Carlin Isles... 12 weeks from starting to play rugby

Banbridgeman2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gA5bwqVN5LM

Teferi

Yeah, saw this a few months ago on a US rugby forum I am on.

It's very easy to look good if you have his speed going forward. The rest of his game is lacking according to a few people from the aforementioned forum. Unsurprising really.

He'd have a hard time of it being thrown into the deep end if he was playing 15's. Sevens will obviously suit someone like him.

.ak

You can always learn. I wouldn't say Ngwenya is the best winger in the world, but he's exciting because of his speed and step.

Teferi

.ak wrote: »

You can always learn.

Absolutely. Sure it will be good for the game in the US with Sevens in the Olympics and him scoring rakes of tries.

Clearlier

One of the advantages that Americans have over novice players from other countries is that they're more likely to be fine with contact courtesy of their version of football. They obviously lack the specific skills of rucking/mauling/body position etc. but I've always thought that the familiarity with contact gives them a good point to start from.

pickarooney

Teferi wrote: »

He'd have a hard time of it being thrown into the deep end if he was playing 15's. Sevens will obviously suit someone like him.

His goal is to compete at the Olympics so I doubt he'd have any interest in the full game. He might rock up in the bobsled in Sochi.

CatFromHue

When I first saw the clip I though Carlin Isles was a new country competing in Sevens

He looks a great Sevens player but may struggle in 15's. He looks a bit smaller, could be wrong on this, then Ngwenya so in the tight may struggle.

He looks exciting all the same though.

backgreen

i am sure the black 7s will find a way to counteract his speed ..there are thousands of guys with 10.2 speed in the states..all the big rugby nations are taking the 7s serious all of a sudden excluding ourselves...NZ/FRANCE in the irb final in s/africa...south africa are contracting their 7s players...all building up to rio

Hazys

CatFromHue wrote: »

When I first saw the clip I though Carlin Isles was a new country competing in Sevens

Same here! I thought it was some Caribbean Island!!


Bit of a strange one because he doesn't seem like an exceptional athlete. Reading from his Rivals College Football recruitment page, he had little or no interest from Colleges in being recruited to play football.

There would be dozens of College Football players bigger and faster than him and 100's (if not 1000's) that would be better athletes for contact sport. I think USA rugby would be worthwhile trying to recruit a few CFB players who don't stand a chance of making the NFL although the only issue with that is that they are already 21/22/23 yrs old at this stage and it will take years for them to gain the experience (although Isles is 23 now).

CatFromHue

I think that's one of the reasons why Sevens was/is expected to do very well in the US as it's easier to pick up than 15's and they've large potential pool of players with AFL backgrounds who could do excellently at it.

thebaz

wow - having played a little in US, am amazed they are not a serious force in rugby - so hard to defend against such pace

Hazys

thebaz wrote: »

wow - having played a little in US, am amazed they are not a serious force in rugby - so hard to defend against such pace

Rugby is the 2nd fastest growing sport in the US (after Lacrosse), something like 2 million Americans play.

But the problem is few play at a young age. Most either take it up during or after college so its too late for them to actually develop into world class players.

The problem at youth level is any gifted athlete probably plays football also (or some other sport that has college scholarships) and they give up the rugby for a football college scholarship.

Saying that, there are now more rugby scholarships because of its Olympic status and increase in popularity...so its slowly improving

Banbridgeman2

Hazys wrote: »

Same here! I thought it was some Caribbean Island!!


Bit of a strange one because he doesn't seem like an exceptional athlete. Reading from his Rivals College Football recruitment page, he had little or no interest from Colleges in being recruited to play football.

There would be dozens of College Football players bigger and faster than him and 100's (if not 1000's) that would be better athletes for contact sport. I think USA rugby would be worthwhile trying to recruit a few CFB players who don't stand a chance of making the NFL although the only issue with that is that they are already 21/22/23 yrs old at this stage and it will take years for them to gain the experience (although Isles is 23 now).

