Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread II

Podge_irl

I think you're putting too much emphasis on partnerships. I don't think Marmion playing most of the games in the HEC had anything to do with JJ and everything to do with Marmion simply playing a lot better than McGrath. A fact borne out by how McGrath played when he came on.

I preferred Reddan to Murray because I thought he was a better scrum half. It had nothing to do with partnerships.

Deano7788

jm08 wrote: »

I'm not comparing them. I'm saying that Jackson & McGrath was thought to work as a complimentary partnership and Hanrahan & Marmion (and not Hanrahan & McGrath) was regarded as good working partnerships.

Its like Leinster fans would prefer Reddan with Sexton because Reddan is a zippy type scrumhalf and Murray isn't.

Your logic is flawed though, by virtue of the fact that Jackson wasn't at the world cup for one. How do we know that McGrath wasn't just viewed as being in better form in the 6 Nations and Marmion was in better form in the 6 Nations and would have played more regardless of the outhalf.

Lelantos

Higher wrote: »

15.Henshaw (if Kearney is not back)
14.Gilroy
13.BOD
12.D'arcy
11.Zebo
10.Sexton
9.Marmion
1.Healy
2.Best
3.Ross
4.Ryan
5.McCarthy
6.O'Brien
7.Henry
8.Heaslip

Forget Henshaw, the Wales game is a must win game for Deccie, its Kearney, Zebo, Earls & Hurley all ahead or him. Marmion hasn't a cat in hells chance of being anything but a bag holder in training squads, other than that, I agree with the 13 others

jm08

Podge_irl wrote: »

I think you're putting too much emphasis on partnerships. I don't think Marmion playing most of the games in the HEC had anything to do with JJ and everything to do with Marmion simply playing a lot better than McGrath. A fact borne out by how McGrath played when he came on.

I preferred Reddan to Murray because I thought he was a better scrum half. It had nothing to do with partnerships.

I disagree - if you look at every U20s side for the last couple of years provincial partnership were favoured when possible.

2008: Martin Dufficy/Dave Moore (Leinster)
2009: Andrew Burke/Conor Murray (Munster) / Ian Madigan/Matthew Healy (Leinster)
2010: Paddy Jackson/Blane McIlroy (Ulster). Cathal Marsh/Peter du Toit (Leinster.

There were a few more partnerships like that where one or other of them has disappared from pro rugby at this stage, while those who didn't do too well at underage levels seem to be prospering now.

jm08

Deano7788 wrote: »

Your logic is flawed though, by virtue of the fact that Jackson wasn't at the world cup for one. How do we know that McGrath wasn't just viewed as being in better form in the 6 Nations and Marmion was in better form in the 6 Nations and would have played more regardless of the outhalf.

I'd say that McGrath & Hanrahan are similar type players but Marmion compliments Hanrahan's style of play more. Jackson is a bit more controlling, more defensively minded and McGrath gives the team a bit of an attacking spark.

Hagz

I thought this was the u20 thread for a second.
What the hell is going on ?!

Deano7788

Hagz wrote: »

I thought this was the u20 thread for a second.
What the hell is going on ?!

jm08 is trying to argue that Marmion and Jackson shouldn't be on the bench together because McGrath started 3 games to Marmion's 2 with Jackson in the u20 6 Nations, while Marmion started more games alongside Hanrahan in the world cup.

jm08

Hagz wrote: »

I thought this was the u20 thread for a second.
What the hell is going on ?!

Just pointing out that its highly unlikely that you will see Jackson & Marmion together on the bench for the 6Ns - it will be one or the other and going on form, its more likely to be Marmion.

dtpc191991

15.Zebo (if Kearney is not back)
14.Gilroy
13.BOD (Cave if not fit)
12.McSharry
11.Earls
10.Sexton
9.Murray
1.Healy
2.Best
3.Ross
4.Ryan
5.McCarthy
6.O'Brien
7.Henry
8.Heaslip

Deano7788

jm08 wrote: »

I'd say that McGrath & Hanrahan are similar type players but Marmion compliments Hanrahan's style of play more. Jackson is a bit more controlling, more defensively minded and McGrath gives the team a bit of an attacking spark.

Your just guessing, though. It's equally likely the 2 scrum halves were just in better form at different times.

jm08 wrote: »

Just pointing out that its highly unlikely that you will see Jackson & Marmion together on the bench for the 6Ns - it will be one or the other and going on form, its more likely to be Marmion.

I agree we won't see them together, in fact we won't see either of them. The bench will be Reddan and ROG. We were just saying what we would like to see.

Hagz

Deano7788 wrote: »

It's equally likely the 2 scrum halves were just in better form at different times.

I would say its far far far more likely.

Fishooks13

Deano7788 wrote: »

Your just guessing, though. It's equally likely the 2 scrum halves were just in better form at different times.

Exactly. Jmo8 is reading into it way too much. The whole partnership aspect is not that relevant at 9 and 10 anyway

jm08

Deano7788 wrote: »

Your just guessing, though. It's equally likely the 2 scrum halves were just in better form at different times.

I agree we won't see them together, in fact we won't see either of them. The bench will be Reddan and ROG. We were just saying what we would like to see.

And you know for a fact and are not guessing!:D

The Wolfhounds game against the Saxons will be more telling (whether it will be Jackson/Marshall or Jackson/Marmion).

