Views of Pornography?

Eramen

orestes wrote: »

Ah, so we have gone from moralising about the societal and personal evils of porn, through the science of addiction and the roundabout of neuroscience, taken a slight detour down circumcision drive, and have safely arrived at our destination of hysterical soap-boxing. Think of the children, rabble rabble, dey tukk ar jaaabzzzz, etc..

Just knock one out man, all this stress isn't good for you.

I'm afraid not. I'm actually highlighting Brotherhood and masculinity, I feel all men should partake in it. You feel differently? You believe that the porn industry has had no cultural impact? Mind-blowing stuff. Why didn't you respond to the scientific explanation?

orestes

Eramen wrote: »

I'm afraid not. I'm actually highlighting Brotherhood and masculinity, I feel all men should partake in it. You feel differently? You believe that the porn industry has had no cultural impact? Mind-blowing stuff. Why didn't you respond to the scientific explanation?

Since I couldn't be bothered re-typing it, and you didn't bother reading it, I'm going to take the weird step of quoting myself

Daveysil15

Wow how did a light-hearted discussion about porn turn into such a deep and philosophical debate? I was only gone a few hours!

wexie

Eramen wrote: »

In a nutshell, all animals have reproduction time-cycles (the optimum intervals for sexual activity in regards to positive overall health), and humans are no exception.

After sex where ejaculation occurs there starts a recuperation period for both male and female in which the bio-chemical make-up of each sex reaches pre-copulation and normative levels which is required for the healthy functioning of all organisms, be it metabolism, brain functionality etc.

In rats this reproductive time cycle was observed to be 2-3 weeks. Now rats do copulate more frequently if they have several mates, but the longer they stay with the same mate the less they are prone to sexual activity, and thus fall back into natural sexual routines. If new mates are introduced the rat will go crazy in a frenzy of sexual activity. This known as the Coolidge effect - the automatic response to novel mates.

Porn is highly similar to this in that it produces novel mates in digital form for consumption by the user. The Coolidge effect becomes noticeable after new 'novel mates' pop up one after the other and compels the user to sexual activity. You see, evolution has prepared our brains in this manner to preserve the species via our genetic material. New mates equals more chances of survivability. The thing is, porn has turned this on its head. It becomes a question of sexing by habit, not by need or reproductive time cycles.


The problem is that when testosterone in releases with great frequency it upsets the chemical-hormonal balance of the body, a balance that is required for immune, mental and physical health in an optimum way. Often it manifests by way of fatigue, irritability, erectile dysfunction (now proven), sexual dysfunctions, stress, and depression.

We all know that low testosterone levels are a major contributing factor to disorders and disease, its just that now we know that it may actually be more threatening then we first anticipated.

On the addiction side, the dopamine released by constant sexual stimulation wrecks havoc with the brain receptors of the inner cortex, and normal pleasurable experiences become dull. This leads on to social/mental health problems as the addiction takes it toll as users seek greater highs and spend more time with the addiction. He/she literately doesn't know when to stop, even at the expense of his/her own health. This is why I say Evolution has not prepared our brain for porn and were all my arguments arise.

These are just some of the concerns I have. I first took on the No Fap challenge (90 days no Porn/Masturbation) out of interest, and the results were surprising to me. I actually function far better than I ever have, I feel like my body is at optimal levels and really feel younger physically speaking, better stability of mind, higher concentration & productivity and much better socially, with women and men in general (I was never bad with women before either) . I don't know the exact reason but bio-chemical properties reaching normal levels which regular masturbation/porn depleted certainly have a part to play.

Lastly, thank you for your post. It was the most intelligent response made to me here all day, a simple "Why do you believe in X?". It is a concise, logical question. I wish I was asked sooner so I could nail down the real questions people might have had sooner, and the discussion would have progressed. But people have their ideology.

Maybe now others will be willing to look into all this, it's not some kind of conspiracy et al, there is solid reasoning. Check out the links in my sig for more info, and also, don't hesitate to try out the challenge, it's an experience!

Can I just point out that some of us grownups actually (occasionally/regularly) might just possibly orgasm/ejaculate by means other than masturbation?