He would have qualified for the 100metre Olympic semi final and he doesn't seem like an exceptional athlete?!? High standards....

Hazys

Banbridgeman2 wrote: »

He would have qualified for the 100metre Olympic semi final and he doesn't seem like an exceptional athlete?!? High standards....

I'm just going by US College Football standards.

The US can only send 3 sprinters to the Olympics, they would have dozens who could have qualified for the Semi Final on their best times.

He is exceptionally fast but even with that speed and playing High School football he possibly only got offered one Division 1 Football scholarship (his rivals page only said Akron we're interested), so obviously as an athlete he is lacking.

For an example of the standard, Jeff Demps played 4 years college football with Florida (one of the best college football team), it was said that before he made the decision to go to the Olympics, he probably wouldn't get drafted into the NFL. In London, he won a silver as part of the US 4x100m relay team. He got picked up by the New England Patriots, were basically he wasn't good enough to make the team this season so they have put him on the shelf for the year. Demps will probably be a decent NFL player in the future, but there would be dozens as fast as him in the NFL and 100's of better athletes in the NFL.

Compare Demps to Isles. Demps is faster than Isles. Demps is obviously a better athlete as he got a scholarship to one of the best Div1 football schools while Isles maybe got an offer from Akron, one of the worst Div1 football schools.

Now consider how many college football players there are between Demps' standard and Isles' standard...Their would be dozens of college football players with Isles' speed, would be bigger and 100's more that would be better athletes for contact sport.

Banbridgeman2

Hazys wrote: »

I'm just going by US College Football standards.

The US can only send 3 sprinters to the Olympics, they would have dozens who could have qualified for the Semi Final on their best times.

He is exceptionally fast but even with that speed and playing High School football he possibly only got offered one Division 1 Football scholarship (his rivals page only said Akron we're interested), so obviously as an athlete he is lacking.

For an example of the standard, Jeff Demps played 4 years college football with Florida (one of the best college football team), it was said that before he made the decision to go to the Olympics, he probably wouldn't get drafted into the NFL. In London, he won a silver as part of the US 4x100m relay team. He got picked up by the New England Patriots, were basically he wasn't good enough to make the team this season so they have put him on the shelf for the year. Demps will probably be a decent NFL player in the future, but there would be dozens as fast as him in the NFL and 100's of better athletes in the NFL.

Compare Demps to Isles. Demps is faster than Isles. Demps is obviously a better athlete as he got a scholarship to one of the best Div1 football schools while Isles maybe got an offer from Akron, one of the worst Div1 football schools.

Now consider how many college football players there are between Demps' standard and Isles' standard...Their would be dozens of college football players with Isles' speed, would be bigger and 100's more that would be better athletes for contact sport.

There are only 39 people faster than him in the entire US! He's definitely exceptional

Hazys

Banbridgeman2 wrote: »

There are only 39 people faster than him in the entire US! He's definitely exceptional

Like i said dozens of american's would have qualified for that Olympic semi final. Not to mention the amount of NFL and College football players if they we're training for track and not training for football would be faster too.

I'm talking about how many college players are in the same realm of speed but are bigger and more talented all round sports people, there would be more than a lot.

Anyway, the lads a better athlete lad than i'll ever be, i wish him the best. It'd be great to see the US do well in Rugby, they have the potential to be a very good rugby nation.

irishbucsfan

Clearlier wrote: »

One of the advantages that Americans have over novice players from other countries is that they're more likely to be fine with contact courtesy of their version of football. They obviously lack the specific skills of rucking/mauling/body position etc. but I've always thought that the familiarity with contact gives them a good point to start from.

In some ways yes. In other ways their technique going into contact is often so appalling that they need to go completely back to basics before being able to use their bodies properly. The tackling techniques are very very different.

beaner88

At 160lbs he was always going to be a bit too small for american football. He definitely has a place in 7s though.

durkadurka

Still, one wonders how good the US would be if, as a nation, they got really into rugby. There's so much talent there.

