Do you personally know any Irish Jews?

Chuck Stone

Siuin wrote: »

a fake explosive was tied to the gates of the synagogue and the bomb squad was called in. Another time bloodied baby shoes were left on the steps.

Wow! Nasty shit.

mayotom

coolhull wrote: »

Even if I met a Jewish person, how would I know? I'm hardly going to ask their religion, and I wouldn't expect them to ask mine. And as far as I know, they don't have any distinguishing features that makes them stand out from the crowd.

that's the point, The Irish Jew's that I know, I would have known for a couple of years, before realising they were jewish.

Also I have Canadian jewish friends, who I worked with everyday for 5 years and spoke to regularly. But it was 5 years before any mention of religion came up, frankly I don't care what people's religion is, it has no effect on my life or my interaction with me. I do not know my girlfriends religious background, I have never felt the need to ask and she has not either. It has no bearing on our everyday lives

Siuin

Siuin wrote: »

Jewish stereotypes can be very cruel and I really don't see why anyone should find it acceptable to go down that road and make another person uncomfortable. I don't know any Jewish person who would not take offence to comments being passed about them being miserly or having a big nose. It was really hurtful as a teenager to be made feel different and even now as a 'grown up' (of sorts!) I still feel very self conscious of trying to prove stereotypes wrong that I find mysef obsessing about it. Also, a person needs to take the historical context into consideration when making such statements.

Whether or not someone would feel uncomfortable would be down to an individual no?

Some people have big noses. Others don't. It's generally not a very kind thing to make reference to either way.

You're a sensitive soul.

As for the synagogue stuff, first time I heard about Muslims not eating bacon was in the 90s when they first started having prayer meetings in the town I live in and someone decided to throw some rashers around the hall before they got there. Similar and worse has happened on and off since, some people just have an awful lot of time on their hands.

looksee

Deleted User wrote: »

Missed this bit, but are you not generalising a bit here? I don't mind Irish stereotypes in the right circumstances, or fat-guy ones, or the other ones about categories I fall into. Is it a specific Jewish trait or maybe just a personal one for you?

Its easy to not mind Irish stereotypes when you are Irish living in Ireland, though in fact I do know of some Irish people who go out of their way to complain about being stereotyped. Can you imagine!

I know two Jewish people, one is a jeweller, so there's a stereotype, but in fact he is a completely honest, decent, generous person who I would trust to give me a genuine valuation - and have. So there's a stereotype shot down. The other I had no idea, in spite of his name being a clue, until he told me. A totally 'un-jewish' looking person. And a lovely guy. It is totally ridiculous to generalise about anyone based on race or colour or religion or country of origin.

mikemac1

mattjack wrote: »

This area .....
Portland Row, North Strand Road, Seville Place, Amiens Street and Killarney Street.

Its a junction in Dublin , fairly famous .

Yeah, there's a Jewish cemetery in Ballybough/Fairview

The area wouldn't be known as a Jewish area at all now though

It was over 100 hundred years ago

lapsed

Siuin wrote: »

Specific to Ireland. People really have no idea what goes on. I don't want to post too many details about it on such a public forum, but the amount of security around the synagogues in Dublin is much, much higher than most people realise. I grew up in an area where a fake explosive was tied to the gates of the synagogue and the bomb squad was called in. Another time bloodied baby shoes were left on the steps. We frequently have weirdos trying to gain access to the synagogues or lurking around outside before and after services.

Really shít times almost always corrospond with what's happening with Israel

. Cast Lead was a very bad time.

Yet they'll insist that they're anti-Zionist, not anti-semetic.

looksee

looksee wrote: »

Its easy to not mind Irish stereotypes when you are Irish living in Ireland, though in fact I do know of some Irish people who go out of their way to complain about being stereotyped. Can you imagine!

Wow, so like, some people are different?

I know two Jewish people, one is a jeweller, so there's a stereotype, but in fact he is a completely honest, decent, generous person who I would trust to give me a genuine valuation - and have. So there's a stereotype shot down. The other I had no idea, in spite of his name being a clue, until he told me. A totally 'un-jewish' looking person. And a lovely guy. It is totally ridiculous to generalise about anyone based on race or colour or religion or country of origin.

I love the "in fact" there.:rolleyes:

Madam_X

I remember in The Simpsons Lisa had a crush on a teacher voiced by Dustin Hoffman and she referred to his "Semitic good looks". Would you not agree some Jewish people have certain physical attributes Siuin? Like, if someone said Ross from Friends looks typically Jewish it wouldn't necessarily be said as a perjorative. Highly unlikely it would be actually.

delthedriver

Siuin wrote: »

You would not believe how many times the nose thing crops up in otherwise 'polite' conversation. What would be considered completely socially unacceptable in countries with large Jewish communities (such as the US) is tolerated far too much here.

