Emigration: Bitterness at those who have left

Debator

There are many reasons why young people emigrate - some leave out of frustration at the lack of suitable job opportunities Ireland provides; others simply go for the craic. Who wouldn't prefer tanning on a beach in Oz over shivering in your wet socks in Carlow? But it's Christmas time now and a lot of young Irish emigrants have returned home to enjoy the festive fun with their families.

One thing I've noticed though is the bitterness among those who never left towards those who did. They begrudge the fact that you are enjoying your life abroad and have a bit of money to spend in the pub and do a bit of traveling. They would prefer if you were miserable in Ireland, wasting your youth away on the dole.

This video is doing the rounds on youtube at the moment. Watch out for the theater Northside accent on the UCD graduate. Related video is relevant

Celly Smunt

I think people should bring this up more.But going to a different country on a one year work visa isn't emigration.We have thousands of people going on working holidays technically,not thousands of emigrants.

Quazzie

Hi Dave. Are ya having a good Xmas?

Shryke

http://audioboo.fm/boos/1132153-back-home-for-the-christmas

Vito Corleone

I can't wait to get out of here.

mikom

Debator wrote: »

There are many reasons why young people emigrate - some leave out of frustration at the lack of suitable job opportunities Ireland provides; others simply go for the craic. Who wouldn't prefer tanning on a beach in Oz over shivering in your wet socks in Carlow? But it's Christmas time now and a lot of young Irish emigrants have returned home to enjoy the festive fun with their families.

But Oz is so good.............so why come home?

Max Power

Feck them, let them off, more jobs and women for the rest of us.

Squ

Vito Corleone wrote: »

I can't wait to get out of here.

I used to think that till i spent a few years in nz/oz, couldn't wait to get back.

cooperguy

pmcmahon wrote: »

I think people should bring this up more.But going to a different country on a one year work visa isn't emigration.We have thousands of people going on working holidays technically,not thousands of emigrants.

Thats very true at the height of the boom we had a huge amount of people leaving for a year of craic abroad somewhere aswell. Everyone leaving isnt doing it just for work. (I think Noonan got crucified for saying that a few months ago though!)

theholyghost

I hear the opposite often enough- returned emigrants putting Ireland down. It s still my home and I dont want to live anywhere else!

steddyeddy

Debator wrote: »

There are many reasons why young people emigrate - some leave out of frustration at the lack of suitable job opportunities Ireland provides; others simply go for the craic. Who wouldn't prefer tanning on a beach in Oz over shivering in your wet socks in Carlow? But it's Christmas time now and a lot of young Irish emigrants have returned home to enjoy the festive fun with their families.

One thing I've noticed though is the bitterness among those who never left towards those who did. They begrudge the fact that you are enjoying your life abroad and have a bit of money to spend in the pub and do a bit of traveling. They would prefer if you were miserable in Ireland, wasting your youth away on the dole.

This video is doing the rounds on youtube at the moment. Watch out for the theater Northside accent on the UCD graduate. Related video is relevant

Maybe his accent is put on but there are plenty of northsiders in UCD.

Debator

Quazzie wrote: »

Hi Dave. Are ya having a good Xmas?

Odd comment. My name isn't Dave.

mikom wrote: »

But Oz is so good.............so why come home?

I'm not an emigrant. I've never been to Oz. But thanks for proving my point at the bitter, cynical attitude of some Irish towards the others that have gone abroad.

mikom

mikom wrote: »

But Oz is so good.............so why come home?

Debator wrote: »

I'm not an emigrant. I've never been to Oz. But thanks for proving my point at the bitter, cynical attitude of some Irish towards the others that have gone abroad.

Touchy.
It was just a question.
Maybe your thin skin could do with a dose of OZ sunshine to leather it up a bit.

Debator

mikom wrote: »

Touchy.
It was just a question.
Maybe your thin skin could do with a dose of OZ sunshine to leather it up a bit.