Clearlier

irishbucsfan wrote: »

In some ways yes. In other ways their technique going into contact is often so appalling that they need to go completely back to basics before being able to use their bodies properly. The tackling techniques are very very different.

Of course their body position needs to be changed but the basic skill/experience of taking a hit is there. I've seen people who simply can't take the physical contact of rugby. That's not going to be a problem if you're used to playing American football. It's a narrow point I'm making but as I said it's a good starting point.

tolosenc

durkadurka wrote: »

Still, one wonders how good the US would be if, as a nation, they got really into rugby. There's so much talent there.

A country that wealthy with that large and diverse a population could dominate whatever sport it wanted. If soccer was number one there, they'd win the World Cup no bother.

The thing about rugby is, it's similar enough to the NFL that it would attract the same type of fan. There is potentially a market there for a pro-league from mid-February to mid-August. It could start out like a bit of a retirement league, get some big names from times passed to head out there for a season or two, much like Japan is now.

Blut2

tolosenc wrote: »

The thing about rugby is, it's similar enough to the NFL that it would attract the same type of fan. There is potentially a market there for a pro-league from mid-February to mid-August. It could start out like a bit of a retirement league, get some big names from times passed to head out there for a season or two, much like Japan is now.

A Super Rugby franchise or two would suit them down to the ground. Late February to early August season, no overlap with the NFL at all. Travel time would be an issue though. Team USA for 2037 Rugby Championship entry?

Dave_

Hazys wrote: »

Like i said dozens of american's would have qualified for that Olympic semi final. Not to mention the amount of NFL and College football players if they we're training for track and not training for football would be faster too.

I think "dozens" is a wildly uneducated claim. Not even dozens of Americans would have reached the Olympic A standard of 10.18. And looking at the Olympic prelim rounds, where athletes jog across the line, is no indication of what it takes to qualify for an Olympic Semi-Final. The fact that the first and second rounds are run less than 2 hours apart adds another factor of difficulty to proceedings.

Also, the claim that College and NFL players would be Olympic track athletes, should they decide to train for it, is flawed. NFL players are typically measured by their 40m sprint time. This does not always translate to 100m well, ask Maurice Green.

Obviously there are exceptions, Demps has a PB from 2010 of 9.96, that could have qualified him for an Olympic semi (but not the final). And RG3, who could have been a world class 110m hurdler - his PB would have seen him in the top 6 in this years Olympic Final.

Hazys

Dave_ wrote: »

I think "dozens" is a wildly uneducated claim. Not even dozens of Americans would have reached the Olympic A standard of 10.18. And looking at the Olympic prelim rounds, where athletes jog across the line, is no indication of what it takes to qualify for an Olympic Semi-Final. The fact that the first and second rounds are run less than 2 hours apart adds another factor of difficulty to proceedings.

The argument (not mine by the way, see Banbridgeman2's post) said that because Isles has a PB record of 10:13 that would have made the Olympic Semis. So i countered and said basically if that's the case, then dozens of Americans would have made the semis based on their PB.

Also, the claim that College and NFL players would be Olympic track athletes, should they decide to train for it, is flawed. NFL players are typically measured by their 40m sprint time. This does not always translate to 100m well, ask Maurice Green.

Obviously there are exceptions, Demps has a PB from 2010 of 9.96, that could have qualified him for an Olympic semi (but not the final). And RG3, who could have been a world class 110m hurdler - his PB would have seen him in the top 6 in this years Olympic Final.

As for NFL players, I'm not talking about the combine. I'm talking about the amount of high school kids who have to choose whether to accept a scholarship in Football or Track in college...the vast majority pick football. If they all trained track for 4 years instead of football how many would be as fast as Isles? Isles had very little interested from CFB programs so he had no choice but to train for track.

My argument is the fact that Isles probably didn't even get offered a Div1 scholarship, there are 100's of athletes with similar speed who did, who would be better athletes for contact sport than Isles. Not making him even close to exceptional by CFB standards.

jamiedav2011

Exceptional speed, but this guy will never make it as a 15s player.

