Emigration: Bitterness at those who have left

admiralofthefleet

Debator wrote: »

There are many reasons why young people emigrate - some leave out of frustration at the lack of suitable job opportunities Ireland provides; others simply go for the craic. Who wouldn't prefer tanning on a beach in Oz over shivering in your wet socks in Carlow? But it's Christmas time now and a lot of young Irish emigrants have returned home to enjoy the festive fun with their families.

One thing I've noticed though is the bitterness among those who never left towards those who did. They begrudge the fact that you are enjoying your life abroad and have a bit of money to spend in the pub and do a bit of traveling. They would prefer if you were miserable in Ireland, wasting your youth away on the dole.

This video is doing the rounds on youtube at the moment. Watch out for the theater Northside accent on the UCD graduate. Related video is relevant

whats a theatre northside accent?

is it the accent that is heard all over tallaght, ballybrack, dolphins barn, crumlin and lots of other places that are all on the southside?

Mr. Manager

I left and I hate myself

Miss Lockhart

Debator wrote: »

Who wouldn't prefer tanning on a beach in Oz over shivering in your wet socks in Carlow?

Me for one.

I am delighted for anybody who is enjoying themselves abroad - either on a working holiday or setting up a permanent home. I, however, am perfectly happy in Ireland and I have no time for those who choose to regale me with their tedious stories of "crazy" times on Bondi Beach or whatever and condescend to me about how sh!t Ireland is. I'm always interested to hear from those who have made a proper life for themselves and their families abroad - but they're usually the ones with some perspective and some manners.

Killer Wench

I always wonder - how do you fix things when much of the population chooses to bail rather than stay?

Einhard

Killer Wench wrote: »

I always wonder - how do you fix things when much of the population chooses to bail rather than stay?

I don't think people "choose to bail". I didn't anyway. I had to leave because I couldn't get a job here. Your choice of words seems very dismissive of those who have left.

Mr. Manager

Einhard wrote: »

I don't think people "choose to bail". I didn't anyway. I had to leave because I couldn't get a job here. Your choice of words seems very dismissive of those who have left.

I left by choice. There was job opportunities in Ireland after being made redundant (not many mind you). Luckily, the same jobs were going in Gibraltar and Malta. Didn't think about it for a second before accepting the job here.

philologos

To be honest, I just wanted to live somewhere else. I probably could have got work if I stuck around Dublin, but I thought it was a good opportunity after university to try and live somewhere else, and I'm enjoying it. Is that really so bad?

I just watched that video, it's intentionally built to pull at heartstrings, but I don't really regret leaving. It's not saying that there's anything horrific about Dublin, but I'm just enjoying my life elsewhere.

Killer Wench

Einhard wrote: »

I don't think people "choose to bail". I didn't anyway. I had to leave because I couldn't get a job here. Your choice of words seems very dismissive of those who have left.

I'm not limiting my perspective to strictly the Irish experience, but mostly on my own experience of watching the educated and resourceful leave behind tribal communities so that they could settle in urban centers.

DrumSteve

Im currently living and working in Canada, really enjoying and liking it here. However I do see myself coming home at some stage.

I make a point (if people ask me) to really big up Ireland. Regardless of anything else, its really a great place with a lot of great people.

MadsL

Friend of mine spent 12 years in Saudi Arabia, found it very difficult to find work coming back even in the boom. She found it a very hostile attitude about having worked abroad in her professional career.

Debator

My name is URL wrote: »

Moaning about people moaning about others who moan about others

Really breaking the mould there OP

And now you're moaning.

Delicious, the irony is.

9959

ordinary_girl wrote: »

Emmet Kirwan (the guy in the video) is actually from Tallaght. He didn't go to UCD either.

Not sure about the rambling 'blog like' monologue, but credit to Emmet Kirwan, who in my opinion has a 'presence' and is very believable, perhaps a role, however small, in the next installment of 'Love/Hate' might be an idea.

Credit also to lights/ cameras, excuse the cliche, but it is 'beautifully shot'.

Best supporting Actor award goes to...

......Dublin by night!

No one begrudges, cares, is jealous or gives a fek about me leaving Ireland because really, all they wonder is why the hell am I living in Vietnam for the last two years and the foreseeable future.

giant_midget

In regards to Australia...

Emigration is not getting a 1 year working holiday visa for australia.

Emigration is not spending all your time and money in the tea gardens with all the other embarassing Irish people with farmers tans.

