The 2013 In Between Grand Slam Thread

Mousewar

Okay - it's up to Djokovic to save tennis once again. Let's do it champ!

coconut5

The match is on BBC3 tonight from 7.30.

Mousewar

not sure I can actually bring myself to watch these two clubbing the ball remorselessly from the baseline for 5 hours, while the commentators wet themselves about how it's the best tennis they've ever seen.

coconut5

Mousewar wrote: »

not sure I can actually bring myself to watch these two clubbing the ball remorselessly from the baseline for 5 hours, while the commentators wet themselves about how it's the best tennis they've ever seen.

Well, it's a 3-setter max isn't it? So maybe it won't be too bad.

Mousewar

coconut5 wrote: »

Well, it's a 3-setter max isn't it? So maybe it won't be too bad.

Wouldn't put the five hours past them, tbh.

mickmackey1

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

Oh for christs sake. Look at the head to head in as many different ways as you like. Take out clay, whatever. Cherrypick to your heart content! Nadal has dominated Federer from their very first meeting, to their latest one today. That's really all there is to say about it.

Calm down, calm down, it's not like I accused your hero of being on the sauce :pac:

Polyethanol

Djokovic in straight sets Easy money.

Floppybits

Polyethanol wrote: »

Djokovic in straight sets Easy money.

Djokovic was fantastic. Can't wait for next years battle between these 2. Can't see Murray getting a look in against these 2, they seem to be another level ahead of him.

Gerry91

Floppybits wrote: »

Djokovic was fantastic. Can't wait for next years battle between these 2. Can't see Murray getting a look in against these 2, they seem to be another level ahead of him.

I dunno Murray has always been very good at the Australian Open I can't see him being beaten easy there.

Then you have the French where Rafa will stroll it and Murray is probably better than those 2 on grass.

So we could very well have a very similar year to this year, with Novak favourite for AO, Nadal favourite for French, Murray Wimbledon and then take your pick for New York

Djokovic played well but Nadal was cack tonight

I've said it before but this strong end of season by Djok is just masking what has been an average year by his standards. The rankings say he's quite a level above Murray, but there's very little between the 2 when they play

If Murray stays fit in 2014 he'll power up the rankings as he stands to gain a load, while Nadal stands to basically lose evrything after Jan

Gerry91

mickmackey1 wrote: »

Calm down, calm down, it's not like I accused your hero of being on the sauce :pac:

I'm trying but I'm sorry I don't get the joke?

Mousewar

Boom! Djoko saves tennis once more!

And there's no way Murray is favourite at Wimbledon against Rafa. Nadal will wear him down easy.

Gerry91

Mousewar wrote: »

Boom! Djoko saves tennis once more!

And there's no way Murray is favourite at Wimbledon against Rafa. Nadal will wear him down easy.

Well Rafa might want to get himself past week one if he's going to be wearing any of the big guns down

The same was said going into Wimbledon this year and sure wasn't he going to beat Murray in the semi in 2012?

If they met you wouldn't bet against rafa but that's a MASSIVE if

Gerry91

I don't think Rafa will be too upset he had his excuse in anyway from early on in the week, and Djok prob needed the win more to put a bit of gloss on his year

I'd fancy Djokovic in januray but sure who knows

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

I'd just like to point out that Fernando Verdasco now has more World Tour Final titles than Rafa has

yerwanthere123

Not a bad match! Never have I rooted for Novak more, was quite a weird feeling actually! :pac:

yerwanthere123

mickmackey1 wrote: »

Calm down, calm down, it's not like I accused your hero of being on the sauce :pac:

My Hero? Nadal?! Jaysus is that how I'm coming across? Quite the opposite actually, don't like his style of play, and have actually turned quite against the man himself in recent times. I do try to be fair to all players though, hence why I was defending him.

Floppybits wrote: »

Djokovic was fantastic. Can't wait for next years battle between these 2. Can't see Murray getting a look in against these 2, they seem to be another level ahead of him.

Hmm, Murray hasn't played Nadal in over two years, and he's improved massively since then and gone on to win two grand slams! He'll also be coming back from an injury layoff in the new year, so it's far too early to try and deduce how Andy will fare against Rafa imo.

As for Novak, don't see how you could say he's on "another level" to Murray, Andy has beaten him in two grand slam finals and an Olympic semi-final inside the last year!

It'll be very, very interesting to see Andy come back and see how he fares with Rafa back on the scene.

Mousewar wrote: »

Boom! Djoko saves tennis once more!

And there's no way Murray is favourite at Wimbledon against Rafa. Nadal will wear him down easy.