I remember being on a college night out in first year when a guy from my class announced to me that people always thought he was Jewish because he had a huge nose. Another time I was sitting at the dinner table with my (new) housemates when one started bitching about a guy in her class who apparently looked like a 'Jew' and a 'rat'. Had some fun drawing out some cringeworthy anti-semitic jibes before the girl beside her typed on her phone that I am Jewish and slid it across the table to her. Very embarrassing for the girl in question. And only 2 weeks ago I was hit on by a guy in a pub who, after asking about my name and realising that I'm Jewish, slid a penny across the table to me. I looked at him, confused and he sat in silence for a minute before whipping it back again and saying "wow, you didn't take it! are you sure you're Jewish??" The guy in question was German, as if it wasn't awkward enough.

So, yeah, moral of the story; stereotypes are BS. And it's not amusing for a Jewish person to hear them, no matter how cute or funny anyone thinks they are.

Well done Siuin, thank you for taking the time to post this pm. Having grown up with ,and educated alongside Jewish children, I am proud to say I have high regard for the Jewish Community in Ireland.
My Jewish friends were always most caring and respectful of others. The Jewish community in Ireland is part of our Heritage, we we should be proud of.
I would ask posters please to be a little more restrained in their postings, thankfully most of the posts have been positive. I would expect nothing less.
Perhaps it is appropriate to wish my Jewish friends happy Holidays, and Happy
Honnekah.

Siuin

Madam_X wrote: »

I'd be very suspicious too of loyalist paramilitaries who claim to support jews when they also have links with the NF. This "support" for Jews/Israel is, I'd wager, just a two fingers to republicans who tend to side with Palestine.

I agree 100%. The association between Israel/Palestine and Nationalism/Unionism is a major headache for the entire community and extremely damaging for all involved. In an ideal world, politics would never come into the synagogue, but unfortunately there's always someone who wants to stir things up.

Deleted User wrote: »

Whether or not someone would feel uncomfortable would be down to an individual no?

Well I'm telling you now: as someone who is heavily involved in the Jewish community, I do not know anyone who would not be offended by someone confronting them with Jewish stereotypes. Why even do it? It makes the speaker look ignorant and bigoted and the person they're addressing will feel (at best) uncomfortable.

Deleted User wrote: »

You're a sensitive soul.

No, I'm not actually. I've just had to put up with a lot of ignorance in the past and don't see why I shouldn't stand up against it and say "no, fúck that, that's wrong".

Deleted User wrote: »

As for the synagogue stuff, first time I heard about Muslims not eating bacon was in the 90s when they first started having prayer meetings in the town I live in and someone decided to throw some rashers around the hall before they got there. Similar and worse has happened on and off since, some people just have an awful lot of time on their hands.

I don't really know where you're going with this.

Siuin

Madam_X wrote: »

I remember in The Simpsons Lisa had a crush on a teacher voiced by Dustin Hoffman and she referred to his "Semitic good looks". Would you not agree some Jewish people have certain physical attributes Siuin? Like, if someone said Ross from Friends looks typically Jewish it wouldn't necessarily be said as a perjorative. Highly unlikely it would be actually.

I understand what people are looking for in 'Jewish' looks, but at the same time it's hard for me to comprehend one stereotypical Jewish look when I've been around Jews who are Ethiopian, Russian, Polish, Chinese, Moroccan, Yemenite etc.

Siuin

Siuin wrote: »

Well I'm telling you now: as someone who is heavily involved in the Jewish community, I do not know anyone who would not be offended by someone confronting them with Jewish stereotypes. Why even do it? It makes the speaker look ignorant and bigoted and the person they're addressing will feel (at best) uncomfortable.

What an amazingly homogenous community it must be.

No, I'm not actually. I've just had to put up with a lot of ignorance in the past and don't see why I shouldn't stand up against it and say "no, fúck that, that's wrong".

As far as I can remember it's mainly been American Jews I've spoken to and generally they seemed to have little issue with it.

I don't really know where you're going with this.

I just think most of this kind of thing is small-minded bigots targetting the nearest thing to them whether it's a synagogue, islamic centre or even protestant churches which are still hit with amazing regularity. Obviously there'll be some exceptional and specific incidents.

Siuin

Siuin wrote: »

but at the same time it's hard for me to comprehend one stereotypical Jewish look

No it's not, you're clearly being obtuse. Same as how if someone described Irish people as white when some aren't.