Could be interesting to watch in Rio though.

Fishooks13

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

Exceptional speed, but this guy will never make it as a 15s player.

Could be interesting to watch in Rio though.

Why not?

jamiedav2011

Fishooks13 wrote: »

Why not?

An inordinate amount of reasons.

He'd have to learn to defend, kick, tackle, pass.

He'd need to learn the copious amounts of strategies and laws involved.

Just looking at him playing, he looks like he's a Forrest Gump type, even the way he hands the ball to the ref after scoring is an American Football thing.

This video shows him using his pace, which is obviously searing.
However, it shows him running around people in 7s, and nothing else! At 23 he'll never have the time to make up all of these deficiencies in his game to become a pro.

Luckycharm

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

An inordinate amount of reasons.

He'd have to learn to defend, kick, tackle, pass.

He'd need to learn the copious amounts of strategies and laws involved.

Just looking at him playing, he looks like he's a Forrest Gump type, even the way he hands the ball to the ref after scoring is an American Football thing.

This video shows him using his pace, which is obviously searing.
However, it shows him running around people in 7s, and nothing else! At 23 he'll never have the time to make up all of these deficiencies in his game to become a pro.

Agreed I would say he will be alright 7's player teams will stop showing him the outside after this.
The best 7's players like Gollins/Amor didn't really make it at 15s.
I have played quite a few American teams they are generally ok at set pieces but struggle with anything off the cuff. They are great tacklers either they go for big hit but don't use arms etc. Rugby is hard game to pick up very quickly as so many different skills needed, kicking, tackling, running, passing plus having a good rugby brain.

Banbridgeman2

Just looking at him playing, he looks like he's a Forrest Gump type, even the way he hands the ball to the ref after scoring is an American Football thing.

This video shows him using his pace, which is obviously searing.
However, it shows him running around people in 7s, and nothing else! At 23 he'll never have the time to make up all of these deficiencies in his game to become a pro.

Firstly he's been playing 12 weeks! Speed or no speed the fact that he's scoring tries for fun against SA and NZ 7s teams is incredible

jamiedav2011

Banbridgeman2 wrote: »

Firstly he's been playing 12 weeks! Speed or no speed the fact that he's scoring tries for fun against SA and NZ 7s teams is incredible

Is it?!

I certainly don't think so. Speed is speed and in 7s with space it's a fairly huge advantage.

Crash

Luckycharm wrote: »

Agreed I would say he will be alright 7's player teams will stop showing him the outside after this.
The best 7's players like Gollins/Amor didn't really make it at 15s.
I have played quite a few American teams they are generally ok at set pieces but struggle with anything off the cuff. They are great tacklers either they go for big hit but don't use arms etc. Rugby is hard game to pick up very quickly as so many different skills needed, kicking, tackling, running, passing plus having a good rugby brain.

I remember watching a Harvard team vs. DU 2nds, I think, a few years back - their set pieces were excellent alright, but the moment it got past first phase ball you could see none of them had a clue what to do.

justsomebloke

Truthfully if he has played a large amount of american football I wouldn't see it as a major switch.

There would be enough similarities between the 2 sports that would make a switch to 7s easy enough given the space the players have to work with.

Would he be able to switch to 15's god only knows. With less space and a lack of knowledge I would say he would find it hard especially given his age. Also there was very limited video of how good he is defensively so that could be an issue.

That all said he has bags of talent but if that is transferable outside of 7's who knows

Podge_irl

Its admittedly difficult to judge based on a highlights reel, but he looks better and more accustomed to rugby in that video then Ngwenya was the first time I saw him (in a pre-season friendly between Munster and USA).

jack01986

Im pretty sure he wants to make the Olympics taken from the blurb below the youtube video.

Enamored by the Olympic rings, Carlin looked for alternative pathways into a Team USA jersey. Isles had seen rugby on TV before and, through track, knew there was a team training in at the Olympic Training Center in Chula Vista, Calif. He turned to the internet for more information and found the story of another rugby crossover.