Don't understand this at all tbh. Why are we looking ahead to the 3rd slam of next year already? There's also no real basis for thinking that Nadal will "wear down" Murray at Wimbledon next time they meet. Andy got to the final in 2012 and won in 2013, Nadal couldn't get past the 2nd round on either occasion!

Slashermcguirk

No doubting djokovic and nadal are well ahead of the chasing pack. Murray can be great on his day but will never reach the heights of these guys. He has never reached a single final on clay, never been to final of WTF, rafa completely owns him and Novak has always led the H2H with Murray. If you take fed and nadal out of it, just look at djokovic accomplishments compared to Murray

Djokovic
6 slams and 6 other finals
16 masters series
41 ATP wins
David cup winner
17 wins vs nadal including 3 slam finals
15 wins vs federer including 5 slam wins
French open finalist and 4 masters in clay
3 world tour finals titles
Olympic bronze
Nearly $60 million in prize money
102 weeks at world number one

Murray
2 slams and 5 runner ups
8 masters
28 ATP titles
Olympic gold
5 wins vs rafa
11 wins vs roger, 1 slam win
No titles or finals on clay
Losing H2H vs Novak and overall in slams meetings
28 million prize money
Never reached number one

Really don't get how you can say Murray is in same league as Novak, great player but way behind

walshb

Slashermcguirk wrote: »

No doubting djokovic and nadal are well ahead of the chasing pack. Murray can be great on his day but will never reach the heights of these guys. He has never reached a single final on clay, never been to final of WTF, rafa completely owns him and Novak has always led the H2H with Murray. If you take fed and nadal out of it, just look at djokovic accomplishments compared to Murray

Djokovic
6 slams and 6 other finals
16 masters series
41 ATP wins
David cup winner
17 wins vs nadal including 3 slam finals
15 wins vs federer including 5 slam wins
French open finalist and 4 masters in clay
3 world tour finals titles
Olympic bronze
Nearly $60 million in prize money
102 weeks at world number one

Murray
2 slams and 5 runner ups
8 masters
28 ATP titles
Olympic gold
5 wins vs rafa
11 wins vs roger, 1 slam win
No titles or finals on clay
Losing H2H vs Novak and overall in slams meetings
28 million prize money
Never reached number one

Really don't get how you can say Murray is in same league as Novak, great player but way behind

Statistcally and titles wise Murray is is behind, but man vs. man they are very very close. Do you remember U.S and Wimbledon?

Slashermcguirk

walshb wrote: »

Statistcally and titles wise Murray is is behind, but man vs. man they are very very close. Do you remember U.S and Wimbledon?

Yes I remember those matches, worth noting that at Wimbledon, djokovic came through a much more difficult draw and an epic long match against del potro in semi final. Murray also had home support behind him and on djokovic's weakest surface.

Us open was a good win for Murray though

Rjd2

WaterLily. wrote: »

^ I think he 'oozes coolness' as Gerry put it but I have to agree, the whole gentleman thing is complete rubbish imo, like a façade he puts on for the public. He does come across as quite condescending some of the time and can be quite arrogant, but he gets away with everything because he is 'Roger Federer'. That, I don't like, I do agree. I don't think anyone should be able to get away with some of the things he says just because of what he has done on the tennis court.

Federer is an awful loser, rarely gives his opponents who beat him proper credit,unlike the likes of Nadal who always make sure to praise those who beat him. Don't like the guy at all.

Gerry91

Slashermcguirk wrote: »

Yes I remember those matches, worth noting that at Wimbledon, djokovic came through a much more difficult draw and an epic long match against del potro in semi final. Murray also had home support behind him and on djokovic's weakest surface.

Us open was a good win for Murray though

He didn't really, Berdych always lies down v Novak and in the quarters Murray came up v an inspired Verdasco who on his day is a tough customer. He beat Nadal on clay last year, made an AO semi a few years back and played with zero fear throughout and had one of those days where everything hit the lines early doors

I'm not even sure Djok's semi was that much tougher, Janowicz is an absolute lethal server, when his serve is on it's nearly impossible break him. The days of the big server going on a WImbledon run and being a nuisnace are not entirely gone, Karlovic did it a few years ago, and Berdych's 2010 run a lot was down to a booming first serve, and look at Roddick in 09. These guys are hard to beat when they get some momentum

On paper Djok played higher ranked players but it doesn't always turn out they'll be tougher

Djok being tired for the final from semi is absolute bs, people seem to forget the AO 2012 and the AO 2013 after the marathon v Wawrinka

Murray fully deserved his WImbledon and is def the worlds best grass courter in that he's on a 18 or so match winning streak, won Wimbledon this year, Olympics last year and just missed out v an inspired Fed last year.

