Against the head

jm08

Deleted User wrote: »

So we have a prime example of him acting upon his conflict of interest, but you feel like he doesn't have a huge conflict of interest?

Consider the ERC player of the year award, pretty sure you only qualify for that if you've won a MoTM award. Getting Archer onto the shortlist there would be good for him no?

Of course the material affect he can have on his players' fortunes is limited, but that's like saying that a TMO who's bet their house on the -16 spread doesn't have a huge conflict of interest as they will only have small opportunity to act upon it.

Has Frankie ever given Archer a man of the match award?

jm08

jm08 wrote: »

Has Frankie ever given Archer a man of the match award?

Absolutely no idea whatsoever. As if that's in any way important in showing that he has a conflict of interest.

The Wallace example highlights that not only has Frankie a conflict of interest, that he has previous for acting on his conflict of interest.

Cool_CM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Remember Sheahan giving Wallace MoTM in a game where he struggled? Wallace himself was laughing on the sidelines when it was announced.

Was just about to mention that, fairly farcical...

TommyOM

Deleted User wrote: »

Remember Sheahan giving Wallace MoTM in a game where he struggled? Wallace himself was laughing on the sidelines when it was announced.

I'm not entirely sure who it was - I think it was Tomas O'Leary - but I remember a game where the player in question had thrown an intercept that led to a try, made a litany of errors and was subbed off early by Munster management. Guess who Frankie gave the MOTM award to?

davegrohl48

TommyOM wrote: »

I'm not entirely sure who it was - I think it was Tomas O'Leary - but I remember a game where the player in question had thrown an intercept that led to a try, made a litany of errors and was subbed off early by Munster management. Guess who Frankie gave the MOTM award to?

Jese that would be a classic if you could dig it out

jm08

Deleted User wrote: »

Absolutely no idea whatsoever. As if that's in any way important in showing that he has a conflict of interest.

The Wallace example highlights that not only has Frankie a conflict of interest, that he has previous for acting on his conflict of interest.

Ireland is a very small place and pretty much everyone has some sort of a conflict of interest. Tony Ward nearly always gives the outhalf of the winning side man of the match - thats a conflict of interest because maybe a forward deserved it more and don't tell would need a financial incentive to talk up some of his close friends. I recall Reggie Corrigan giving some really dodgy man of the match awards against Munster players (anyone but a Munster player).

Players like Tommy Bowe and Rob & Dave Kearney don't get too many MOTM awards, yet they don't suffer from a lack of endorsements / sponsorship opportunities.

I don't particularly like Frankie Sheahan as a commentator (though I think some of his commentary on the scrum is very good), but to say he would talk up one of his clients is just ridiculous. Are we to expect him to be unprofessional enough now to be highly critical of Peter O'Mahony now that POM has apparently dumped Frankie for Horizon.

Tox56

I don't particularly like Frankie Sheahan as a commentator (though I think some of his commentary on the scrum is very good), but to say he would talk up one of his clients is just ridiculous

Are you serious here? That sentence would make a lot more sense if it was sarcastic. Are you actually struggling to believe an agent would talk up one of their clients?

Buer

jm08 wrote: »

I don't particularly like Frankie Sheahan as a commentator (though I think some of his commentary on the scrum is very good), but to say he would talk up one of his clients is just ridiculous.

To try and ignore it is more ridiculous (and he's not the only one that does it) and hilariously naive.

This is the guy who, when Munster needed tries at Edinburgh in the HEC and won a penalty with 5 minutes remaining, he started shouting "GO GO GO!!"

POM got MOTM from FS on that day and he then Tweeted stats about POM's performance.

thomond2006

Talking up clients is one of the main responsibilities of an agent.

jm08

TommyOM wrote: »

I'm not entirely sure who it was - I think it was Tomas O'Leary - but I remember a game where the player in question had thrown an intercept that led to a try, made a litany of errors and was subbed off early by Munster management. Guess who Frankie gave the MOTM award to?

Tomas O'Leary isn't a client of Frankies' now. If he was then and has since left, it would seem TOL or (whoever) didn't rate his efforts much.

Frankie's client list:
Stephen Archer
Cian Bohane
Danny Qualter
Ian Nagle
Ivan Dineen
Johnny Holland
James Cronin
Jason Harris-Wright
Ryan Murphy
Rory Scannell

All seem to be young lads just coming through. I wouldn't think he is making a lot of money out of them.

jm08

thomond2006 wrote: »

Talking up clients is one of the main responsibilities of an agent.

