08 but the number of unforced errors by Fed in that match was shocking.

Also wouldn't put it past Nadal to reach 17, the thought must be pretty worrying for Fed, particularly now that he can't do anything about it!

Gerry91

mickmackey1 wrote: »

Yes, definitely agree. In fact the decline started even earlier than that, people talk about the great Wimby final in 08 but the number of unforced errors by Fed in that match was shocking.

Also wouldn't put it past Nadal to reach 17, the thought must be pretty worrying for Fed, particularly now that he can't do anything about it!

True, but he wouldn't go away at all. Didn't Nadal have match points in the third and fourth sets? Def Fourth anyway!

That tie breaker was bloody epic.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Serena has 17 Slams, and Steffi Graf has 22. Just sayin'

mickmackey1

Don't forget Maggie Court with 24 :P

yerwanthere123

mickmackey1 wrote: »

True, but here's a different h2h... Nadal: 18 non-clay court titles, Federer... 67

Not really relevant to what we were talking about

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Whilst Federer is obviously in decline outside forces haven't helped him .
Nadal (and Djokovic and Murray) has benefited from the huge slow down of court surfaces.

The court at the O2 was slowed dramatically last year and its slower still this year.
Nadals persistent complaints about the surface not suiting him have paid off ,the court at the O2 is now a medium pace court with a medium bounce ,its not a true indoor surface .

It has come to the ludicrous stage now where players hit more winners at the French Open than at either Wimbledon or the Australian Open.
If Del Potro cant hit through these courts, then who can?

I know the slow surfaces favour Nadal and put Federer at a disadvantage, but whatever "outside forces" are at play, when people look back on their record against each other in years to come, there won't be an asterisk on the side saying "most of these matches were played on a slow court". The facts are that regardless of grand slam count, court surfaces and speed, Nadal has consistently and systematically dominated Federer throughout their careers.

WaterLily.

Gerry91 wrote: »

I know Fed comes out with questionable stuff from time to time, but he's incredibly likeable all round tbh. He just oozes coolness I think

That couldn't be more true! Every time I see Federer walk on court or give an interview or sign an autograph or whatever he just looks so damn cool doing it! He is just so relaxed looking all the time and has this superior presence that no one can touch.:D

Yeah and about Djokovic, I doubt he cares one bit, by the looks of things the only thing in life that he hasn't got and he wants, is a Rolland Garros title... and he'll get that eventually I'm sure! I think, part of it anyway, to me he comes of as a bit arrogant with all the roaring and some of the things he says just don't sit quite right with me.

I do think though that Djokovic will probably get many more grand slams and titles but people will never view him as being in the same league as Federer or Nadal. Wherever those two go they are met with the biggest cheers, nearly everyone loves them and if one of them announced their retirement tomorrow millions of people would be devastated! Whereas if Djokovic did most people wouldn't be too fussed, surprised yes, maybe a bit disappointed that Nadal's number 1 competition would be gone but I think that I am right in saying that in general people would not be that sad.

yerwanthere123

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Whilst Federer is obviously in decline outside forces haven't helped him .
Nadal (and Djokovic and Murray) has benefited from the huge slow down of court surfaces.

The court at the O2 was slowed dramatically last year and its slower still this year.
Nadals persistent complaints about the surface not suiting him have paid off ,the court at the O2 is now a medium pace court with a medium bounce ,its not a true indoor surface .

It has come to the ludicrous stage now where players hit more winners at the French Open than at either Wimbledon or the Australian Open.
If Del Potro cant hit through these courts, then who can?

By the way I just want to say I completely agree with you on the court speeds issue. I think I remember us talking about it on here during the US Open. It's not only dreadfully unfair but it's actually anti-tennis, in my opinion. Court speeds should reward offense, not defense. This is one of the reasons why nobody outside of Nadal, Djokovic and Murray can get a look-in at the slams rights now.

WaterLily.

Is there even a possibility that they will speed some of the courts back up? After slowing them all down will they actually reverse what they have done in recent years?

Personally I don't think that they will, not for a good few years anyway

yerwanthere123

Gerry91 wrote: »

I know Fed comes out with questionable stuff from time to time, but he's incredibly likeable all round tbh. He just oozes coolness I think

I think the opposite to be honest. All this 'Roger The Gent' spiel has always quite bugged me, particularly when he has at times behaved far from a gent. It bothers me the way he can at times behave quite badly and he's never criticised for it. He's also very slow to give praise to opponent's who beat him, except for Nadal. The slave-like devotion and adulation he gets from his fans grows tiresome too, but that's not really his fault. Sorry, he bugs me a lot

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

^ I think it's very easy to come across as a gent when you're winning everything and people are queuing up to kiss your feet.

It's like Serena. If you only watched her on court interviews and pressers after wins you could be forgiven for thinking she's a lovely person. Watch her when she's losing or things aren't going her way and she's a completely different person.

Federer has shown a lot more.... let's call it sass, over the past two or three years because things haven't been going well for him and he can't just spew out the standard answers anymore.