Ad hominem.

B.A._Baracus

pmcmahon wrote: »

I think people should bring this up more.But going to a different country on a one year work visa isn't emigration.We have thousands of people going on working holidays technically,not thousands of emigrants.

Thats the thing.
Candian visas are 2 years and Australian visas are only 1 year. Its still a great life experience and a chance to earn a few bob more than what you would have over here. But you still got to come back.

ordinary_girl

Debator wrote: »

Watch out for the theater Northside accent on the UCD graduate.

Emmet Kirwan (the guy in the video) is actually from Tallaght. He didn't go to UCD either.

Wils110

A. Few of friends have being refused the 2nd year visa after all the farm work an that they would be. a mixture of professionals and tradesmen there worse to listen to

supackofidiots

Oz is shite and overrated. Far away hills are greener and all that bollox.

mikom

Debator wrote: »

Ad hominem.

You know where the report button is.
Mind you don't graze your skin pushing it.

Lollipops23

What I hate is the stuck up attitude of some of the emmigrants who come home-thet piss and moan about missing home when they're away and then when they come home all they talk about is how "amaaaazing" life is in Oz etc.

Ireland's not THAT bad, so they need to stop dumping on it every chance they get.

My name is URL

Moaning about people moaning about others who moan about others

Really breaking the mould there OP

Quazzie

Debator wrote: »

Odd comment. My name isn't Dave.

Well you stated that the video was "doing the rounds" but it only has under 300 views. Sticking it up as part of a thread in After Hours where and linking to it rather than embedding it would be a really good method to get some views and publicity for it. Would you not agree?

B.A._Baracus

Quazzie wrote: »

Well you stated that the video was "doing the rounds" but it only has under 300 views. Sticking it up as part of a thread in After Hours where and linking to it rather than embedding it would be a really good method to get some views and publicity for it. Would you not agree?

In fairness it has the usual "301" views.
Thats the cut-off point for youtube to start processing genuine youtube hits and then updating the counter.

You've never seen a recently uploaded video that had thousands of comments but yet only 301 views? there is a cool video explaining why it stops on youtube.

Froyo

I've travelled a lot, living in divergent places for periods of time and until recently I always felt there was more to life than living in Ireland....

But the reality is (for me anyway): the grass really is always greener. All my friends are here. Some who've been my friends for more than 20 years.

You can't have that when you move away. OK, you make new friends, but not like the ones you can depend on for anything, anything at all. And you've worked hard to build all these relationships.

Ireland is not perfect, far from it obviously, but it's home for me and I like it. Ireland is quite unique. We've some great sights and sounds here.

There are so many seemingly small things here that you miss while abroad, but you realise they all make up something unique about this country and it's people.

As for those who emigrate, best of luck, but I just don't think it's for me.

I don't want Christmas on the beach, every Tom, Dick and Harry walking around with guns, I don't want to live somewhere where I have to check my shoes for deadly spiders (the Irish ones freak me out enough, thanks! ), I don't want to spend my holidays coming back to Ireland, I don't want to fly half way around the world if a family member gets sick, if I want to visit main land Europe for a weekend, I can, I don't want to have to watch United games at 7am, I want to enjoy them with my friends, who I don't have to schedule a phone call with because of time differences...

.. these are the things I think about. For those they're not relevant to, well I certainly wouldn't be grudge them a happy life elsewhere.

I think it's the few who bad mouth Ireland while back visiting are the issue here.

ToxicPaddy

I've never lived abroad and no need to look at going for the moment as I'm current employed and happy where I am, but i certainly hold no grudges towards those who have left, whether it be out of necessity or simply for a new adventure and in search of a better quality of life. It's a big and brave decision to make for most.

