Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread II

jm08

gally74 wrote: »

This is thgr real benefit of Eric giving youth be chance,

JJ was beside marmion at the last u 20 WC/, look how much marmion has developed since

Marmion & Henshaw got their chance (and took them) because of injuries to Murphy, Duffy & O'Donoghue. If ROG & Keatley got injured, JJ would also be starting.

phog

thomond2006 wrote: »

When he was back fit a few weeks ago he was stuck on the wing with Henshaw remaining at fullback. To me that's a sign that Duffy won't get his place back. IMO Henshaw is a better option at the moment than him, even though I have massive time for Duffy as a 15.

Was that because Connacht needed cover for the wing and Duffy is a better winger than Henshaw or because Henshaw is now seen as their No1 FB

Edited to correct Henshaw as it auto corrected to He Shaw

Podge_irl

Marmion got his chance cause all the other scrum halves in contact are crap

thomond2006

phog wrote: »

Was that because Connacht needed cover for the wing and Duffy is a better winger than Henshaw or because He Shaw is now seen as their No1 FB

I don't know tbh, but the latter is how I saw it.

jm08

thomond2006 wrote: »

Who would you pick now? Hurley or Henshaw? If you had to select between the two.

I'm not arguing for Henshaw to displace Kearney mind. But if Kearney was hurt I know who I would pick if Zebo had to play on the wing.

An awful lot of ifs and buts - in a 6Ns game I'd say the pecking order would be Kearney, Zebo, Earls, Luke Fitz. I wouldn't have either Hurley or Henshaw involved, not because I don't think Henshaw isn't a good player, but I think he would be better utilised with the U20s or Wolfhounds.

However, for the tour to Canada & USA - I'd bring Hurley so that Henshaw could go to the world cup.

thomond2006

I'd rather Henshaw was involved in the national setup. All the other sides have no issue with fastracking youngsters, why should we?

jm08

jm08 wrote: »

An awful lot of ifs and buts - in a 6Ns game I'd say the pecking order would be Kearney, Zebo, Earls, Luke Fitz. I wouldn't have either Hurley or Henshaw involved, not because I don't think Henshaw isn't a good player, but I think he would be better utilised with the U20s or Wolfhounds.

However, for the tour to Canada & USA - I'd bring Hurley so that Henshaw could go to the world cup.

thomond2006 wrote: »

I'd rather Henshaw was involved in the national setup. All the other sides have no issue with fastracking youngsters, why should we?

If Henshaw was involved in the national set-up all that would happen to him is he would be holding tacklebags as he isn't going to be picked before Kearney or Zebo in the 6Ns. IMO, he would be better off getting experience against decent opposition in a competitive tournaments (U20s 6Ns & Junior World cup) where he will be building up gametime with some of the Ireland team of the future.

Higher

I'd have him above Zebo at FB on current form.

Hagz

Higher wrote: »

I'd have him above Zebo at FB on current form.

I can see where you're coming from, but I don't agree. I think Zebo is the form back in Ireland right now. The confidence he's showing is amazing for a 21 year old.

Yesterday he took it upon himself to stand in at 10 for 3 or 4 phases and then capped it off by running in for a try, and he looked pretty decent at 10 as well. For a young lad like him to just take control like that inside the opposition half speaks volumes about where his confidence levels are at. Outside of Kearney, Zebo is the best in the air and he has a roaring left boot, so he has the skills set to be a more than capable 15.

Fishooks13

Hagz wrote: »

I can see where you're coming from, but I don't agree. I think Zebo is the form back in Ireland right now. The confidence he's showing is amazing for a 21 year old.

Yesterday he took it upon himself to stand in at 10 for 3 or 4 phases and then capped it off by running in for a try, and he looked pretty decent at 10 as well. For a young lad like him to just take control like that inside the opposition half speaks volumes about where his confidence levels are at. Outside of Kearney, Zebo is the best in the air and he has a roaring left boot, so he has the skills set to be a more than capable 15.