Gerry91

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

I think the opposite to be honest. All this 'Roger The Gent' spiel has always quite bugged me, particularly when he has at times behaved far from a gent. It bothers me the way he can at times behave quite badly and he's never criticised for it. He's also very slow to give praise to opponent's who beat him, except for Nadal. The slave-like devotion and adulation he gets from his fans grows tiresome too, but that's not really his fault. Sorry, he bugs me a lot

I wouldn't be his greatest fan myself but I can see how he's a likeable guy. I mentioned he does come out with questionable things

He just seems a cool guy, even his demeanour on court is generally laid back. I don't agree with a lot of what he says but I'd love to meet the guy if that makes sense

Look at Tiger Woods sure and his demeanours yet he's still adored worldwide by golf fans

yerwanthere123

WaterLily. wrote: »

Is there even a possibility that they will speed some of the courts back up? After slowing them all down will they actually reverse what they have done in recent years?

Personally I don't think that they will, not for a good few years anyway

I think it'll happen eventually. It simply has to. Someone needs to stand up to Nadal and co. Can't remember if I posted about it in here recently, but both the Australian Open and Shanghai tournament directors have both said that they're in favour of speeding up the courts. Hopefully this might set the ball rolling

WaterLily.

^ I think he 'oozes coolness' as Gerry put it but I have to agree, the whole gentleman thing is complete rubbish imo, like a façade he puts on for the public. He does come across as quite condescending some of the time and can be quite arrogant, but he gets away with everything because he is 'Roger Federer'. That, I don't like, I do agree. I don't think anyone should be able to get away with some of the things he says just because of what he has done on the tennis court.

Tbh that's why I like Delpo, Rafa and Andy a lot. They all seem like genuinely nice people, always quick to praise their opponents but honest and it just seems (to me anyway) like we see the real them both on and off court, their attributes and faults alike.

Edit: as for Serena, I've never liked her and never will. She always came off as a fake, nasty person to me.

Gerry91

You have that but then you see how he's never had any high profile scandals, has never been in any high profile bust ups, has been with the same woman since before he became the superstar he is today, appears a proper family man and generally is pleasant to fans and the likes

I know some of his interviews haven't come across great and he has been a sore loser on occasion but off court when all is said and done I'd say he's a good, decent guy

When youre that high profile you'll be scrutinised a lot. They all have their faults

Murray's swearing/petulance on court, Nadal's long lists of excuses, Djokovic's (at times) apparent insincerity and demeanour on court.

When I've seen Fed in exhibitions he's been a good sport. I remember one time Sampras and Agassi came across as two children on one occasion. They'll all have their faults and they'll be seen more as they are the most players in the public eye

There's no comparing Serena and Roger, the former has a hell of a lot of detractors, wayyyy more than Fed

To emphasise I don't think he's the goody goody he's made out to be ("gent" as ye've said) but all round he's a generally sound fella I'd say

Gerry91

^^^ As well as that, the way he carries himself contributes to his popularity IMO

To be fair to him he's incredibly articulate, his English is A1! He can speak a good few languages too- he does put in an effort no doubt to pander to the masses

He dresses brilliantly too it's easy to see why this gent persona surrounds him

mickmackey1

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

Not really relevant to what we were talking about

What you were talking about didn't make any sense because you were failing to recognise that the h2h can be viewed in a number of different ways.

yerwanthere123

WaterLily. wrote: »

^ I think he 'oozes coolness' as Gerry put it but I have to agree, the whole gentleman thing is complete rubbish imo, like a façade he puts on for the public. He does come across as quite condescending some of the time and can be quite arrogant, but he gets away with everything because he is 'Roger Federer'. That, I don't like, I do agree. I don't think anyone should be able to get away with some of the things he says just because of what he has done on the tennis court.

Tbh that's why I like Delpo, Rafa and Andy a lot. They all seem like genuinely nice people, always quick to praise their opponents but honest and it just seems (to me anyway) like we see the real them both on and off court.

Edit: as for Serena, I've never liked her and never will. She always came off as a fake, nasty person to me.

This is why I love Andy too. A genuinely honest, nice guy. Success and millions haven't changed him one bit. Yet still, despite being (in my opinion) by far the most genuine of the big 4, he remains the least liked, often derided for being "boring" and because apparently he "never smiles". The irony of it all

Gerry91

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

This is why I love Andy too. A genuinely honest, nice guy. Success and millions haven't changed him one bit. Yet still, despite being (in my opinion) by far the most genuine of the big 4, he remains the least liked, often derided for being "boring" and because apparently he "never smiles". The irony of it all

Yeah he's def a sound guy he came across very well on Jonathan Ross last night!

He's the most genuine out of them by a mile. You'd often hear him interviewed before a game and he'd come out with his opponent's (they could be 122 in the world) recent performances and strengths, instead of lazy cliches

Hes just shy, which means boring to a lot

Gerry91

^^^ I'd actually say hes more liked overall than Djok though, I think the Aussies love him due to his Scottishness (:P) and he's definitely more popular in America. Granted in the likes of Asia, Djokovic's "fun" personality is an instant winner

It depends really, the other two are way out ahead though...

yerwanthere123

mickmackey1 wrote: »

What you were talking about didn't make any sense because you were failing to recognise that the h2h can be viewed in a number of different ways.

Oh for christs sake. Look at the head to head in as many different ways as you like. Take out clay, whatever. Cherrypick to your heart content! Nadal has dominated Federer from their very first meeting, to their latest one today. That's really all there is to say about it.