Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread II

GerM

tolosenc wrote: »

D'arcy, I reckon, will be done once Kidney is. The only reason McFadden hasn't gotten a shot at 12 yet is, I'm pretty sure, that Kidney is unaware that he is actually a centre covering the wing out of necessity. Certainly, in his current form, he needs to be in the team.

I'd agree McFadden is on fire currently. He has been playing excellently and I don't think I've ever seen him display such strong, consistent performances in any position. I'd attribute a portion of that though to him playing regularly in a role that really suits him. When his side have possession, he can roam infield, punching holes and attacking the fringes with his freakish leg drive and aggression. When in defence, he's out wider where he's less likely to be forced into a positional decision where he has been exposed previously. I say leave him where he is, he's playing great stuff there and getting better.

CatFromHue

tolosenc wrote: »

D'arcy, I reckon, will be done once Kidney is. The only reason McFadden hasn't gotten a shot at 12 yet is, I'm pretty sure, that Kidney is unaware that he is actually a centre covering the wing out of necessity. Certainly, in his current form, he needs to be in the team.

McFadden asked Schmidt to pick him, when possible, in the one position at the start of the season as it would help him get some form. It's worked but that position is the wing not 12.

Kidney has mentioned that they've been watching Luke Marshall (he said it before the Fiji game) and if he gets ahead of Wallace for the big games between now and the 6N I'd say he could get the Ireland jersey. If not I hope it's D'arcy as I'm not keen on the idea of BOD and Earls in the centre again.

Actually does anyone know when Earls will be back?

irishbucsfan

CatFromHue wrote: »

Actually does anyone know when Earls will be back?

There was promising news on Earls this week. Could be back for the HEC I believe

ed7890

CatFromHue wrote: »

Actually does anyone know when Earls will be back?

The papers yesterday were saying Earls would be back for the weekend.

Been impressed with Marshall the last while, especially in defense, good solid tackler.

Fireball07

CatFromHue wrote: »

McFadden asked Schmidt to pick him, when possible, in the one position at the start of the season as it would help him get some form. It's worked but that position is the wing not 12.

Kidney has mentioned that they've been watching Luke Marshall (he said it before the Fiji game) and if he gets ahead of Wallace for the big games between now and the 6N I'd say he could get the Ireland jersey. If not I hope it's D'arcy as I'm not keen on the idea of BOD and Earls in the centre again.

Actually does anyone know when Earls will be back?

I don't know if Marshall will get ahead of Wallace though, Wallace has been excellent this season and is key to how Ulster play imo.

And Earls might be back this weekend.


I wouldn't be totally against a BOD-Earls partnership, although I do think we should be trying to develop 12s.

BOD-McFadden/McSharry/Marshall with Earls and Gilroy on the wings with Zebo at full-back would be good imo.

Tox56

CatFromHue wrote: »

McFadden asked Schmidt to pick him, when possible, in the one position at the start of the season as it would help him get some form. It's worked but that position is the wing not 12.

Kidney has mentioned that they've been watching Luke Marshall (he said it before the Fiji game) and if he gets ahead of Wallace for the big games between now and the 6N I'd say he could get the Ireland jersey. If not I hope it's D'arcy as I'm not keen on the idea of BOD and Earls in the centre again.

Actually does anyone know when Earls will be back?

He had a run of games at 12 early season and was impressive there too, injuries and D'Arcy put him back on the wing. He has been in great form all season, I don't think the position is key

CatFromHue

For Leinster he's started:

12 x 3 (Treviso, Munster, Exeter)
14 x 5 (Connacht x 2, Lanelli, Clermont x 2)
11 x 3 (Cardiff, Zebre, Ulster)

I think for me if he is still playing predominantly on the wing for Leinster by 6N time I'd only be looking at him as a winger for Ireland. Injuries withstanding of course.

totallegend

tolosenc wrote: »

D'arcy, I reckon, will be done once Kidney is. The only reason McFadden hasn't gotten a shot at 12 yet is, I'm pretty sure, that Kidney is unaware that he is actually a centre covering the wing out of necessity. Certainly, in his current form, he needs to be in the team.

That sort of overlooks the fact that Schmidt has never picked him at 12 ahead of D'Arcy either.

Fishooks13

totallegend wrote: »

That sort of overlooks the fact that Schmidt has never picked him at 12 ahead of D'Arcy either.

That's the thing. It's hard to talk about the likes of Marshall and McFadden starting at 12 for Ireland when they've Darcy and Wallace picked ahead of them for big provincial games

bilston

Fishooks13 wrote: »

That's the thing. It's hard to talk about the likes of Marshall and McFadden starting at 12 for Ireland when they've Darcy and Wallace picked ahead of them for big provincial games

Tomorrow's Ulster team announcement will be interesting. As well as Paddy has been playing there is no doubt that Luke has caught up fast and maybe it could be time for him to step up. Even if he does get the Ulster 12 shirt for the HEC games it's hard to imagine anyone but D'Arcy starting against Wales. But I would say that Marshall got the better of D'Arcy in the head to head before Christmas and while that may not have any bearing in the short term it at least bodes well for the future.