Very little between the two in general, Djok fairly coasted the AO but Murray won the slam final meeting before and after and AO 2012 was as close as they come. Even at WTF and Shanghai last year nothing separated them

As for Nadal, Murray is a far better player since they last met (2011). I don't think he'll fear him as much anymore- incidentally Murray hammered him that day but it was only Tokyo

It's still a "top 3" for me, if Murray gets a good pre season into him who knows he could give AO a serious rattle. He's made three finals if I'm correct. Nadal is notorious for picking up injuries/making excuses here aswell

yerwanthere123

Slashermcguirk wrote: »

No doubting djokovic and nadal are well ahead of the chasing pack. Murray can be great on his day but will never reach the heights of these guys. He has never reached a single final on clay, never been to final of WTF, rafa completely owns him and Novak has always led the H2H with Murray. If you take fed and nadal out of it, just look at djokovic accomplishments compared to Murray

Djokovic
6 slams and 6 other finals
16 masters series
41 ATP wins
David cup winner
17 wins vs nadal including 3 slam finals
15 wins vs federer including 5 slam wins
French open finalist and 4 masters in clay
3 world tour finals titles
Olympic bronze
Nearly $60 million in prize money
102 weeks at world number one

Murray
2 slams and 5 runner ups
8 masters
28 ATP titles
Olympic gold
5 wins vs rafa
11 wins vs roger, 1 slam win
No titles or finals on clay
Losing H2H vs Novak and overall in slams meetings
28 million prize money
Never reached number one

Really don't get how you can say Murray is in same league as Novak, great player but way behind

I'm not for a second trying to suggest that Murray's achievements thus far can accurately be compared with Rafa's and Nole's. No doubt about it, they are way ahead in that respect. And yes, there's the clay issue. I think it's pretty bad that a player of Andy's standing has never won a title on clay, let alone reach a final.

However, as walshb said, man vs. man Andy and Novak are very close. Nole is a better player, but it's very close between them. I know Novak leads their h2h, but it has balanced out a lot more in recent times, and generally Andy has started winning the more important matches between them. The Olympics semi-final, US Open final and Wimbledon final really changed the dynamic between them, and, in my opinion, swung the momentum in Andy's favour. This is what I was talking about last night, and why I think it's not entirely accurate to suggest that Nole is on "another level" to Andy.

As for Rafa, him and Andy haven't played in over two years! It's completely true that Rafa has dominated him in the past and could well continue to do so in the future, but I think at this moment in time we don't really know. Andy is ten times the player he was when they played last, and if he can beat Novak in two slam finals then I don't think it's out of the question that if he gets back to full health, he can cause Nadal some serious trouble. Obviously not on clay though :pac:

yerwanthere123

Still find it hard to believe that this is the guy who keeps Vika warm at night
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/11/10/article-2498019-1955726800000578-459_964x1386.jpg

Rjd2

Gerry91 wrote: »

He didn't really, Berdych always lies down v Novak and in the quarters Murray came up v an inspired Verdasco who on his day is a tough customer. He beat Nadal on clay last year, made an AO semi a few years back and played with zero fear throughout and had one of those days where everything hit the lines early doors

I'm not even sure Djok's semi was that much tougher, Janowicz is an absolute lethal server, when his serve is on it's nearly impossible break him. The days of the big server going on a WImbledon run and being a nuisnace are not entirely gone, Karlovic did it a few years ago, and Berdych's 2010 run a lot was down to a booming first serve, and look at Roddick in 09. These guys are hard to beat when they get some momentum

On paper Djok played higher ranked players but it doesn't always turn out they'll be tougher

Djok being tired for the final from semi is absolute bs, people seem to forget the AO 2012 and the AO 2013 after the marathon v Wawrinka

Murray fully deserved his WImbledon and is def the worlds best grass courter in that he's on a 18 or so match winning streak, won Wimbledon this year, Olympics last year and just missed out v an inspired Fed last year.

Very little between the two in general, Djok fairly coasted the AO but Murray won the slam final meeting before and after and AO 2012 was as close as they come. Even at WTF and Shanghai last year nothing separated them

As for Nadal, Murray is a far better player since they last met (2011). I don't think he'll fear him as much anymore- incidentally Murray hammered him that day but it was only Tokyo

It's still a "top 3" for me, if Murray gets a good pre season into him who knows he could give AO a serious rattle. He's made three finals if I'm correct. Nadal is notorious for picking up injuries/making excuses here aswell

yep Verdasco was in the zone that day and those sort all or nothing when they click are scary. Also he had trashed Gulbis in previous round so he was in form. All well and good been hot favorite with the bookies to win, but once Verdasco starts smashing forehand winners left right and centre it can get quite messy.