Talking them up to their employers/future employers is their main responsibility! You think Axel/Garret Fitz would be bothered about a MOTM award?

thomond2006

jm08 wrote: »

Talking them up to their employers/future employers! You think Axel/Garret Fitz would be bothered about a MOTM award?

The point is though, no matter the context/setting, they will never talk them down. Therefore can they be expected to be taken seriously when asked about their client, on TV for example? Nope.

Anyway I'm out. I'm not going to change my mind on this anytime soon.

jm08

Tox56 wrote: »

Are you serious here? That sentence would make a lot more sense if it was sarcastic. Are you actually struggling to believe an agent would talk up one of their clients?

They talk everyone up.

My view is that Frankie is no worse than commentators who are not agents. I see a small question mark over all of them - Frankie Sheahan talking up his clients is no worse to me than Shane Horgan talking up his old team mates (in both Ireland and Leinster).

total former

Reminds me of a headline on the Indo website during the 2011 World Cup; "Aussies say Trimble should play" or something similar, basically the Australians couldn't get their head around why Trimble was being left out for Earls.

Except the "Aussies" were actually only one Aussie, Ryan Constable. Being the Indo, they failed to mention that this Aussie also happened to be Trimble's agent.

It was pathetic journalism and tbh, I don't think having Sheahan on RTE or Sky is much different.

jm08

thomond2006 wrote: »

The point is though, no matter the context/setting, they will never talk them down. Therefore can they be expected to be taken seriously when asked about their client, on TV for example? Nope.

Anyway I'm out. I'm not going to change my mind on this anytime soon.

Hook is the only one who talks anyone down. I cannot think of anyone else criticising any player. They all talk everyone up or say nothing at all.

jm08

total former wrote: »

Reminds me of a headline on the Indo website during the 2011 World Cup; "Aussies say Trimble should play" or something similar, basically the Australians couldn't get their head around why Trimble was being left out for Earls.

Except the "Aussies" were actually only one Aussie, Ryan Constable. Being the Indo, they failed to mention that this Aussie also happened to be Trimble's agent.

It was pathetic journalism and tbh, I don't think having Sheahan on RTE or Sky is much different.

Actually, it wasn't just Ryan Constable - it was the Aussie press.

Paul Cully (Sydney Morning Herald)

Player to watch: Stephen Ferris. If Ireland are to stand any chance the rampaging Ulsterman must have the game of his life in the back row.
The tactic: As identified by legendary Lions coach Ian McGeechan, Ireland like to hold up the ball-carrier to turn the tackle into a maul, once a second attacker arrives. If it then collapses, players off their feet do not have to roll away. Australia need to get their carriers to ground quickly.
The danger: Brian O'Driscoll arriving from deeper and nudging grubber kicks into space for his robust wings, Andrew Trimble and Tommy Bowe, to chase - forcing Quade Cooper to clean up.
The prediction: Australia by 13 plus

total former

jm08 wrote: »

Actually, it wasn't just Ryan Constable - it was the Aussie press.

Paul Cully (Sydney Morning Herald)

I'm sorry; did the Indo article refer to Paul Cully? No? So your point is nonsense? OK.

Podge_irl

jm08 wrote: »

Tony Ward nearly always gives the outhalf of the winning side man of the match - thats a conflict of interest because maybe a forward deserved it more

That's not even remotely close to the definition of "conflict of interest".

Sheahan has two professional jobs whose tasks are fundamentally at odds with each other. Sheahan (or anyone in his position) is worse than Horgan because a) it's less clear - everyone knows Horgan is an ex-Leinster player and it says it on screen when he's talking and b) he's paid to do it!! That makes an enormous difference.

Anyway, you are right that the problem is more one of there being a limited pool of pundits that RTE seem willing to pick from.

jm08

Podge_irl wrote: »

That's not even remotely close to the definition of "conflict of interest".

Sheahan has two professional jobs whose tasks are fundamentally at odds with each other. Sheahan (or anyone in his position) is worse than Horgan because a) it's less clear - everyone knows Horgan is an ex-Leinster player and it says it on screen when he's talking and b) he's paid to do it!! That makes an enormous difference.

Anyway, you are right that the problem is more one of there being a limited pool of pundits that RTE seem willing to pick from.

I'd contend that emotion(al attachment) is a more powerful motivator than financial gain.

Frankie Sheehan has a very low profile list. If being a pundit on tv was so beneficial to player's careers, Peter O'Mahony would still be with him.

TommyOM

jm08 wrote: »

Tomas O'Leary isn't a client of Frankies' now. If he was then and has since left, it would seem TOL or (whoever) didn't rate his efforts much.