You know...the icky way?

So you're now telling me not only do I need to stop scratching Yoda behind the ears but I need to stop keeping herself happy?

Or is there some kind of optimum amount of marital intercourse we should stick to in order to stop society from collapsing? Please do enlighten me?

hooradiation

Daveysil15 wrote: »

Wow how did a light-hearted discussion about porn turn into such a deep and philosophical debate? I was only gone a few hours!

it actually didn't, it just kinda looks that way.

mikom

BroScience

Serious business.

Eramen

mikom wrote: »

BroScience

Serious business.

Religion-bashing, now science-bashing.. AH has no crutch left to stand on! OMG

Nodin

Eramen wrote: »

Religion-bashing, now science-bashing.. AH has no crutch left to stand on! OMG

....science is being bashed? Can't say I've noticed. People seem more interested in slagging off the nonsense you posted at the moment.

Eramen

wexie wrote: »

Can I just point out that some of us grownups actually (occasionally/regularly) might just possibly orgasm/ejaculate by means other than masturbation?

You know...the icky way?

So you're now telling me not only do I need to stop scratching Yoda behind the ears but I need to stop keeping herself happy?

Or is there some kind of optimum amount of marital intercourse we should stick to in order to stop society from collapsing? Please do enlighten me?

The reproduction time-cycle I talked about is all about normal sexual functions with among people and their time-scales/needs etc.

Porn though, being a form of self-sex though novelty mates is certainly not a part of this rule from an evolutionary sexual behavior standpoint. It's based around habit rather than actual sexual needs. The reason why it becomes habit based is because of the primal inner cortex receptors and their dopamine release, the substance which is the centerpiece for all compulsive or pleasurable activities.

Think a fat man eating a high calorie burger, why does he do it, even though he knows it's harmful to himself? It's because of the pleasure response. The same is true with porn addiction & masturbation, the only difference is people aren't aware of the potential hazards.

It's the dopamine release that is crucial to forming an addiction. Normal sexual relationships and everything that goes with them tends to not cause the receptor malfunction at all. You won't have to tell your woman "Soz, no seks 4 me" lol. You'd be a dead man if that were true.

Daveysil15

I think I've just walked into an encyclopedia.

Madam_X

There's nothing wrong with speculating that exposure to hardcore porn, with its very misogynistic overtones (I know the actresses choose to do the work and are paid well, but the depictions of them being subjugated are still disturbing; plus I don't get why there is so much dismissal for the suggestion that maybe some of them were abused when younger/are in those films to pay for addiction... it can be the case, and has been the case; I have researched it) from adolescence might cause those viewers to have a distorted view of sex and sexuality. Even though it's fantasy, that doesn't stop the line being blurred for some.

To use mainstream movies as an analogy: In the 1950s, Dracula, which just looks silly and camp now, had people leaving the cinemas, fit to be sick; in the 1970s it was the same for The Exorcist and The Texas Chainsaw Massacre - now those two films are tame.

My point is: while it's silly to suggest movies and video-games in and of themselves will cause people (who have no underlying issues) to do extreme stuff because they saw it in a movie/game, prolonged exposure DOES lead to desensitisation, so it's not unreasonable to wonder whether this could be problematic for teen sexuality today.

mikom

Eramen wrote: »

The reproduction time-cycle I talked about is all about normal sexual functions with among people and their time-scales.

Porn though, being a form of self-sex though novelty mates is certainly not a part of this rule from an evolutionary sexual behavior standpoint. It's based around habit rather than actual sexual needs. The reason why it becomes habit based is because of the primal inner cortex receptors and their dopamine release, the substance which is the centerpiece for all compulsive or pleasurable activities.

Think a fat man eating a high calorie burger, why does he do it, even though he knows it's harmful to himself? It's because of the pleasure response. The same is true with porn addiction & masturbation, the only difference is people aren't aware of the potential hazards.

It's the dopamine release that is crucial to forming an addiction. Normal sexual relationships and everything that goes with them tends to not cause the receptor malfunction at all. You won't have to tell your woman "Soz, no seks 4 me" lol. You'd be a dead man if that were true.