Siuin

Deleted User wrote: »

What an amazingly homogenous community it must be.

Jews are like anyone else when it comes to negative stereotypes- they don't appreciate them.

Deleted User wrote: »

I just think most of this kind of thing is small-minded bigots targetting the nearest thing to them whether it's a synagogue, islamic centre or even protestant churches which are still hit with amazing regularity. Obviously there'll be some exceptional and specific incidents.

I've never been in an Irish mosque, so can't speak for their situation, but Protestant churches are 'hit with amazing regularity' ....?

lapsed

Siuin wrote: »

I understand what people are looking for in 'Jewish' looks, but at the same time it's hard for me to comprehend one stereotypical Jewish look when I've been around Jews who are Ethiopian, Russian, Polish, Chinese, Moroccan, Yemenite etc.

Remember the Grauniads Ben White who tweeted " If you need another reason to support a boycott, I present a massive picture of Howard Jackobsons face " ?

Siuin

Siuin wrote: »

Jews are like anyone else when it comes to negative stereotypes- they don't appreciate them.

When it's used to set up a punchline the few I spoke to didn't mind, same as me. My favorite joke is about the Irish famine. It's the only good one I've ever heard about the famine as well. :pac:

I've never been in an Irish mosque, so can't speak for their situation, but Protestant churches are 'hit with amazing regularity' ....?

Where I am anyway. Small graveyards will he headstones tipped over or marked, the churches will have windows smashed, insides vandalised etc. A few years ago some kind of wooden table was stolen and someone was caught trying to sell it a few months later. :pac: It doesn't seem to really be reported as such any more. Hell even the Catholic-ish Churches seem to be getting targetted a lot, someone came close to getting a fire to take hold on one here about 4 years ago, again I only heard about it because I was on Jury Duty, didn't hear it reported anywhere at the time.

Siuin

Deleted User wrote: »

No it's not, you're clearly being obtuse. Same as how if someone described Irish people as white when some aren't.

How is it? I'm telling you- look in any synagogue in Ireland and you won't find a bunch of curly haired, big nosed, brown eyed feckers looking back at you. However, if I'm ruining the dream for you, by all means continue to ignore what I'm telling you.

Siuin

Siuin wrote: »

How is it? I'm telling you- look in any synagogue in Ireland and you won't find a bunch of curly haired, big nosed, brown eyed feckers looking back at you. However, if I'm ruining the dream for you, by all means continue to ignore what I'm telling you.

Read the bit I quoted because it's referring to what you just described despite you not apparently not comprehending it.

Siuin

Deleted User wrote: »

When it's used to set up a punchline the few I spoke to didn't mind, same as me. My favorite joke is about the Irish famine. It's the only good one I've ever heard about the famine as well. :pac:

I've already told you the stance to stereotypes among the Jewish community. Many of the members are descendants of Holocaust survivors and there are a few actual survivors there too. Jews in Ireland are very aware of their minority status, and inappropriate jokes- especially from an outsider- are simply not welcomed. Americans have a certain level of 'comfort' in their numbers which Ireland does not afford us.

Deleted User wrote: »

Where I am anyway. Small graveyards will he headstones tipped over or marked, the churches will have windows smashed, insides vandalised etc. A few years ago some kind of wooden table was stolen and someone was caught trying to sell it a few months later. :pac: It doesn't seem to really be reported as such any more. Hell even the Catholic-ish Churches seem to be getting targetted a lot, someone came close to getting a fire to take hold on one here about 4 years ago, again I only heard about it because I was on Jury Duty, didn't hear it reported anywhere at the time.

Such incidents are relatively rare, which is why you won't find 2 security guards outside a church checking names and IDs and sweeping the premises for bombs as happens in the synagogues. Either way, be it a church, mosque, whatever- it's never acceptable for people to feal threatened in such a way.

Chuck Stone

I could never be Jewish.

I just like bacon sammiches far too much.

I'd love to try some Jewish food though.

lapsed

Chuck Stone wrote: »

I could never be Jewish.

I just like bacon sammiches far too much.

I'd love to try some Jewish food though.

Start with hummus. Tesco if you're nervous.

Siuin

Siuin wrote: »

I've already told you the stance to stereotypes among the Jewish community. Many of the members are descendants of Holocaust survivors and there are a few actual survivors there too. Jews in Ireland are very aware of their minority status, and inappropriate jokes- especially from an outsider- are simply not welcomed. Americans have a certain level of 'comfort' in their numbers which Ireland does not afford us.