Frankie's client list:
Stephen Archer
Cian Bohane
Danny Qualter
Ian Nagle
Ivan Dineen
Johnny Holland
James Cronin
Jason Harris-Wright
Ryan Murphy
Rory Scannell

All seem to be young lads just coming through. I wouldn't think he is making a lot of money out of them.

A lot of players have left Frankie.

For what its worth I would do the exact same in his position. When you consider the financial mess he currently finds himself in then it is perfectly understandable that he would do anything to keep players on his books.

rrpc

jm08 wrote: »

I'd contend that emotion(al attachment) is a more powerful motivator than financial gain.

Frankie Sheehan has a very low profile list. If being a pundit on tv was so beneficial to player's careers, Peter O'Mahony would still be with him.

So you're excuse for him is that he's not very good at it?

niallon

In 2012, Leinster VS Glasgow, when the Glasgow fullback was outpaced for Leinster's first try Frankie's exact words were "oh just too full of haggis".

That's borderline racism and told me everything I needed to know about his media "abilities". Needs to go, for good.

jm08

TommyOM wrote: »

A lot of players have left Frankie.

For what its worth I would do the exact same in his position. When you consider the financial mess he currently finds himself in then it is perfectly understandable that he would do anything to keep players on his books.

I'd say he is far more interested in other stuff now (like the Pendulum Summit which is a big event) and looks to be winding down from that side of the business. He isn't going to make a fortune on agent's fees from Ivan Dineen for example.

He is also on the Board of Failte Ireland.

jm08

rrpc wrote: »

So you're excuse for him is that he's not very good at it?

I'd reckon any pundit talking anyone up or giving them MOTM awards is irrelevant to the careers of any player and I reckon Frankie is smart enough to know that.

Its like this - Joe Schmidt couldn't give two tosses what the pundits say about him or Ireland's style of play - he is going to do it his way.

phog

Buer wrote: »

A player's agent will absolutely try to use MOTM awards as a metric for their performances. They'd be an idiot not to.

A MOTM award would not only boost a player's profile in terms of contract negotiations but also with regards to how marketable and recognisable they are to the public, therefore increasing their value for sponsors, public appearances etc.

God bless your innocence.

thomond2006

phog wrote: »

God bless your innocence.

What exactly is wrong with the point Buer makes? I don't know anything about how agents 'sell' their clients to clubs but I'm sure any kind of individual awards form part of their profile. Why should they be allowed to be in a position where they can influence that? I've said it before but I don't really blame the agents since if they're given a platform... The broadcasters are at fault.

awec

phog wrote: »

God bless your innocence.

Please don't be patronising to other posters.

RuggieBear

jm08 wrote: »

....


Form - Zebo's form was brilliant last year - 11 trys to Gilroy's 6. MOTM in at least one HC game (scoring 3 and with his restart reclaims provided another 2/3).



Logic has nothing to do with it!

jm08 wrote: »

You'll find that both O'Mahony (starter for 5 Heineken cup games with 2 MOTM awards) & Murray had played away in France on a winning team before they were selected for Ireland, also with numerous MOTM awards. Murray was the SH that won the Magners Final in 2010.

jm08 wrote: »

Stringer is having a great run of games in the UK - motm against sarries and described as outstanding by the Guardian in the match report.

Are you keeping an eye on his matches Cleggy?

jm08 wrote: »

I think he had a couple of really outstanding performances in the B&I Cup which lead to a few offers from English clubs. Also, think he got MOTM award against Ulster up against Muller in a Munster win in Ravenhill.
...

MOTM: Useful nobody-can-really-remember-the-performance metric to have though for an agent...or for people to use to argue on internet forums!

hinault

Wang King wrote: »

Depends on who you are comparing him to?

You reckon?

Joanne Cantwell was far better at getting the panel the talk.

O'Brien continually interrupts his guests to air his own vacuous views and platitudes.

jm08

thomond2006 wrote: »

What exactly is wrong with the point Buer makes? I don't know anything about how agents 'sell' their clients to clubs but I'm sure any kind of individual awards form part of their profile. Why should they be allowed to be in a position where they can influence that? I've said it before but I don't really blame the agents since if they're given a platform... The broadcasters are at fault.

Its one person's opinion. I seem to remember Sean O'Brien getting a MOTM award playing No. 8 against Italy when to me the outstanding player on the pitch was Parisse.

But, the MOTM award usually goes to the home team when they win.

The way I look at it is that sometimes I agree, sometimes I disagree.