There is no evidence that fapping to internet porn causes negative changes in the dopamine-reward system. The case you pseudo-scienced about with the rats simply extrapolated from animal models.

BROSCIENCE.

kowloon

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

yeah you can get 16:9 now and widescreen

Don't forget 3D, it's very effective.

Nodin

Daveysil15 wrote: »

I think I've just walked into an encyclopedia.

...the 1858 Encyclopedia For Gentlemen.

Nodin

kowloon wrote: »

Don't forget 3D, it's very effective.

Now funny as the mockery is, we shouldn't forget the real human toll this medium can take.

Eramen

Madam_X wrote: »

There's nothing wrong with speculating that exposure to hardcore porn, with its very misogynistic overtones (I know the actresses choose to do the work and are paid well, but the depictions of them being subjugated are still disturbing; plus I don't get why there is so much dismissal for the suggestion that maybe some of them were abused when younger/are in those films to pay for addiction... it can be the case, and has been the case; I have researched it) from adolescence might cause those viewers to have a distorted view of sex and sexuality. Even though it's fantasy, that doesn't stop the line being blurred for some.

To use mainstream movies as an analogy: In the 1950s, Dracula, which just looks silly and camp now, had people leaving the cinemas, fit to be sick; in the 1970s it was the same for The Exorcist and The Texas Chainsaw Massacre - now those two films are tame.

My point is: while it's silly to suggest movies and video-games in and of themselves will cause people (who have no underlying issues) to do extreme stuff because they saw it in a movie/game, prolonged exposure DOES lead to desensitisation, so it's not unreasonable to wonder whether this could be problematic for teen sexuality today.

You are right. We can see the effects the film/Hollywood industry has had on popular culture and what's more is we can easily and openly discuss them. The same is not true for porn in the sense of discussion. People are not open to debate for this for one reason or another (embarrassing, why?) and insist that the porn industry is having no cultural impact at all. I think its rather silly to say that when we all know IT IS having cultural/social effects on society. It's had an impact in the same way that you have described with cinema.

You can't simultaneously claim that 'porn is a fact of life, people will use it for good or ill' and at the same time say it's had no social effects whatsoever. It's doesn't make any sense.

GalwayGuy2

@Madame X

Would women watching porn, with a misogynistic overtone, from a young age turn into misogynists?

And what do you think about E's notion of brotherly fraternity protecting society?

Brain Stroking

Eramen wrote: »

You are right. We can see the effects the film/Hollywood industry has had on popular culture and what's more is we can easily and openly discuss them. The same is not true for porn in the sense of discussion. People are not open to debate for this for one reason or another (embarrassing, why?) and insist that the porn industry is having no cultural impact at all. I think its rather silly to say that when we all know IT IS having cultural/social effects on society. It's had an impact in the same way that you have described with cinema.

You can't simultaneously claim that 'porn is a fact of life, people will use it for good or ill' and at the same time say it's had no social effects whatsoever. It's doesn't make any sense.

I'm sorry but you are going to need to show me some stats that porn is having a noticeable effect on society. Where are they? I am not talking about a study done by this group or that group. I am not talking about your opinion etc as that seems to be on one road only and therefore inadmissible. Where are the stats - cold hard stats and not just a feeling and not just what someone said in an article. I want to see where porn has had an effect - you've seen it as you say above. Enlighten everyone.
I'm about to walk home from work now. Will i see the effects on my way home?

Brain Stroking

GalwayGuy2 wrote: »

@Madame X

Would women watching porn, with a misogynistic overtone, from a young age turn into misogynists?

Would they not be more likely to turn into submissive types? I find that sometimes debates like these seem to underestimate the ability of any consumer to actually see what they are watching for what it is.

Madam_X

But Brain Stroking, I'm not suggesting those who watch porn immediately think that's how it's done and they're going to do it that way... however a more insidious, subconscious desensitisation to sexual acts that most people would rather not do though, in the same way that horror movies don't scare us today as they did 40 years ago... is that a possibility? I'm not saying it is, but I'm asking.