Tox56

The Marshall situation is different to McFadden's though. Ferg is so versatile if there are any injuries in an area he can cover, he will be moved out there. D'Arcy would have been difficult enough to displace if McFadden had been a specialist 12, but that was never really going to happen if he plays 12 one week, winger the next, and then covers 13 for Ireland...

I believe Marshall can play 10, but its pretty clear that his future is at 12, and he has been identified as the potentially being the next Irish 12 for a while now. Wallace is also probably going to be easier to displace than D'Arcy (although I suppose with the form Wallace is in that's debatable).

Higher

Yeah when was the last time Ferg's been in a fully fit Leinster backline? Perhaps he would have started games ahead of D'arcy by now if not for the injuries to in particular Fitzgerald

RoundBox11

Higher wrote: »

Yeah when was the last time Ferg's been in a fully fit Leinster backline? Perhaps he would have started games ahead of D'arcy by now if not for the injuries to in particular Fitzgerald

Well how often do leinster have a fully fit backline anyway?

Higher

RoundBox11 wrote: »

Well how often do leinster have a fully fit backline anyway?

Well D'arcy can't cover wing. When was the last time we had Fitzgerald, Nacewa and Kearney (because Nacewa goes to FB usually) all fit?

totallegend

Higher wrote: »

Yeah when was the last time Ferg's been in a fully fit Leinster backline? Perhaps he would have started games ahead of D'arcy by now if not for the injuries to in particular Fitzgerald

Semi vs Clermont last year was the last fully fit backline. D'Arcy started, Ferg on the bench.

Higher

totallegend wrote: »

Semi vs Clermont last year was the last fully fit backline. D'Arcy started, Ferg on the bench.

Isn't that the point though? Its been a complete and utter rarity.

molloyjh

Higher wrote: »

Isn't that the point though? Its been a complete and utter rarity.

I think he might have displaced Darce this season but for the injuries. He played 12 in October when Darce was injured and did very well. His good form began there, not on the wing. Still though until we see him start ahead of Darce it's all academic. And he could well have to wait until next season at this stage.

totallegend

Higher wrote: »

Isn't that the point though? Its been a complete and utter rarity.

Yeah, but at no point has McFadden displaced D'Arcy. Even when there was a total shortage of centres, Schmidt still picked Goodman at 12 and D'Arcy at 13 when he could have picked Dave K (or Conway) and Isa on the wings with Ferg at 12.

I actually think Ferg's best position is 12 but it's wrong to say that D'Arcy is only clinging on to his Ireland place because Kidney is a fan (which is what kicked this off).

CIARAN_BOYLE

totallegend wrote: »

Yeah, but at no point has McFadden displaced D'Arcy. Even when there was a total shortage of centres, Schmidt still picked Goodman at 12 and D'Arcy at 13 when he could have picked Dave K (or Conway) and Isa on the wings with Ferg at 12.

I actually think Ferg's best position is 12 but it's wrong to say that D'Arcy is only clinging on to his Ireland place because Kidney is a fan (which is what kicked this off).

D Kearney was injured at the time, he featured off the bench for 22 minutes in one of those games was clearly not fit at all so its wrong to say he was an option.

Conway was an option and we could have seen McFadden in the center but it would probably had a similar result to the Darcy/McFadden combo last year. Neither is creative enough to pair with each other really. EOM BOD and Goodman are all creative centers but Darcy/McFadden not really and imo you need one creative center in a partnership

It could have been a Goodman/McFadden pairing but can you really see Schmidt leaving Darcy on the bench so someone like Conway could play?

irishbucsfan

D'Arcy has justified his starting place completely, it amazes me how much he's continually underrated (for Leinster more so). McFadden has been excellent on the wing for Leinster though. I think he's putting pressure on Trimble in the Irish camp and could be a great option at 11 against a team like Italy.

totallegend

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

D Kearney was injured at the time, he featured off the bench for 22 minutes in one of those games was clearly not fit at all so its wrong to say he was an option.

Conway was an option and we could have seen McFadden in the center but it would probably had a similar result to the Darcy/McFadden combo last year. Neither is creative enough to pair with each other really. EOM BOD and Goodman are all creative centers but Darcy/McFadden not really and imo you need one creative center in a partnership

It could have been a Goodman/McFadden pairing but can you really see Schmidt leaving Darcy on the bench so someone like Conway could play?

No, I could see Schmidt leaving Goodman on the bench so he could accomodate his 'best' 12; whether McFadden/D'Arcy isn't creative enough or whether that even entered Schmidt's head is speculation.

