Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread II

ScissorPaperRock

Nice bit on Schmidt too

http://www.thescore.ie/joe-schmidt-ireland-opinion-1286729-Jan2014/



Really getting in the mood for this!!!

MongotheBongo

.ak wrote: »

Now we all know where Murray gets his wonderful indepth knowledge on the game from.


Me. :cool:

That really does look lifted.

.ak

MongotheBongo wrote: »

That really does look lifted.

Nah, I doubt it. Kinsella is a great journo. It's a pretty accepted tactic from Schmidt for years also - it's just funny how soon it was after my post.

rrpc

That bit about pausing the DVD as a player is scoring a try and pointing to one of the lads and asking him what he thought he was doing and what would have happened had the try scorer been tackled.

I'd say the first time he did that, the expressions in the room must have been priceless

DDC1990

.ak wrote: »

Nah, I doubt it. Kinsella is a great journo. It's a pretty accepted tactic from Schmidt for years also - it's just funny how soon it was after my post.

You are Murray Kinsella.

.ak

DDC1990 wrote: »

You are Murray Kinsella.

No, no, he's AMAZING. I'm just a lowly mod.

Kanrith

Apparently Davies could be back for the Ireland game.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/wales/25928553

rrpc

Kanrith wrote: »

Apparently Davies could be back for the Ireland game.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/wales/25928553

That could be fun :pac:

ionadnapokot

Bring it on!

we "only" have to stop North
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3kxC2c5xOM

ionadnapokot

This still hurts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocmxtY-ngds

I hope this type of drift/passive defending has been eradicated by Ireland.

Fireball07

Tox56 wrote: »

I don't THINK they plan on playing Jones but don't see him as needed by Munster next week whereas Zebo would hugely benefit from that gametime. If they aren't planning to play him (Zebo) it would be stupid to keep him in the squad, same is not true of Jones. Same logic means Kilcoyne, Archer, Strauss, Gilroy and Boss/Marmion were also cut

Just getting to reply to this now... I get what you're saying.


But in that case, how about Cave & Henshaw? Is there a need for both of them + BOD to be in the squad right now?

And going on similar logic, it would point to McFadden starting imo, he could probably have used another game to get back up to speed.

And maybe Henderson too, he's not started much recently.

padser

Swiwi. wrote: »

Totally totally agree. World class for me is the best player in the world in their position and their backup. For me it's Healy and possibly SOB by those strict criteria.

For me World Class is being in the top 3 players in the world in your position. I don't think it's fair to say because there is one outhalf head and shoulders above everyone else that means there is just one world class outhalf (Incidentaly, while I don't disput Dan Carter as the best outhalf, playing outhalf for NZ is a hell of a lot easier then for anyone else, albeit with huge expectations and pressure).

By that metric the Irish players that are arguably world class are

Healy
SOB
Heaslip
POC (but only if you count the two lock positions seperately which doubles the number of available lock world class designations!)
Sexton

The one Irish Player who is undisputedly world class is, of course, Zebo. An injury called up unused Lions tourist with 6 caps and one amazing flick and amazing lawyers to clear up the Internet after him ;-)

Swiwi.

padser wrote: »

For me World Class is being in the top 3 players in the world in your position. I don't think it's fair to say because there is one outhalf head and shoulders above everyone else that means there is just one world class outhalf (Incidentaly, while I don't disput Dan Carter as the best outhalf, playing outhalf for NZ is a hell of a lot easier then for anyone else, albeit with huge expectations and pressure).

By that metric the Irish players that are arguably world class are

Healy
SOB
Heaslip
POC (but only if you count the two lock positions seperately which doubles the number of available lock world class designations!)
Sext

Healy yes. SOB yes. Heaslip no (Read, Vermeulen, Parisse, Picamoles). POC yes with your logic about considering 4 & 5 seperately, otherwise no. Sexton - judgement deferred until after this 6N for the reasons I've outlined many times before about not yet having transferred his often stellar Leinster form to the international game - to which I am usually berated with a raft of indignant responses, and to which I am immune :pac:

Edit: Depending on how Conor Murray goes this 6N, he may also be considered world class in my books

danthefan

Swiwi. wrote: »

Edit: Depending on how Conor Murray goes this 6N, he may also be considered world class in my books

Don't agree tbh, he's a very good player but all the best scrum halves are in the southern hemisphere, needs to be tested against them more.

Swiwi.

danthefan wrote: »

Don't agree tbh, he's a very good player but all the best scrum halves are in the southern hemisphere, needs to be tested against them more.

Yeah, we'll see. He's much improved. Definitely the best in the NH. Genia on form is untouchable, Du Preez has his moments, as does Smith, but Conor is on the rise. Not world class yet, but could be come 6N's end. Or am I jinxing him - hopefully not!

former legend

Swiwi. wrote: »

Yeah, we'll see. He's much improved. Definitely the best in the NH. Genia on form is untouchable, Du Preez has his moments, as does Smith, but Conor is on the rise. Not world class yet, but could be come 6N's end. Or am I jinxing him - hopefully not!

Murray is definitely the best scrum half in the NH? That's... debatable.

Mahatma Geansai

molloyjh wrote: »

A point to note for some: A 6Ns game is not the place to get players familiar with systems and plays. That is done in training. In the 6Ns each and every game is a must win (especially home games), not a chance for a player to get things wrong and learn from his mistakes. The margins are very small at this level and the best players for the job need to be selected.

When are players expected to gain familiarity with the system? Joe stuck with players that he had experience with during the Autumn Internationals, and players who missed out then are missing out now as they have yet to be given the opportunity to gain meaningful experience with Schmidt.