"I was watching Youtube videos, and I saw Miles Craigwell, and then I emailed Miles and I asked him about rugby and he told me it's a great sport," Isles told RUGBYMag.

"So that got me motivated to play it. The only thing I knew of was 15s, and then I saw 7s, and I was like I'd be in heaven in this sport."

thebaz

most skilled athletes can switch sports pretty easily and still excell - for example not sure if BOD ever played soccer, but I'd be pretty sure he would be damn handy with a round ball - similarily powerfull ex American footballers should be good at rugby - I found them probably tougher and fitter than Irish club players, but yeah not as schooled in the fundamentals of the game

MrDerp

thebaz wrote: »

most skilled athletes can switch sports pretty easily and still excell - for example not sure if BOD ever played soccer, but I'd be pretty sure he would be damn handy with a round ball - similarily powerfull ex American footballers should be good at rugby - I found them probably tougher and fitter than Irish club players, but yeah not as schooled in the fundamentals of the game

This.

I went to a rugby school and we had lads that played top division soccer or GAA, that resisted playing rugby for years, then made 1st 15s within a month of starting to play. A lad in my class was talked into playing over the summer going into 3rd year and had a Junior Cup medal by the end of it.

That said, there was a lot of experience around him. When I learned to play at 12-13 years old, I had a lot of orders barked at me by lads around me who had better rugby brains and had played since U8s, along with good coaching.

How well Isles takes to rugby will depend on the experience and skill that's around him, as much as any natural ability.

FWIW, I think he looks good, not just because of how he rounds players, but because of how he breaks the tackle like a running back, slowing into traffic and then using his acceleration.

If we was to develop into a 15s player, however, I think he'd need to be developed at decent club in a top8 nation. You need experience around you if you're to develop late. All the coaching in the world won't help if no-one around you on the actual pitch has the experience.

thomond2006

Perpignan are interested in him: http://www.rugby-transferts.com/top-14/perpignan/0018891-lusap-piste-la-bombe-americaine.html

wadacrack

Speed like that cant be coached the other skills can

[Jackass]

thomond2006 wrote: »

Perpignan are interested in him: http://www.rugby-transferts.com/top-14/perpignan/0018891-lusap-piste-la-bombe-americaine.html

I have been informed that Carline Isles has arrived in Dublin and is commencing a 1 month trial with Leinster - as bullsh*t as that sounds, supposedly it is the case.

I can't find any information online about this or on either Leinsterfans or this site, so I call this as my breaking news exclusive.

Leinster will be making an announcement on contracts in the coming weeks, including the resigning of Cronin and possibly Fitz extension, presumably if Isles's trial goes well, his signing may be confirmed also. Not sure if it will be mentioned before that or if at all if we aren't interested after a 1 month trial.

Fingers crossed it goes well - what we could do with that speed on the end of Leinster back play.... :eek: Not since the days of Denis Hickie have we been consistently scoring tries from 50, 60, 70+ yards out...

He's only 23 also. Since he's capped at 7's level, presumably he couldn't be signed as a project player and would take a NIQ spot.

irishbucsfan

Just another Ngwini probably, if its true. Ngwini was impossible to tackle (trust me!) but ultimately he was just no pro union player. Isles would be even worse id guess.

justsomebloke

I'm going to call BS on this for the sheer fact that it makes no sense with the new NIQ rules coming in.

Given that we wouldn't be able to resign him after 2 years means we would basically only be getting him up to speed before he would have to move on.

Also wouldn't want him taking up the project place as that would be better used for someone else (roux hopefully)

armchaircoach

I'll believe it when I see it. Not sure how easily he would fit into a top clubs defensive structure which requires a lot of instinct and rugby brain as well as training.

Did someone mention that he played American football, was he in the kind of position that he would have to tackle?

irishbucsfan

armchaircoach wrote: »

I'll believe it when I see it. Not sure how easily he would fit into a top clubs defensive structure which requires a lot of instinct and rugby brain as well as training.