However its not all rosy for those who have emigrated and from speaking to some guys and girls who were back for the Xmas hols, the impression I got is most would much prefer to be back home or at least somewhere closer to home as their family and friends are all still here.

clairefontaine

I don't know if it's so much begrudgery aimed at people who left but more resentment that those left behind are sticking it out, trying to ride the storm rather than bail ship.

No doubt there is a lingering feeling of abandonment as people see their loved ones leave and the talent hemoragging.

The celtic tiger was the one chance for trans generational continuity and we blew it.

ProudDUB

Debator wrote: »

One thing I've noticed though is the bitterness among those who never left towards those who did. They begrudge the fact that you are enjoying your life abroad and have a bit of money to spend in the pub and do a bit of traveling. They would prefer if you were miserable in Ireland, wasting your youth away on the dole.

No offence, but you don't get to speak for the thousands and thousands of Irish people who have family and friends living abroad. It is A LOT more complicated than that overly simple description imo. I spent most of my adult life living overseas, as have several of my family members. In my family, there is a certain amount of resentment amongst those who stayed towards those who left, that those who stayed had to deal with all the family drama over the years, that those who were gone really didn't.

There are all kinds of issues... parents getting older and not able to take care of themselves anymore, family members getting sick & needing long term care and support, the family home needing repairs, marriages breaking up, family members losing their jobs, people dying etc etc. The folks who stay have to deal with that stuff day in and day out. Those of us who are gone really don't. We are often perceived as being off living the high life in Oz or the US, having a grand old time unaffected by the day to day harsh realities of life back in Ireland.

Those of us who leave have our own issues to deal with of homesickness and isolation that the folks at home can't ever comprehend, which leads to yet more hidden resentment and anger. That's how is is in my family anyway, and the families of Irish friends of mine who also live over seas. It may or may not be so for you and your circle of family and friends, but what it definitely is not is a simple state of affairs that can be simply explained away by a few glib generalizations.

JohnMearsheimer

I spent 3 of the last 5 years abroad in the UK and Canada. The media really need to distinguish between proper emigrants and those away temporarily on working holiday visas. The truth is most Irish people in places like Australia and Canada will have to come back to Ireland at some point because they don't have the skills or experience necessary to get permanent residency.

I met a lot of Irish abroad that wouldn't shut up about how much they hated Ireland. That's their business I suppose but being abroad made me realise just how much I like living in Ireland. I liked living in the UK and Canada as well and made friends there but it just wasn't the same.

Lapin

Debator wrote: »

They begrudge the fact that you are enjoying your life abroad and have a bit of money to spend in the pub and do a bit of traveling. They would prefer if you were miserable in Ireland, wasting your youth away on the dole.

I think its that attitude that people who stay at home find more resentful.

There are few sights more pompous than that of a returned emigrant (especially someone on a one year working holiday visa) splashing the cash down the pub.

Believe it or not, there are people in Ireland who do work and have their own money in their pockets.

I speak as someone who has worked in various countries over many years.

Rented Mule

Nothing like a thread about begrudging people for begrudging/not begrudging begrudgers.

That's the Irish way !!

dd972

A lot of the Irish who went to the UK in the 50/60's and their offspring are looked down upon by older Irish people who stayed ( a lot of whom view them as failed Irish people or some sort of sub breed of non traveller itinerants ) and by the current crop of whizz kid post grads that currently move to the UK who want nothing to do with them ( viewing them as a church and gaa orientated anachronism and not representative of funky,modern day,secular Ireland )

admiralofthefleet

Debator wrote: »

There are many reasons why young people emigrate - some leave out of frustration at the lack of suitable job opportunities Ireland provides; others simply go for the craic. Who wouldn't prefer tanning on a beach in Oz over shivering in your wet socks in Carlow? But it's Christmas time now and a lot of young Irish emigrants have returned home to enjoy the festive fun with their families.

One thing I've noticed though is the bitterness among those who never left towards those who did. They begrudge the fact that you are enjoying your life abroad and have a bit of money to spend in the pub and do a bit of traveling. They would prefer if you were miserable in Ireland, wasting your youth away on the dole.