Eramen wrote: »

You are right. We can see the effects the film/Hollywood industry has had on popular culture and what's more is we can easily and openly discuss them. The same is not true for porn in the sense of discussion. People are not open to debate for this for one reason or another (embarrassing, why?) and insist that the porn industry is having no cultural impact at all.

I don't know how much of an impact it has had, but I'm simply saying there's nothing wrong with asking the question whether it has.
I would say discussion is stifled because of cat-calls of "prude" and "killjoy" and in the worst case scenario: "Man-hating bitch" - none of which necessarily apply of course. There are many who are at pains to show how liberated and edgy and no-holds-barred they are too.

GalwayGuy2 wrote: »

@Madame X

Would women watching porn, with a misogynistic overtone, from a young age turn into misogynists?

Well I didn't express any concern that hardcore porn (and I'm only talking about hardcore) would turn boys into misogynists. I simply said there is nothing wrong with being concerned that it might cause a warped view of sex/sexuality for some of those who have had easy access to it since adolescence.

And what do you think about E's notion of brotherly fraternity protecting society?

No opinion on that one.

Eramen

Legitimate question: How many of you guys watch porn regularly? (as if I will receive honest answers)

GalwayGuy2

Legitimate question: How many of you guys watch porn regularly? (as if I will receive honest answers)

Personally, I think we should fully legalize pornography and make it completely researchable by the government and various intrest groups. Background checks, psychiatric, protection, health-care if something happens, and thinking more about what your showing. Make some humour, or some loving, and teach, both men and women, respect for whichever gender they are attracted to.

@Madame X

Yeah, sorry I did put words into your mouth. It's just there's a current trend of thinking, man up campaign a little here, that all men are misogynists in waiting and I could go into the whole objectification thing, but I won't.

But Brain Stroking, I'm not suggesting those who watch porn immediately think that's how it's done and they're going to do it that way... however a more insidious, subconscious desensitisation to sexual acts that most people would rather not do though, in the same way that horror movies don't scare us today as they did 40 years ago... is that a possibility? I'm not saying it is, but I'm asking.

Tbf, that may not be a bad thing. As long as both parties are happy with it (and there isn't admittedly anything psychologically odd going on), it may be good to loosen people up about sexuality.

Richard Dower

Porn has become mainstream and more and more acceptable....the HUGE explosion in the number of performers in the last 5-10 years is shocking. Near;y 35,000 and with the recesson that number is climbing.

Mainstream movies are featuring pornstars more and more with some like Sasha Grey breaking through to the mainstream. It has become more socially acceptable and will continue to be.

Corkfeen

Eramen wrote: »

Legitimate question: How many of you guys watch porn regularly? (as if I will receive honest answers)

I don't watch porn regularly, in fact it doesn't appeal to me particularly(when I was younger it would have) however you only appear to intend on accepting answers where people say they're addicted. I hope the view is nice from up there .....*waves*

Eramen

Madam_X wrote: »

I don't know how much of an impact it has had, but I'm simply saying there's nothing wrong with asking the question whether it has.
I would say discussion is stifled because of cat-calls of "prude" and "killjoy" and in the worst case scenario: "Man-hating bitch" - none of which necessarily apply of course. There are many who are at pains to show how liberated and edgy and no-holds-barred they are too.

True. We don't know the actual extent of effect it has had, not enough data exists to make a definite judgment as to the that, but enough exists to know that is has had certain real-world cutlural implications for society. To try and smother such a debate to me is just a product of ideology and a possible admission of a sympathy or interest in porn (not that I'm against that) and the preservation of the status quo i.e no regulation for the porn industry. People just must be helped made aware through discussion how porn is affecting us as a society, a culture and what is the health effects we can document specifically in regard to porn/masturbation addiction which we are just seeing the tip of the iceberg.


A good example :

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/cupids-poisoned-arrow/201107/porn-induced-sexual-dysfunction-growing-problem

Richard Dower

Eramen wrote: »

Legitimate question: How many of you guys watch porn regularly? (as if I will receive honest answers)

When the mood strikes, i have an admitted weakness for Jenna Haze

Brain Stroking

Madam_X wrote: »

But Brain Stroking, I'm not suggesting those who watch porn immediately think that's how it's done and they're going to do it that way... however a more insidious, subconscious desensitisation to sexual acts that most people would rather not do though, in the same way that horror movies don't scare us today as they did 40 years ago... is that a possibility? I'm not saying it is, but I'm asking.