Murray also on paper came through a much tougher side than Novak for the US Open in 2012 as well.

WaterLily.

People are so negative about Murray, he will never be 'good enough' in some peoples minds. The man has won 2 grand slams and an Olympic gold in the past 18 months, playing in the same era as Federer, Nadal and Djokovic! And neither Nadal or Djokovic are on another level, yes he struggles against Nadal but as it's been said, they haven't played in 2 years and Murray is 5 times the player he was.

I also hate the way people say that Murray has easier draws and that's the reason he has won the slams, it is just such an excuse. They don't want to accept that he is actually a fantastic tennis player.

I hope Murray comes back better than ever in 2014 because he deserves all the success he's had and much more. He is the only one that can consistently challenge the top 2 so personally I hope we see Murray in many more slam finals from now on. He doesn't deserve all the hate he gets at all, unfortunately (like Nadal in some ways) he just seems to attract it.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

Still find it hard to believe that this is the guy who keeps Vika warm at night
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/11/10/article-2498019-1955726800000578-459_964x1386.jpg

Still find it hard to believe that he's nearly 40.

Mousewar

He attracts it because he's a horrible pusher most of the time. He's basically a successful Gilles Simon. Nobody wants to see that.

edit: re: murray

Gerry91

WaterLily. wrote: »

People are so negative about Murray, he will never be 'good enough' in some peoples minds. The man has won 2 grand slams and an Olympic gold in the past 18 months, playing in the same era as Federer, Nadal and Djokovic! And neither Nadal or Djokovic are on another level, yes he struggles against Nadal but as it's been said, they haven't played in 2 years and Murray is 5 times the player he was.

I also hate the way people say that Murray has easier draws and that's the reason he has won the slams, it is just such an excuse. They don't want to accept that he is actually a fantastic tennis player.

I hope Murray comes back better than ever in 2014 because he deserves all the success he's had and much more. He is the only one that can consistently challenge the top 2 so personally I hope we see Murray in many more slam finals from now on. He doesn't deserve all the hate he gets at all, unfortunately (like Nadal in some ways) he just seems to attract it.

He only won the US Open cos the wind sure

But seriously, this is the best post I've read here for a while, completely agree.

He'll never be good enough to some people. He's a tremendous player who is unlucky in that he's the same age/ year below two of the best players to ever play. His achievements are remarkable given the era he's in.

The Wimbledon win has shut a lot of people up. I'm glad he won't retire a "one slam wonder". If he stays fit I wouldn't rule him out finishing on 5 Grand Slams at least. He's a few years ahead of him yet. On his day he can beat anyone. Yerwanthere alluded to it and I agree, before his injury I actually think he's learned to get the measure of Djokovic recently. I know grass isn't Djokovic's strongest surface but I was mightily impressed with how Murray basically bossed that final. He was getting that title and he wasn't messing around in doing so. When each set was in the melting pot, Murray stood up and grabbed the game by the balls. He's a completely different player than 2 years ago

If they meet at Australia it's a toss up for me, I'd lean with Novak maybe just cos it's Australia. But be under no illusions it's very much a top 3 not a top 2

Gerry91

Mousewar wrote: »

He attracts it because he's a horrible pusher most of the time. He's basically a successful Gilles Simon. Nobody wants to see that.

edit: re: murray

Not anymore. Once upon a time he'd always wait for his opponent to make an error now he wins a shedload of points by turning defence into attack and hitting winners from nowhere.

He's one of the great tacticians of the game.

Anyway, who cares? It's won him two slams. I'd doubt he cares about his style. Djokovic is also insanely defensive as is Nadal. On these slow courts it's the only way to win tbh

And the ridiculous hate he gets is not mainly to him being a "Pusher", most don't have a clue what it means. Look at the bandwagon that goes against him every summer for 2 weeks. It's cos he's "boring" and "miserable" like as if it matters, he's a bloody tennis player :rolleyes:

At least the "Bottler" tag can stopped being used thank God

Mousewar

He went through a short aggression phase alright but it was back to pushing bigtime before his injury. But you're right - that's how you succeed in the modern game. Still, I'm always going to prefer players who resist this remorseless attempt to ruin tennis and instead embrace attacking tennis, even if it comes up short against these metronome baseline pushbots.
Gimmee Federer, Tsonga, Delpo anyday over Djokovic, Nadal, Murray. Hell, even give me Gasquet, the big french choker.