Hopefully we'll have a fully fit backline for the Scarlets and Exeter games; I don't anticipate seeing McFadden at 12.

Higher

totallegend wrote: »

No, I could see Schmidt leaving Goodman on the bench so he could accomodate his 'best' 12; whether McFadden/D'Arcy isn't creative enough or whether that even entered Schmidt's head is speculation.

Hopefully we'll have a fully fit backline for the Scarlets and Exeter games; I don't anticipate seeing McFadden at 12.

To be honest I think it was more a case that

11.McFadden
12.Goodamn
13.D'arcy

is a lot safer than

11.Conway
12.McFadden
13.D'arcy

Thats down to Goodman over Conway than Goodman over McFadden in my opinion

Tox56

totallegend wrote: »

No, I could see Schmidt leaving Goodman on the bench so he could accomodate his 'best' 12; whether McFadden/D'Arcy isn't creative enough or whether that even entered Schmidt's head is speculation.

Hopefully we'll have a fully fit backline for the Scarlets and Exeter games; I don't anticipate seeing McFadden at 12.

I don't anticipate that either, considering how little he has played at 12 this season (mainly due to the reasons people have outlined above), and how well he has been playing on the wing. It wouldn't make sense to move him now, but that doesn't mean he isn't seen as a 12.

Next season will hopefully be McFadden's chance to make the 12 jersey his. If we have most of our wingers fit he won't be needed out there (like he was this season), and that's when he can get a run in the centre.

Problem for him is that any injury to an important winger will most likely see him moved out there, regardless of how well he is playing at 12.

accidentprone1

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

D Kearney was injured at the time, he featured off the bench for 22 minutes in one of those games was clearly not fit at all so its wrong to say he was an option.

Conway was an option and we could have seen McFadden in the center but it would probably had a similar result to the Darcy/McFadden combo last year. Neither is creative enough to pair with each other really. EOM BOD and Goodman are all creative centers but Darcy/McFadden not really and imo you need one creative center in a partnership

It could have been a Goodman/McFadden pairing but can you really see Schmidt leaving Darcy on the bench so someone like Conway could play?

Maybe a stupid question but have we seen an Earls/McFadden centre combination for Ireland yet? Surely that gives the creative centre you're looking for with Earls, and McFadden provides the more straight forward aggression (terrible wording for Ferg's qualities here - wasn't sure how to phrase it)

irishbucsfan

The problem with McFadden is he'll be 27 by next season and will still have hardly ever spent a full season at 12. I think Leinster owe it to him at this stage to pick a position for him and keep him there from now on, allow him to specialise.

Lelantos

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The problem with McFadden is he'll be 27 by next season and will still have hardly ever spent a full season at 12. I think Leinster owe it to him at this stage to pick a position for him and keep him there from now on, allow him to specialise.

Water boy? Quality H2O

totallegend

Higher wrote: »

Thats down to Goodman over Conway than Goodman over McFadden in my opinion

Yeah, fair enough, but this is all a bit of a tangent to the main argument, which is that some people are claiming McFadden would be displacing D'Arcy at Leinster were it not for injuries to wingers.

I wholeheartedly disagree with that.

CIARAN_BOYLE

accidentprone1 wrote: »

Maybe a stupid question but have we seen an Earls/McFadden centre combination for Ireland yet? Surely that gives the creative centre you're looking for with Earls, and McFadden provides the more straight forward aggression (terrible wording for Ferg's qualities here - wasn't sure how to phrase it)

They played together for the Ireland A team that won the Churchill cup. McFadden was player of the tournament as well. Not sure if it was in 07 or 09. We've never seen in the senior team. In fact we've never seen McFadden at 12 in the senior team.

irishbucsfan

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

They played together for the Ireland A team that won the Churchill cup. McFadden was player of the tournament as well. Not sure if it was in 07 or 09. We've never seen in the senior team. In fact we've never seen McFadden at 12 in the senior team.

I'm afraid that isn't quite historically accurate.

Earls played 12 for Ireland in the Churchill Cup in 2008. He was beside Darren Cave and Kieran Lewis. Ireland A came 3rd.

McFadden played 13 for Ireland A in the Churchill Cup in 2009. I think Keith Matthews was at 12 and maybe even Downey in the smaller games. Ireland A won the tournament and McFadden was "MVP."

CIARAN_BOYLE

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I'm afraid that isn't quite historically accurate.

Earls played 12 for Ireland in the Churchill Cup in 2008. He was beside Darren Cave and Kieran Lewis. Ireland A came 3rd.

McFadden played 13 for Ireland A in the Churchill Cup in 2009. I think Keith Matthews was at 12 and maybe even Downey in the smaller games. Ireland A won the tournament and McFadden was "MVP."

ok my mistake. You are right that they didn't play together in 2009 anyway, just remembered Earls was on the Lions tour then