I find that any comparison with 40 years ago in terms of consumer consumption of any form of certain forms of media to be irrelevant. We are never going back to that time technologically or from a consumer perspective. 40 years ago my dad would have broken himself with excitement to see a live soccer match. Today there are about 20 on per day.
Porn is a good example to look at because, like it or not, for some reason humans like watching other humans have sex. Sex, because of the grip of religion etc, has been pretty taboo until the almost recent past. Nowadays people are more open and that is a good thing. Porn has exploded since the 1990s with the advent of the internet but, if people didnt like porn, then simple supply and demand says it would not have grown the way it has.

My opinion is that, so long as you arent hurting anybody and have third party consents, then you can do whatever you like. If that means i want to shag a plank of wood then so be it.

I really dont see why any man would want to join a club based around (not) ****. In fact, i reckon more porn and **** would solve a lot of problems elsewhere in the world.

The poster annoying everyone here has been spouting opinion as fact, has insulted Irish men with no knowledge of their sexual habits and immediately presumes before anyone has an opportunity to respond ie "how many guys masturbate here? (i just know i'm going to be lied to)" - who wants to engage with someone like that?

Eramen

Porn Effects on Society and its views on sex, health and relationships:



Regular Porn use leaves Italian men with sexual dysfunction and health issues:

http://www.ansa.it/web/notizie/rubriche/english/2011/02/24/visualizza_new.html_1583160579.html

http://italianalmanac.org/life/libido.htm

German study finds increased porn use linked with memory impairments:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23167900

Porn addiction and human behavior

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/cupids-poisoned-arrow/201106/ominous-news-porn-users-internet-addiction-atrophies-brains

jaffacakesyum

Porn, like most things in the world, in moderation is absolutely fine. I find it to be a load of sh1t personally (maybe it's just the porn I've seen but it's been crap, fake, clearly not pleasurable for the woman etc.) but each to their own - have absolutely no problem with people watching porn.

I think it can be healthy in some ways - developing yourself, accepting sex as a perfectly normal healthy thing, enjoying yourself, getting rid of the "Catholic guilt" we've had for so long.

Equally, I think it may have negative effects. People may be overreliant on it, may become addicted to it, and although I've no proof of this I firmly believe (in most likely a small minority of cases) that some men watch so much porn and believe it to be 'real' in that they believe women will "like it rough" and "copy" things they see in porn. Now I'm sure a lot of women do like whats done in porn and as long as this is discussed and mutually agreed on by consenting adults, fine by me! But I've had some unfortunate expericnes with guys who could have just been assholes, or perhaps they saw too much porn and were copying what they saw, I don't know. Again, no proof just speculation. Several of my female friends have had similar stories

Madam_X

Brain Stroking wrote: »

I find that any comparison with 40 years ago in terms of consumer consumption of any form of certain forms of media to be irrelevant. We are never going back to that time technologically or from a consumer perspective. 40 years ago my dad would have broken himself with excitement to see a live soccer match. Today there are about 20 on per day.

That's exactly my point - horror movies are no big deal today because we're used to them, and thus we are less scared by stuff that would have terrorised us 40 years ago.

Porn is a good example to look at because, like it or not, for some reason humans like watching other humans have sex.

I'm not talking about run-of-the-mill sex and oral and a bit of anal, I'm talking about the extreme acts in hardcore porn; fantasy (if er... that's your thing) and not reality, but would a lot of exposure to it from a young age normalise it? Make girls and guys think choking and aggressive anal sex and cumming on the eyes and verbal abuse is the norm and they're prudes and abnormal for not wanting to partake?

My opinion is that, so long as you arent hurting anybody and have third party consents, then you can do whatever you like. If that means i want to shag a plank of wood then so be it.

Well me too but I don't see how that's relevant to what I'm positing?