Did someone mention that he played American football, was he in the kind of position that he would have to tackle?

He played cornerback, so he was a defensive player. The technique is completely different though in almost every way.

Teferi

I cannot communicate effectively enough how much I feel we should, under absolutely no circumstances, sign him to fit a NIQ spot.

If this is true, of course

CatFromHue

If there is one thing Leinster need it's a pacy outside back.

We have average to slightly above average pace out there but could do with someone with what Isles could possibly offer.

If it is just a trial so be it but there is alot of potential here for both the player and the club.

Of course then there is the NIQ thing as well as Nacewa, Howlett, and Payne (??) are there in Irish teams. If this is ok with the overall IRFU strategy I'd have no problem with a Leinster NIQ spot going to him if the club think he could make it.

Kev_2012

Seriously fast going forward and obviously extremely fit. But, at 11.5 stone and 5'8", he is far too small! I play on the wing and I'm 6' and 13 stone 7lbs, could run 100m in 12-12.5 seconds(I've never done athletics properly so I don't know how to launch or anything!) and it can be tough at J2 level! I think he'd be battered in 15s! Imagine habana against him? he's what, 14 stone or so and nearly as quick.

If he's the last man out to defend against, players would simply drop back 6/7 yards to catch him. But in any bit of space he'd score surely nearly everytime. Ridiculous athlete, but should stay in 7s

jamiedav2011

I call BS on this! Think someone might be having you on Jackass!

Tox56

CatFromHue wrote: »

If there is one thing Leinster need it's a pacy outside back.

We have average to slightly above average pace out there but could do with someone with what Isles could possibly offer.

If it is just a trial so be it but there is alot of potential here for both the player and the club.

Of course then there is the NIQ thing as well as Nacewa, Howlett, and Payne (??) are there in Irish teams. If this is ok with the overall IRFU strategy I'd have no problem with a Leinster NIQ spot going to him if the club think he could make it.

I think we have a better version of Isles in Conway. He's 21, has been playing rugby all his life and is obviously very fast. I wonder how his 100M time would compare to Isles, he must be one of the fastest players in the country.

McFadden is pretty quick too, although Isa might be slowing down.

ssaye

Kev_2012 wrote: »

Seriously fast going forward and obviously extremely fit. But, at 11.5 stone and 5'8", he is far too small! I play on the wing and I'm 6' and 13 stone 7lbs, could run 100m in 12-12.5 seconds(I've never done athletics properly so I don't know how to launch or anything!) and that's at J2 level! I think he'd be battered in 15s! Imagine habana against him? he's what, 14 stone or so and nearly as quick.

If he's the last man out to defend against, players would simply drop back 6/7 yards to catch him. But in any bit of space he'd score surely nearly everytime. Ridiculous athlete, but should stay in 7s

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shane_Williams
5'7" one of the best wingers in the last decade probably

I dont think its his size or pace that will be a main problem, it will be a rugby brain and skillset professionals master over a decade he is missing.

Kev_2012

ssaye wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shane_Williams
5'7" one of the best wingers in the last decade probably

I dont think its his size or pace that will be a main problem, it will be a rugby brain and skillset professionals master over a decade he is missing.

Oh ya of course I agree with you there that Williams was(is) exceptional, but Isles is over a stone lighter than him (He wouldnt be running 10.13s 100m sprints if he got that much heavier!) and plus, professional rugby seems to be moving towards larger wingers these days.

Smaller players with pace would require better players around them to put them in space. I cant imagine someone that small making line breaks too often.

Fishooks13

Tox56 wrote: »

I think we have a better version of Isles in Conway. He's 21, has been playing rugby all his life and is obviously very fast. I wonder how his 100M time would compare to Isles, he must be one of the fastest players in the country.

McFadden is pretty quick too, although Isa might be slowing down.

Playing Devils advocate here, but have we seen any of Conways pace since he stepped up to senior level?