This video is doing the rounds on youtube at the moment. Watch out for the theater Northside accent on the UCD graduate. Related video is relevant

whats a theatre northside accent?

is it the accent that is heard all over tallaght, ballybrack, dolphins barn, crumlin and lots of other places that are all on the southside?

Mr. Manager

I left and I hate myself

Miss Lockhart

Debator wrote: »

Who wouldn't prefer tanning on a beach in Oz over shivering in your wet socks in Carlow?

Me for one.

I am delighted for anybody who is enjoying themselves abroad - either on a working holiday or setting up a permanent home. I, however, am perfectly happy in Ireland and I have no time for those who choose to regale me with their tedious stories of "crazy" times on Bondi Beach or whatever and condescend to me about how sh!t Ireland is. I'm always interested to hear from those who have made a proper life for themselves and their families abroad - but they're usually the ones with some perspective and some manners.

Killer Wench

I always wonder - how do you fix things when much of the population chooses to bail rather than stay?

Einhard

Killer Wench wrote: »

I always wonder - how do you fix things when much of the population chooses to bail rather than stay?

I don't think people "choose to bail". I didn't anyway. I had to leave because I couldn't get a job here. Your choice of words seems very dismissive of those who have left.

Mr. Manager

Einhard wrote: »

I don't think people "choose to bail". I didn't anyway. I had to leave because I couldn't get a job here. Your choice of words seems very dismissive of those who have left.

I left by choice. There was job opportunities in Ireland after being made redundant (not many mind you). Luckily, the same jobs were going in Gibraltar and Malta. Didn't think about it for a second before accepting the job here.

philologos

To be honest, I just wanted to live somewhere else. I probably could have got work if I stuck around Dublin, but I thought it was a good opportunity after university to try and live somewhere else, and I'm enjoying it. Is that really so bad?

I just watched that video, it's intentionally built to pull at heartstrings, but I don't really regret leaving. It's not saying that there's anything horrific about Dublin, but I'm just enjoying my life elsewhere.

Killer Wench

Einhard wrote: »

I don't think people "choose to bail". I didn't anyway. I had to leave because I couldn't get a job here. Your choice of words seems very dismissive of those who have left.

I'm not limiting my perspective to strictly the Irish experience, but mostly on my own experience of watching the educated and resourceful leave behind tribal communities so that they could settle in urban centers.

DrumSteve

Im currently living and working in Canada, really enjoying and liking it here. However I do see myself coming home at some stage.

I make a point (if people ask me) to really big up Ireland. Regardless of anything else, its really a great place with a lot of great people.

MadsL

Friend of mine spent 12 years in Saudi Arabia, found it very difficult to find work coming back even in the boom. She found it a very hostile attitude about having worked abroad in her professional career.

Debator

My name is URL wrote: »

Moaning about people moaning about others who moan about others

Really breaking the mould there OP

And now you're moaning.

Delicious, the irony is.

9959

ordinary_girl wrote: »

Emmet Kirwan (the guy in the video) is actually from Tallaght. He didn't go to UCD either.

Not sure about the rambling 'blog like' monologue, but credit to Emmet Kirwan, who in my opinion has a 'presence' and is very believable, perhaps a role, however small, in the next installment of 'Love/Hate' might be an idea.

Credit also to lights/ cameras, excuse the cliche, but it is 'beautifully shot'.

Best supporting Actor award goes to...

......Dublin by night!

No one begrudges, cares, is jealous or gives a fek about me leaving Ireland because really, all they wonder is why the hell am I living in Vietnam for the last two years and the foreseeable future.

giant_midget

In regards to Australia...

Emigration is not getting a 1 year working holiday visa for australia.

Emigration is not spending all your time and money in the tea gardens with all the other embarassing Irish people with farmers tans.