Fireball07

former legend wrote: »

Murray is definitely the best scrum half in the NH? That's... debatable.

Who's better?


I think there was a case for Youngs and Care before the summer, but I definitely think he's better than them now.

Leaving the French lads... some very talented players there, but they don't know who their best 9 is and I don't think I'd take any of them over Murray.

shuffol

More great analysis from Kinsella, this time on Henderson.

http://www.thescore.ie/iain-henderson-ireland-six-nations-1287383-Jan2014/

His maul work is particularly impressive, he's barely started a game this season but you'd be very tempted to fit him into the 23, he looked a step above physically against the Saxons.

former legend

Fireball07 wrote: »

Who's better?


I think there was a case for Youngs and Care before the summer, but I definitely think he's better than them now.

Leaving the French lads... some very talented players there, but they don't know who their best 9 is and I don't think I'd take any of them over Murray.

Philips?

I think Laidlaw is quality too but I'll be laughed out of it for saying that on here because he plays for a crap team and is therefore crap himself.

Murray is in the conversation but he's not definitely the best.

Fireball07

former legend wrote: »

Philips?

I think Laidlaw is quality too but I'll be laughed out of it for saying that on here because he plays for a crap team and is therefore crap himself.

Murray is in the conversation but he's not definitely the best.

Murray has been better than Phillips for a couple of years, Phillips is really really inconsistent.

Laidlaw is good, but I definitely rate Murray higher.


I would say both of those are definitely below him.

Molester Stallone

former legend wrote: »

Philips?

I think Laidlaw is quality too but I'll be laughed out of it for saying that on here because he plays for a crap team and is therefore crap himself.

Murray is in the conversation but he's not definitely the best.

No. Think people were laughing when you said Phillips, we never got to Laidlaw

Swiwi.

former legend wrote: »

Murray is definitely the best scrum half in the NH? That's... debatable.

Hit me with your alternatives! I'm really judging it on international stuff + games involving Irish teams, as I never watch Top 14, Aviva premiership etc. So there may well be better out there.

.ak

Swiwi. wrote: »

Healy yes. SOB yes. Heaslip no (Read, Vermeulen, Parisse, Picamoles). POC yes with your logic about considering 4 & 5 seperately, otherwise no. Sexton - judgement deferred until after this 6N for the reasons I've outlined many times before about not yet having transferred his often stellar Leinster form to the international game - to which I am usually berated with a raft of indignant responses, and to which I am immune :pac:

Edit: Depending on how Conor Murray goes this 6N, he may also be considered world class in my books

Tbh I think Heaslip is better than those 8s you mentioned, apart from Read because he's in god mode. Although picamoles is better than him in other aspects. Tbh I think when it boils down to it the two lions are the best 8s in the NH; Toby and jamie

Swiwi.

.ak wrote: »

Tbh I think Heaslip is better than those 8s you mentioned, apart from Read because he's in god mode. Although picamoles is better than him in other aspects. Tbh I think when it boils down to it the two lions are the best 8s in the NH; Toby and jamie

I hope Jamie has a great 6N - last years will not be in the almanac to show the grandkids, even he would admit that I think! The Welsh match is really whetting my appetite, and Jamie v Toby is one such reason.

Fireball07

.ak wrote: »

Tbh I think Heaslip is better than those 8s you mentioned, apart from Read because he's in god mode. Although picamoles is better than him in other aspects. Tbh I think when it boils down to it the two lions are the best 8s in the NH; Toby and jamie

Hmm... dunno about that. Heaslip and Faletau are very good, but Picamoles is very talented too.

Swiwi.

.ak wrote: »

Tbh I think Heaslip is better than those 8s you mentioned, apart from Read because he's in god mode. Although picamoles is better than him in other aspects. Tbh I think when it boils down to it the two lions are the best 8s in the NH; Toby and jamie

You also have to remember Parisse largely plays with dross around him, and still shines. Age might be starting to catch up with him though.

former legend

Swiwi. wrote: »

Hit me with your alternatives! I'm really judging it on international stuff + games involving Irish teams, as I never watch Top 14, Aviva premiership etc. So there may well be better out there.

As I said, Phillips is a quality SH, he gets a raw deal because he's a bit of a muppet off the pitch but his ability is, IMO, not in question.

If you're arguing that Parisse deserves recognition for playing with dross around him, then what about Greg Laidlaw? Not the most glamorous SH but in terms of importance to his team, he's right up there.

Parra, Machenaud, Care, Youngs all have to come into the discussion, give Rhys Webb a year or so.

Murray is in the mix alright, but definitely the best scrum-half in the NH? I don't see it.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

former legend wrote: »

As I said, Phillips is a quality SH, he gets a raw deal because he's a bit of a muppet off the pitch but his ability is, IMO, not in question.

If you're arguing that Parisse deserves recognition for playing with dross around him, then what about Greg Laidlaw? Not the most glamorous SH but in terms of importance to his team, he's right up there.

Parra, Machenaud, Care, Youngs all have to come into the discussion, give Rhys Webb a year or so.

Murray is in the mix alright, but definitely the best scrum-half in the NH? I don't see it.

I think he gets a raw deal because he's decidedly average at the core duties of a scrumhalf

former legend

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

I think he gets a raw deal because he's decidedly average at the core duties of a scrumhalf

This is going to be twisted around on me and it's only a matter of time before someone accuses me of having a go at Murray or being anti-Munster but;

If you were picking on the basis of who the best exponents of the basics of scrum-half play, I'm not sure Murray would be top of the list either. His speed to the base of the ruck and slickness of passing are aspects of his game he has worked on and improved massively but he is not 100% there yet.