This.

Henshaw's day will come but as Hagz said, Zebo's the form back in Ireland right now and he's got all the attributes to be a 15 too.

Henshaw is very good under a high ball. But he doesn't anyhting close to the same attacking prowess as Zebo.

Sindri

bilston wrote: »

I think that after the last two weeks Luke Marshall has every chance of getting the Ulster 12 shirt for the upcoming HEC games, if that happens then I think he'll be a genuine contender, he definitely got the better of D'Arcy last week, but if he doesn't start for Ulster he won't start for Ireland.

I don't think so. I doubt Anscombe would want to leave such an experienced and capable player out of the side when Ulster want to secure a home quarter-final.

Fishooks13

What are peoples 15's for the Welsh game? At the moment mine would be:

15 Zebo
14 Gilroy
13 Cave
12 D'arcy
11 Earls
10 Sexton
9 Murray
8 Heaslip
7 SOB
6 Henderson
5 D Ryan
4 McCarthy
3 Ross
2 Best
1 Healy

16 Cronin/Sherry
17 Kilcoyne
18 Bent
19 DOC
20 POM
21 Marmion
22 Jackson
23 McFadden

CIARAN_BOYLE

I'd give Court the 17 shirt ahead of Kilcoyne, if he is fit Kearney would wear 15 with Zebo or Timble ahead of Earls at 11

Henry ahead of POM on the bench, Earls to force McFadden out of the squad at 23

Hagz

1. Cian Healy
2. Rory Best
3. Mike Ross
4. Donnacha Ryan
5. Mike McCarthy
6. Sean O'Brien
7. Chris Henry
8. Jamie Heaslip
9. Conor Murray
10. Jonathan Sexton
11. Simon Zebo
12. Gordon D'Arcy
13. Brian O'Driscoll
14. Craig Gilroy
15. Rob Kearney

Fishooks13

Should add I didn't include BOD an Kearney because I'm not sure when they're back, also, Earls might not actually be back either

jm08

Fishooks13 wrote: »

What are peoples 15's for the Welsh game? At the moment mine would be:

15 Zebo
14 Gilroy
13 Cave
12 D'arcy
11 Earls
10 Sexton
9 Murray
8 Heaslip
7 SOB
6 Henderson
5 D Ryan
4 McCarthy
3 Ross
2 Best
1 Healy

16 Cronin/Sherry
17 Kilcoyne
18 Bent
19 DOC
20 POM
21 Marmion
22 Jackson
23 McFadden

I think the preferred U20s partnership at halfbacks was Jackson & McGrath & Hanrahan & Marmion. Marmion wasn't really rated until the U20s world cup -up to that he was behind McGrath.

Deano7788

jm08 wrote: »

I think the preferred U20s partnership at halfbacks was Jackson & McGrath & Hanrahan & Marmion. Marmion wasn't really rated until the U20s world cup -up to that he was behind McGrath.

So? Since then Marmion has come on massively, showing the benefit of giving a young player gametime. Don't really know what point you're trying to make here.

Fishooks13

jm08 wrote: »

I think the preferred U20s partnership at halfbacks was Jackson & McGrath & Hanrahan & Marmion. Marmion wasn't really rated until the U20s world cup -up to that he was behind McGrath.

Point being? Marmion's been fantastic anytime I've seen him this season, not to mention how good he was for the U20's

jm08

The point is that Jackson/Marmion wasn't used as a partnership. Jackson is better with a P Marshall/Luke McGrath partner.

Deano7788

jm08 wrote: »

The point is that Jackson/Marmion wasn't used as a partnership. Jackson is better with a P Marshall/Luke McGrath partner.