Emigration is not living in a hovel in bondi drinking cheap wine with a clothes line full of gaa jerseys and skyping your mother asking her to send you over some "barrys tea"

ItsNoAlias

I dont get the begrudgery at all. Personally I envy those who are either away or came back. Seeing the world and expanding your horizions is something to be lauded not looked down on. Fair play to them and I wish them the best of luck.

gramar

Personally I emigrated because my missus is from another country.
Some people seem to think that it's a bit of a holiday but I have to get up and go to work like everyone else. It's not all non-stop parties and bucket loads of easy cash.
In fact financially I'd be much better off if I'd stayed at home and would have been happy to do so. I'd still be delighted to return but life has taken me elsewhere and I'm happy where I am. I just fail to understand why poeple sometimes equate
emigration with automatic riches and success. People get up and go to work and go about their business and face the same problems pretty much everywhere and going home at Christmas or whenever you can isn't a pity visit to see the poor relations.

pickarooney

Deleted User wrote: »

No one begrudges, cares, is jealous or gives a fek about me leaving Ireland because really, all they wonder is why the hell am I living in Vietnam for the last two years and the foreseeable future.

Show them this thread and blame us?

BraziliaNZ

Deleted User wrote: »

all they wonder is why the hell am I living in Vietnam for the last two years and the foreseeable future.

I'd be there for the cheap prostitutes

Eve_Dublin

I haven't encountered too much bitterness about the fact that I emigrated as most of my friends live abroad as well and most of my family have emigrated at one stage or another. One thing I'm very conscious of though is the fact that I can't criticise Ireland in any way shape or form in the eyes of some (not all). I was never one to criticise Ireland anyway as I love the place and originally only left for university in 2004 but some people even get touchy when I comment on the expensive and essentially **** transport system. Madrid has a far superior transport system to Dublin/Ireland and it's seen as a boast by some if I even say that. I didn't build the Madrid Metro ffs but objectively, it is a better transport system and you do wonder why can't our government use theirs as a template for our own.

That's just an example. I've also encountered some hostility when I comment on the weather ffs.

Many people feel that because I don't live here anymore, I don't have a right to comment, particularly when it comes to politics. The fact that I can't even vote says it all. I have no voice here anymore. I can't go home to Ireland and a large part of that is down to our feckless politicians and how they ran the country in the last 15 years.....surely emigrants are among those most affected and in turn, that gives us the right to criticise?

And I'm also Irish and the fact that I live in Spain doesn't change that.

I'm not talking about making sweeping comparisons that you find here in AH ("Spain is sooooo much better than Ireland!!" Eh....it really isn't) about what a **** hole Ireland is compared to most other countries in the world but to even make simple observations not based on opinion but on fact.

Ironically, I can't vote in Spain either and the Spanish get just as tetchy when a foreigner like myself, even one that's lived there over 3 years, criticises.

It's not a nice feeling to feel so impotent. Sob.

LordSutch

Debator wrote: »

There are many reasons why young people emigrate - some leave out of frustration at the lack of suitable job opportunities Ireland provides; others simply go for the craic. Who wouldn't prefer tanning on a beach in Oz over shivering in your wet socks in Carlow? But it's Christmas time now and a lot of young Irish emigrants have returned home to enjoy the festive fun with their families.

One thing I've noticed though is the bitterness among those who never left towards those who did. They begrudge the fact that you are enjoying your life abroad and have a bit of money to spend in the pub and do a bit of traveling. They would prefer if you were miserable in Ireland, wasting your youth away on the dole.

This video is doing the rounds on youtube at the moment. Watch out for the theater Northside accent on the UCD graduate. Related video is relevant

I've never understood this begrudgery amongst some Irish people. Every country has people who emigrate for many reasons, and Ireland is no different. Take Australia for instance, which is full of English people, Irish people, Scots + many other nationalities, so what's the problem?

Emigration either short term or permanent is a personal choice, some do some don't.