Emigration is not living in a hovel in bondi drinking cheap wine with a clothes line full of gaa jerseys and skyping your mother asking her to send you over some "barrys tea"

ItsNoAlias

I dont get the begrudgery at all. Personally I envy those who are either away or came back. Seeing the world and expanding your horizions is something to be lauded not looked down on. Fair play to them and I wish them the best of luck.

gramar

Personally I emigrated because my missus is from another country.
Some people seem to think that it's a bit of a holiday but I have to get up and go to work like everyone else. It's not all non-stop parties and bucket loads of easy cash.
In fact financially I'd be much better off if I'd stayed at home and would have been happy to do so. I'd still be delighted to return but life has taken me elsewhere and I'm happy where I am. I just fail to understand why poeple sometimes equate
emigration with automatic riches and success. People get up and go to work and go about their business and face the same problems pretty much everywhere and going home at Christmas or whenever you can isn't a pity visit to see the poor relations.

pickarooney

Deleted User wrote: »

No one begrudges, cares, is jealous or gives a fek about me leaving Ireland because really, all they wonder is why the hell am I living in Vietnam for the last two years and the foreseeable future.

Show them this thread and blame us?

BraziliaNZ

Deleted User wrote: »

all they wonder is why the hell am I living in Vietnam for the last two years and the foreseeable future.

I'd be there for the cheap prostitutes

Eve_Dublin

I haven't encountered too much bitterness about the fact that I emigrated as most of my friends live abroad as well and most of my family have emigrated at one stage or another. One thing I'm very conscious of though is the fact that I can't criticise Ireland in any way shape or form in the eyes of some (not all). I was never one to criticise Ireland anyway as I love the place and originally only left for university in 2004 but some people even get touchy when I comment on the expensive and essentially **** transport system. Madrid has a far superior transport system to Dublin/Ireland and it's seen as a boast by some if I even say that. I didn't build the Madrid Metro ffs but objectively, it is a better transport system and you do wonder why can't our government use theirs as a template for our own.

That's just an example. I've also encountered some hostility when I comment on the weather ffs.

Many people feel that because I don't live here anymore, I don't have a right to comment, particularly when it comes to politics. The fact that I can't even vote says it all. I have no voice here anymore. I can't go home to Ireland and a large part of that is down to our feckless politicians and how they ran the country in the last 15 years.....surely emigrants are among those most affected and in turn, that gives us the right to criticise?

And I'm also Irish and the fact that I live in Spain doesn't change that.

I'm not talking about making sweeping comparisons that you find here in AH ("Spain is sooooo much better than Ireland!!" Eh....it really isn't) about what a **** hole Ireland is compared to most other countries in the world but to even make simple observations not based on opinion but on fact.

Ironically, I can't vote in Spain either and the Spanish get just as tetchy when a foreigner like myself, even one that's lived there over 3 years, criticises.

It's not a nice feeling to feel so impotent. Sob.

LordSutch

Debator wrote: »

There are many reasons why young people emigrate - some leave out of frustration at the lack of suitable job opportunities Ireland provides; others simply go for the craic. Who wouldn't prefer tanning on a beach in Oz over shivering in your wet socks in Carlow? But it's Christmas time now and a lot of young Irish emigrants have returned home to enjoy the festive fun with their families.

One thing I've noticed though is the bitterness among those who never left towards those who did. They begrudge the fact that you are enjoying your life abroad and have a bit of money to spend in the pub and do a bit of traveling. They would prefer if you were miserable in Ireland, wasting your youth away on the dole.

This video is doing the rounds on youtube at the moment. Watch out for the theater Northside accent on the UCD graduate. Related video is relevant

I've never understood this begrudgery amongst some Irish people. Every country has people who emigrate for many reasons, and Ireland is no different. Take Australia for instance, which is full of English people, Irish people, Scots + many other nationalities, so what's the problem?

Emigration either short term or permanent is a personal choice, some do some don't.

mikemac1

The Bull's family didn't quit the land

Go home Yank :mad:

who the fug

Rented Mule wrote: »

Nothing like a thread about begrudging people for begrudging/not begrudging begrudgers.

That's the Irish way !!

Begrudging to the power of four.

Paddies do everything better / worse.

dd972

I know it's a big part of the Irish story, but is it only Irish people who emigrate ?, we go on about it at times as if it's a wholly Irish phenomenon, there are tons of English / Portuguese / Spaniards who emigrate, there's even loads of Dutch and Germans who head for New Zealand.

scamalert

Not Irish myself but am living here for the last 6 years,and have to say this country has to offer a lot in terms of friendly people,great nature,scenery,and if one was successful to be born in community with friends around and manage to go to college then its perfect.but looking at it from the other side this country doesnt have proper cities apart from dublin,many small towns,with their short view and attitude about everything that they think is ok,add to this miserable weather,it could be summer ,spring,winter its always cold and pissing rain somewhere every day,you need only pair of boots and jacket to live in this country with such seasons :pac:
as for bitterness towards those who seek happiness somewhere else is just jealousy because they cant be bothered to do anything useful with their lives and are stuck in their own miserable routine.

mikemac1

scamalert wrote: »

this country doesnt have proper cities apart from dublin,

That's fighting talk!