So I'd best check where someone's from once they've mentioned they're Jewish? Gotcha. :pac:
Genuine question, I thought most of the Jews in Ireland were descendants of those who were here before the holocaust, did many come afterwards?

Such incidents are relatively rare, which is why you won't find 2 security guards outside a church checking names and IDs and sweeping the premise for bombs as happens in the synagogues. Either way, be it a church, mosque, whatever- it's never acceptable for people to feal threatened in such a way.

Again, you say they're rare but I'm genuinely struggling to think of a graveyard or church within 10 miles of me that hasn't at the very least been properly vandalised in the last 10 years or so that I know of. It's a stupidly common thing for bigots of every description. Threats aren't acceptable in any way. Would it be cheaper maybe to get CCTV to identify those who do such things rather that have people sweeping the place? Also surprising they need to check names with how small the community is. :pac:

Siuin

Deleted User wrote: »

So I'd best check where someone's from once they've mentioned they're Jewish? Gotcha.

Or you could, you know, not make lame jokes in the first place.

Deleted User wrote: »

Genuine question, I thought most of the Jews in Ireland were descendants of those who were here before the holocaust, did many come afterwards?

There are no figures for these kinds of things, but from what I've seen a lot of Cork's Jews came prior to the Holocaust due to pogroms in Eastern Europe, whereas Dublin has a number of Holocaust survivors and their relatives.

Deleted User wrote: »

Would it be cheaper maybe to get CCTV to identify those who do such things rather that have people sweeping the place?

They have that too. CCTV isn't enough by itself. Still don't know where we're going by comparing issues around synagogues to those experienced by other faiths- I never said that Jews were the worst off, I just stated that there have been security issues.

Red Hand

Deleted User wrote: »

So I'd best check where someone's from once they've mentioned they're Jewish? Gotcha. :pac:
Genuine question, I thought most of the Jews in Ireland were descendants of those who were here before the holocaust, did many come afterwards?

My mom worked with someone who was a survivor. It was only years later that she realised that cause of an interview on TV he did.[/quote]

Again, you say they're rare but I'm genuinely struggling to think of a graveyard or church within 10 miles of me that hasn't at the very least been properly vandalised in the last 10 years or so that I know of. It's a stupidly common thing for bigots of every description. Threats aren't acceptable in any way. Would it be cheaper maybe to get CCTV to identify those who do such things rather that have people sweeping the place? Also surprising they need to check names with how small the community is. :pac:

You're all ideas tonight.

Any more?:D

iCosmopolis

Probably not a good time to say my exact description is a big nosed, brown eyed curly(ish) dark haired fecker so :eek:

Siuin

Siuin wrote: »

Or you could, you know, not make lame jokes in the first place.

I agree, no jokes anymore in case someone thinks they're lame.

There are no figures for these kinds of things, but from what I've seen a lot of Cork's Jews came prior to the Holocaust due to pogroms in Eastern Europe, whereas Dublin has a number of Holocaust survivors and their relatives.

Think it was the lad in the museum thing in Dublin said the majority were from before.

They have that too. CCTV isn't enough by itself. Still don't know where we're going by comparing issues around synagogues to those experienced by other faiths- I never said that Jews were the worst off, I just stated that there have been security issues.

I didn't say you said anything, just that there's a lot of idiotic bigots of many types. I'm not excusing any of it.

Red Hand wrote: »

You're all ideas tonight.

Any more?:D

Think of it yourself, I'm struggling on whether or not to open the 5th bottle of wine. :pac:

Ava_e

My old next door neighbours were Jewish, a lovely couple, he was the most easy going auld lad ( a retired doctor ) who we would sometimes call over for little medical emergencies.

lapsed

Siuin wrote: »

There are no figures for these kinds of things, but from what I've seen a lot of Cork's Jews came prior to the Holocaust due to pogroms in Eastern Europe, whereas Dublin has a number of Holocaust survivors and their relatives.

Legend has it that they were fleeing the Limerick Pogrom and while waiting for passages out of Ireland Cork people made them welcome and quite a few stayed.

Siuin

Deleted User wrote: »

Think it was the lad in the museum thing in Dublin said the majority were from before.

He's probably right- Ireland had quotas and denied entry to a load of Jewish refugees before, during and directly after the Holocaust, including hundreds of children. Many of the descendants of survivors who now live in Ireland came over from the UK where they arrived through kindertransports. I was named after a family friend who survived the Holocaust by boarding a kindertransport. Finally got to meet him for the first time in Jerusalem recently- a very emotional moment.

Anyway, with that I bid everyone good night (לילה טוב!)

TeddyTedson

I know lots for whatever reason
Never would have thought there were so few.