Hagz

jm08 wrote: »

The Wolfhounds game against the Saxons will be more telling (whether it will be Jackson/Marshall or Jackson/Marmion).

Illogical. If it's Jackson/Marshall, it will have nothing at all to do with anything that went on at u20 level. I know that for a fact.

jm08

Fishooks13 wrote: »

Exactly. Jmo8 is reading into it way too much. The whole partnership aspect is not that relevant at 9 and 10 anyway

Have you not noticed that the more players play together, the better they get.

Gatland said something to the effect a couple of weeks ago that he would be sticking to existing partnerships as much as possible for the Lions because of the lack of time to training/playing time together (Stephen Jones/Dwayne Peel/Mike Phillips started the most Tests together on the last two tours).

jm08

Hagz wrote: »

Illogical. If it's Jackson/Marshall, it will have nothing at all to do with anything that went on at u20 level. I know that for a fact.

Its nothing to do with what went on at the U20s. Its to do with familiarity with and style of players available. The U20s is just an example of it in action.

thomond2006

It looks like the Leinster backline will be back to full strength over the coming weeks, the return of BOD, Fitzgerald and Kearney is timely.

irishbucsfan

jm08 wrote: »

Its nothing to do with what went on at the U20s. Its to do with familiarity with and style of players available. The U20s is just an example of it in action.

Just like how Sexton always plays with Reddan and never with Murray?

Oh wait...

jm08

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Just like how Sexton always plays with Reddan and never with Murray?

Oh wait...

... and Sexton never plays with Boss either (i.e., style of player is relevant). You might have had a point if you had said Sexton always plays with Boss and never Murray

irishbucsfan

jm08 wrote: »

... and Sexton never plays with Boss either (i.e., style of player is relevant). You might have had a point if you had said Sexton always plays with Boss and never Murray

I never said anything about the style of any player. You said provincial partners play together

jm08

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I never said anything about the style of any player. You said provincial partners play together

This is what I posted:

Originally Posted by jm08
Its nothing to do with what went on at the U20s. Its to do with familiarity with and style of players available. The U20s is just an example of it in action.

irishbucsfan

jm08 wrote: »

This is what I posted:

Originally Posted by jm08
Its nothing to do with what went on at the U20s. Its to do with familiarity with and style of players available. The U20s is just an example of it in action.

And Murray had no familiarity with Sexton, but tons of familiarity with Reddan, so clearly it's not a priority at senior level, at least for us.

tolosenc

irishbucsfan wrote: »

And Murray had no familiarity with Sexton, but tons of familiarity with Reddan, so clearly it's not a priority at senior level, at least for us.

Playing two scrumhalves? :P

jm08

irishbucsfan wrote: »

And Murray had no familiarity with Sexton, but tons of familiarity with Reddan, so clearly it's not a priority at senior level, at least for us.

Sexton & Murray had been training/playing together at the world cup for about 4 months. Even at that Sexton & Murray didn't start together until this 6Ns.

You do realise that Reddan & Boss are in their 30s now and both are stop gap international scrumhalfs more than anything else.

ireland01

Dont see how kilcoyne could possibly be ahead of Denis Buckley, hes more experienced and is better in the scrum, didnt concede an inch to Ross even though he had played 60 mins of rugby while Ross was fresh off the bench. Think he won penaltys on Bent who is supposedly 2nd for Ireland

tolosenc

1. Healy
2. Best
3. Ross
4. Ryan
5. McCarthy
6. Ferris
7. O'Brien
8. Heaslip
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. McFadden
12. McSharry
13. O'Driscoll
14. Zebo
15. Kearney

16. Strauss
17. Court
18. Bent
19. Tuohy
20. Henry
21. Reddan
22. Madigan
23. Gilroy

Blackheath

When is the squad being picked for the Wolfhounds game against the Saxons?

Who is actually taking charge for the game?

irishbucsfan

Does BOD's return to fitness mean we'll see a BOD/Earls partnership again at some point in this 6 Nations?

totallegend

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Does BOD's return to fitness mean we'll see a BOD/Earls partnership again at some point in this 6 Nations?

Christ but I hope not. There'll be a lot of clamour for it, Tony Ward and Keith Wood to be the most vocal, but what would it serve?

In Earls, we have a decent 13. In Cave, we have another decent 13 who may even get a chance to show what he can do once Kidney gets the bullet. If we have to wait another few months for one or other of them to take the jersey as first-choice, so be it.

We are waaaay further behind in terms of developing a replacement 12. D'Arcy is still the best option, Wallace is still second best, Downey is pants and McFadden is playing most of his rugby on the wing. Our focus should be on developing players in our weak positions and with the age profile of D'Arcy and Wallace, we're looking dodgy.

The big hope is Marshall but he needs game time, so I'd much rather see Marshall at 12 with Sexton and O'Driscoll either side of him to ease him into international rugby than see an O'Driscoll-Earls partnership, the only function of which would be to accommodate Earls.

Edit: should probably mention McSharry in there as well...

tolosenc

D'arcy, I reckon, will be done once Kidney is. The only reason McFadden hasn't gotten a shot at 12 yet is, I'm pretty sure, that Kidney is unaware that he is actually a centre covering the wing out of necessity. Certainly, in his current form, he needs to be in the team.