SEPT 23 1989

Great video,very talented youngfella we will be seeing plenty more of him

I have two young kids and to me having them close to their grandparents,uncles and aunties is worth more to me than the extra money i could earn if i left the country

crockholm

I miss Ireland,warts and all, I guess it makes it what it is. I do what I can to help the economy by buying copious amounts of Guinness,Powers and red meat, sure it will probably kill me a lot quicker but maybe someone will write a ballad about me,an Irish hero comparible to Fionn McCool, or something

Eve_Dublin

dd972 wrote: »

I know it's a big part of the Irish story, but is it only Irish people who emigrate ?, we go on about it at times as if it's a wholly Irish phenomenon, there are tons of English / Portuguese / Spaniards who emigrate, there's even loads of Dutch and Germans who head for New Zealand.

I think it's the fact that we're doing it en masse. The Spanish are not emigrating in the amounts we are (which I think is part of their problem). There's not a massive wave of emigration like here. 1000 people a week on average from Ireland. The Portuguese are as well and so are the Italians. The English, Dutch and Germans aren't.

gramar

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

I haven't encountered too much bitterness about the fact that I emigrated as most of my friends live abroad as well and most of my family have emigrated at one stage or another. One thing I'm very conscious of though is the fact that I can't criticise Ireland in any way shape or form in the eyes of some (not all). I was never one to criticise Ireland anyway as I love the place and originally only left for university in 2004 but some people even get touchy when I comment on the expensive and essentially **** transport system. Madrid has a far superior transport system to Dublin/Ireland and it's seen as a boast by some if I even say that. I didn't build the Madrid Metro ffs but objectively, it is a better transport system and you do wonder why can't our government use theirs as a template for our own.

That's just an example. I've also encountered some hostility when I comment on the weather ffs.

Many people feel that because I don't live here anymore, I don't have a right to comment, particularly when it comes to politics. The fact that I can't even vote says it all. I have no voice here anymore. I can't go home to Ireland and a large part of that is down to our feckless politicians and how they ran the country in the last 15 years.....surely emigrants are among those most affected and in turn, that gives us the right to criticise?

And I'm also Irish and the fact that I live in Spain doesn't change that.

I'm not talking about making sweeping comparisons that you find here in AH ("Spain is sooooo much better than Ireland!!" Eh....it really isn't) about what a **** hole Ireland is compared to most other countries in the world but to even make simple observations not based on opinion but on fact.

Ironically, I can't vote in Spain either and the Spanish get just as tetchy when a foreigner like myself, even one that's lived there over 3 years, criticises.

It's not a nice feeling to feel so impotent. Sob.

I've been here (Spain) 8 years and I criticise just like everyone else and no-one has ever gotten tetchy because I'm a foreigner criticising Spain. I've never had a 'if you don't like it f-off back to your own country response'. I still criticise things at home even though I don't live there and possibly never will again although I do keep in almost daily touch with the news as it still feels relevant somehow. In short I like to criticise haha

Eve_Dublin

gramar wrote: »

I've been here (Spain) 8 years and I criticise just like everyone else and no-one has ever gotten tetchy because I'm a foreigner criticising Spain. I've never had a 'if you don't like it f-off back to your own country response'. I still criticise things at home even though I don't live there and possibly never will again although I do keep in almost daily touch with the news as it still feels relevant somehow. In short I like to criticise haha

I don't mean they get angry like that though because they generally like us Irish but people have got very defensive when I have done. I've got into borderline heated arguments when I dared to say their food wasn't THAT great, for example. I spend 25 hours a week with adult Spaniards teaching English and I've learned to keep shtum on certain issues (politics, food and manners, mainly). Sometimes I've piped up on some topics only for them to immediately go on the defense which I don't believe they'd do if I wasn't foreign (I don't think they're exceptional though and that any country is different on that front....nobody wants to hear criticism from foreigners). Just like Ireland, it hasn't been my general experience (I tend not to criticise to their faces anyway) but I come across it enough to write it on here.

The fact that I can't legally vote in either country pisses me off though. I'd be fairly into politics and I hate not having my say.