Carlin Isles... 12 weeks from starting to play rugby

wadacrack · 21-05-2013 5:12pm

Niallof9 wrote: »

its true, go ask Leinster fitness coaches.

what was he lifting? out of interest

wadacrack · 21-05-2013 5:15pm

Dietsquirt wrote: »

This is utter bollox.

I agree that Healy wouldn't be as strong/powerful as professional/olympic weightlifters in his weight category. He is however as much as an athelete as the NFL guys, he just gets paid one tenth of their wage.

Show me the numbers in terms of speed, slj,vertical, squat etc. All iv seen is scottish rugby players barely able to squat two times their weight and poor depth

Niallof9 · 21-05-2013 5:17pm

wadacrack wrote: »

what was he lifting? out of interest

He's lifting way above anyone on the Irish squads, talking about 300kg upwards in the squat, bench is similar like 200 kg. Hes a rugby player not a lifter, so he can't concentrate all on lifts. BY all accounts Sean O'Brien's hip injury was a result of his upsurge in no weights to being a gym monster, particularly squats. so they have to be more flexible in training.

ok maybe fitness guy exaggerated olympic level, but definitely in irish numbers. we all know the best athletes aren't necessarily in irish olympics system due to money/passion being elsewhere.

Strongest ever Irish rugby player, in terms of strength tests. does it make him the best in the world? not really if he wasn't tough on the field it wouldn't matter. Until Isles proves the same he's not worth discussing imo.

This is numbers three years ago so im sure hes bettered it perhaps.

somebody will give out yards for de-railing thread. but i suppose it is relevant, when discussing Isles. Important to respect both sports; NFL and rugby. BUt i just don't dig the underrating of the egg chasing. Remember rugby is really only fully professional since 2003. anything before even paid was amateur hour.

wadacrack · 21-05-2013 5:26pm

Niallof9 wrote: »

He's lifting way above anyone on the Irish squads, talking about 300kg upwards in the squat, bench is similar like 200 kg. Hes a rugby player not a lifter, so he can't concentrate all on lifts. BY all accounts Sean O'Brien's hip injury was a result of his upsurge in no weights to being a gym monster, particularly squats. so they have to be more flexible in training.

ok maybe fitness guy exaggerated olympic level, but definitely in irish numbers. we all know the best athletes aren't necessarily in irish olympics system due to money/passion being elsewhere.

Strongest ever Irish rugby player, in terms of strength tests. does it make him the best in the world? not really if he wasn't tough on the field it wouldn't matter. Until Isles proves the same he's not worth discussing imo.

This is numbers three years ago so im sure hes bettered it perhaps.

Yeah there great nubers but not olympic level for a strength atlete. Yeah rugby players need more endurance which is one of the reasons are better athletes in terms of speed and power. There are many rugby players who are fast and explosive but not on the level of the top NFL guys

Niallof9 · 21-05-2013 5:38pm

wadacrack wrote: »

Yeah there great nubers but not olympic level for a strength atlete. Yeah rugby players need more endurance which is one of the reasons are better athletes in terms of speed and power. There are many rugby players who are fast and explosive but not on the level of the top NFL guys

i suppose it was projection based on his age and what he could do if training for that level. i believe them the guy is a beast. the whole point of their discussion was responding to somebody about his scrummaging. the only reason he survived at first was because of his strength, any other prop would have broke. now he is an excellent scrummager on top of that.

i suppose nobody will ever know its a great dream. same in football; roy keane could he have been a good flanker due to his mental aggression, same with Mayo's Aiden O'Shea playing rugby type thoughts.

But it depends on the type of nfl player we're talking about which is what i suppose the Isles debate rests on. African Americans are extremely athletic and fast due to twitch fibres etc. Explosive too, i won't deny that.

Hence they have dominated the sprint track as well as NFL for decades. these are the guys in NFL who are the stars for the most part. Can they make the transition to rugby?

THe big lumps, tightends some are ok but if you let a healy or ferris baloon up to 125kg they would have similar traits.

wadacrack · 21-05-2013 5:45pm

Niallof9 wrote: »

i suppose it was projection based on his age and what he could do if training for that level. i believe them the guy is a beast. the whole point of their discussion was responding to somebody about his scrummaging. the only reason he survived at first was because of his strength, any other prop would have broke. now he is an excellent scrummager on top of that.

i suppose nobody will ever know its a great dream. same in football; roy keane could he have been a good flanker due to his mental aggression, same with Mayo's Aiden O'Shea playing rugby type thoughts.