Marmion started 2 of the 6 Nations games to McGrath's 3 so it was used. He also starts outside Pienaar in the big games, not Marshall. When Marshall comes on, it's often for Jackson with Pienaar going to 10, so I don't think it's fair to say this. I also don't think it's a reason for one of them not to be on the bench

bilston

15 Zebo
14 Gilroy
13 O'Driscoll
12 D'Arcy
11 Earls
10 Sexton
9 Murray
1 Healy
2 Best
3 Ross
4 Ryan
5 McCarthy
6 O'Brien
7 Henry
8 Heaslip

The noises are that BOD will be fit for the 6Ns in fact isn't there chat that he could be back for next weekend? Haven't heard anything on Kearney so I haven't considered him.

wp_rathead

Current form, what ye guys think the Wolfhounds team on Jan 25th should be?

Hype710

Wolfhounds: Henshaw, D Kearney, O'Malley, McSharry, O'Halloran, Jackson, Marshall, Kilcoyne, Sherry, Bent, Henderson, Toner, Ruddock, O'Donnell, Coughlan.

Hype710

Will be interesting to see what happens with Henshaw. AFAIK there are Rabo games on only 2 of the Six Nations weekends, but Connacht might prefer to have him rested instead of playing for the Under 20s. I think I'd rather that tbh and let someone else play for the 20s. Felix Jones got his chance in similar circumstances when Luke Fitzgerald was ruled out (albeit through injury).

Higher

15.Henshaw (if Kearney is not back)
14.Gilroy
13.BOD
12.D'arcy
11.Zebo
10.Sexton
9.Marmion
1.Healy
2.Best
3.Ross
4.Ryan
5.McCarthy
6.O'Brien
7.Henry
8.Heaslip

bilston

wprathead wrote: »

Current form, what ye guys think the Wolfhounds team on Jan 25th should be?

Nearly impossible to say but players I'd like to see are Henshaw, O'Donnell and Stevenson. I'd imagine JJ Hanrahan is a long shot. I'll throw Michael Allen's name into the mix as well but again that's probably unlikely

jm08

Deano7788 wrote: »

Marmion started 2 of the 6 Nations games to McGrath's 3 so it was used. He also starts outside Pienaar in the big games, not Marshall. When Marshall comes on, it's often for Jackson with Pienaar going to 10, so I don't think it's fair to say this. I also don't think it's a reason for one of them not to be on the bench

Jackson & Marshall did well in the early season together when Pienaar was off with SA.

A break down of Marmion & McGrath's gametime for U20s.

6Ns
McGrath 254mins - 5 games (av mins per game 50.8.
Marmion: 146 mins - 5 games (av. 29.2 mins).

World Cup:
McGrath: 117 mins - 4 games (av. 29.25 mins)
Marmion: 203 mins - 4 games (av, 57.5 mins).

If Jackson was used during the 6Ns, I suspect that he would be put with Reddan or a similar type SH, not Marmion (though I think Jackson form isn't great at the moment and Marmion's is).

bilston

Hype710 wrote: »

Will be interesting to see what happens with Henshaw. AFAIK there are Rabo games on only 2 of the Six Nations weekends, but Connacht might prefer to have him rested instead of playing for the Under 20s. I think I'd rather that tbh and let someone else play for the 20s. Felix Jones got his chance in similar circumstances when Luke Fitzgerald was ruled out (albeit through injury).

Yep there's no need for him to play 20s. By all means send him to the JWC for tournament experience but he'll develop better with Connacht than with the 20s during the Junior 6Ns.

It also gives someone else a shot and that can only be a good thing.

Podge_irl

It is beyond irrelevant as to how Marmion compared with McGrath at U20s level. The only relevant point is that he is now playing the much better rugby at the higher level.

jm08

Podge_irl wrote: »

It is beyond irrelevant as to how Marmion compared with McGrath at U20s level. The only relevant point is that he is now playing the much better rugby at the higher level.

I'm not comparing them. I'm saying that Jackson & McGrath was thought to work as a complimentary partnership and Hanrahan & Marmion (and not Hanrahan & McGrath) was regarded as good working partnerships.

Its like Leinster fans would prefer Reddan with Sexton because Reddan is a zippy type scrumhalf and Murray isn't.