But it depends on the type of nfl player we're talking about which is what i suppose the Isles debate rests on. African Americans are extremely athletic and fast due to twitch fibres etc. Explosive too, i won't deny that.

Hence they have dominated the sprint track as well as NFL for decades. these are the guys in NFL who are the stars for the most part. Can they make the transition to rugby?

THe big lumps, tightends some are ok but if you let a healy or ferris baloon up to 125kg they would have similar traits.

Yeah you have to possess the appropiate genetics for the NFL. Expecially the speed positions. Isles runs through everyone on the 7's circuit where the players are lighter and quicker than 15's yet he if was try make it in the NFl there are players capable or have ran 10.20 or lower. I doubt Isles can make an impact on 15's rugby. I think he could learn the skills but the his size would be a massive problem especially as wingers are gettin bigger and bigger. Size is nearly important for a modern day winger than speed

jamiedav2011 · 21-05-2013 5:50pm

wadacrack wrote: »

Yeah there great nubers but not olympic level for a strength atlete. Yeah rugby players need more endurance which is one of the reasons are better athletes in terms of speed and power. There are many rugby players who are fast and explosive but not on the level of the top NFL guys

The top level NFL guys don't have to run around a pitch for 80 minutes though, neither does an Olympic weightlifter.

It's a completely different sport with completely different types of athlethes.

NFL is far, far more specialised and speed/power is key, whereas in rugby, while speed and power is still a factor, so too is stamina, while the range of handling and kicking skills needed are also way, way wider.

wadacrack · 21-05-2013 5:52pm

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

The top level NFL guys don't have to run around a pitch for 80 minutes though, neither does an Olympic weightlifter.

It's a completely different sport with completely different types of athlethes.

NFL is far, far more specialised and speed/power is key, whereas in rugby, while speed and power is still a factor, so too is stamina, while the range of handling and kicking skills needed are also way, way wider.

Thats why i said rugby players have much more endurance. In terms of speed and power NFL is king. Endurance Rugby players have the edge

I am pie · 21-05-2013 5:58pm

Niallof9 wrote: »

good spot. He is a loose-head prop though, so bar scrummaging and lifting (hes a shot-putter) he doesn't have to do much tackling in space, kicking, positioning, backline moves, handling etc.

he grew up in a rugby country (league or union) and as most Irish fans will testify isn't very good at the top level. Hopefully Dave Kilkoyne and Jack McGrath consign him to being the only unfortunate anomaly.

Refreshing to see that you place your own opinions ahead of those of the Ulster and Ireland management teams. I dont need to defend Tom Court as he is currently worthy of Ireland spot. He might not be the best loose head in the world but he has a number of Ireland caps.

By that fact alone he ruins your supposition. Scrummaging is arguably technically more demanding that kicking, positioning and backline moves.

.ak · 21-05-2013 6:11pm

I am pie wrote: »

Refreshing to see that you place your own opinions ahead of those of the Ulster and Ireland management teams. I dont need to defend Tom Court as he is currently worthy of Ireland spot. He might not be the best loose head in the world but he has a number of Ireland caps.

By that fact alone he ruins your supposition. Scrummaging is arguably technically more demanding that kicking, positioning and backline moves.

Spoken like a true prop!

I am pie · 21-05-2013 6:42pm

.ak wrote: »

Spoken like a true prop!

FFS!... sure isnt it just catching and running.

Madworld · 27-05-2013 3:56am

Dietsquirt wrote: »

This is utter bollox.

I agree that Healy wouldn't be as strong/powerful as professional/olympic weightlifters in his weight category. He is however as much as an athelete as the NFL guys, he just gets paid one tenth of their wage.

As a sport I prefer rugby. However in terms of pure strength and pure speed American Football wins hands down.

However I'd say this gap will close as professionalism becomes more and more ingrained.

Podge_irl · 27-05-2013 10:26am

Madworld wrote: »

As a sport I prefer rugby. However in terms of pure strength and pure speed American Football wins hands down.

However I'd say this gap will close as professionalism becomes more and more ingrained.

The gap will never close. AF players will always be stronger and faster because that's simply what they train for. It's easy to be more explosive when you don't have to run around consistently for 80 mins. A lot of players from both sports could transition with (a lot of) time and effort though.