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Against the head

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    #212
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Interested Observer wrote: »
    The fact Frankie is about the worst pundit on the planet does compound things though.

    He's not in fairness. It's just I can't take him seriously when he talks about Irish rugby/players. He's a public speaker as well as an agent and you can tell, he does speak well IMO. The difference between someone who is an experienced speaker and not is really stark sometimes.


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    #213
    Interested Observer
    Registered Users Posts: 13,051 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    He's not in fairness. It's just I can't take him seriously when he talks about Irish rugby/players. He's a public speaker as well as an agent and you can tell, he does speak well IMO. The difference between someone who is an experienced speaker and not is really stark sometimes.

    I'm not talking about how he speaks, I'm talking about the content. On the bolded - that must make up about 90% of his media work?


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    #214
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 24,158 ✭✭✭✭phog


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    Someone from RTE on Twitter, yes. Ignored me, not that I blame them. I don't need to contact them either to have the opinion, I simply don't watch when I can avoid it.

    This isn't solely aimed at Frankie. Ryan Constable with BBC is just as silly.

    I just thought if it bothered me as much as it seems to bother you, I'd take the direct route and complain to the broadcasters.


    You could start here and look for signatures to a petition to have them removed.


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    #215
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    phog wrote: »
    I just thought if it bothered me as much as it seems to bother you, I'd take the direct route and complain to the broadcasters.


    You could start here and look for signatures to a petition to have them removed.

    No I'll do something more effective: not watch!


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    #216
    Interested Observer
    Registered Users Posts: 13,051 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    phog wrote: »
    I just thought if it bothered me as much as it seems to bother you, I'd take the direct route and complain to the broadcasters.

    Did you willfully ignore the bit where he did actually complain to the broadcasters or just not read it or what?


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    #217
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 24,158 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Interested Observer wrote: »
    Did you willfully ignore the bit where he did actually complain to the broadcasters or just not read it or what?

    He said he sent a tweet to somebody on RTE however he mentioned RTE and BBC as two broadcasters and most on here will know that Frankie also appears in Sky.


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    #218
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    phog wrote: »
    He said he sent a tweet to somebody on RTE however he mentioned RTE and BBC as two broadcasters and most on here will know that Frankie also appears in Sky.

    I'm not on a vendetta. I just won't watch when I can avoid it.

    If people don't think it's a conflict of interest, fine by me.


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    #219
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 24,158 ✭✭✭✭phog


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    I'm not on a vendetta. I just won't watch when I can avoid it.

    If people don't think it's a conflict of interest, fine by me.

    I certainly don't see it as a huge conflict of interest, the IRFU know the agents and the players and are hardly going to change an offer to a player based on a MotM award or some highlights piece featured on ATH, Sky or BBC NI


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    #220
    Shelflife
    Registered Users Posts: 3,074 ✭✭✭Shelflife


    phog wrote: »
    I certainly don't see it as a huge conflict of interest, the IRFU know the agents and the players and are hardly going to change an offer to a player based on a MotM award or some highlights piece featured on ATH, Sky or BBC NI

    The Irfu know the score but a lot of viewers may not know that frankie is an agent to certain players. So they are at times getting a load of hyperbole about players who are having an ok game but in frankies eyes they are made out to be world beaters.

    Player x is managed by frankie, he has a dire game and it's glossed over, how is that serving the best interests of the viewing public.

    And yes I have complained by email to the broadcaster and they never replied.

    It's a conflict of interest.


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    #221
    rudiger2.0
    Registered Users Posts: 151 ✭✭rudiger2.0


    Even though they weren't fairly insightful, you could hardly accuse them of having a Munster bias tonight.

    Granted, I did get bored and stopped watching halfway through. So maybe they were saving the good stuff for the end.


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    #222
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    I'm not on a vendetta. I just won't watch when I can avoid it.

    If people don't think it's a conflict of interest, fine by me.

    I think Frankie is moving away from talent management (Peter O'Mahony is now with Horizon) and seems to be much more involved in the Pendulum Summit

    Stephen Archer is the most high profile player he has on his books now. Others are Ivan Dineen, Johnny Holland, Jason Harris-Wright, Danny Qualter who hardly play pro12.


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    #223
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    Shelflife wrote: »
    The Irfu know the score but a lot of viewers may not know that frankie is an agent to certain players. So they are at times getting a load of hyperbole about players who are having an ok game but in frankies eyes they are made out to be world beaters.

    Player x is managed by frankie, he has a dire game and it's glossed over, how is that serving the best interests of the viewing public.

    And yes I have complained by email to the broadcaster and they never replied.

    It's a conflict of interest.

    Have you complained to Newstalk about Brian O'Driscoll and his involvement with Ikon? (they don't even list on their site who they manage).


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    #224
    hinault
    Registered Users Posts: 5,932 ✭✭✭hinault


    Daire O'Brien is a dreadful compare.


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    #225
    AndonHandon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,382 ✭✭✭AndonHandon


    jm08 wrote: »
    Have you complained to Newstalk about Brian O'Driscoll and his involvement with Ikon? (they don't even list on their site who they manage).

    Who do they manage which creates an issue?


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    #226
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 24,158 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Shelflife wrote: »
    The Irfu know the score but a lot of viewers may not know that frankie is an agent to certain players. So they are at times getting a load of hyperbole about players who are having an ok game but in frankies eyes they are made out to be world beaters.

    Player x is managed by frankie, he has a dire game and it's glossed over, how is that serving the best interests of the viewing public.

    And yes I have complained by email to the broadcaster and they never replied.

    It's a conflict of interest.

    The very same can be said for having a player or former player on the panel, they've played with or play with player x who is not having a great game but they gloss over it or highlight one or two things that have gone ok for them.


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    #227
    Wang King
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭Wang King


    hinault wrote: »
    Daire O'Brien is a dreadful compare.

    Depends on who you are comparing him to?


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    #228
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    phog wrote: »
    The very same can be said for having a player or former player on the panel, they've played with or play with player x who is not having a great game but they gloss over it or highlight one or two things that have gone ok for them.

    However they aren't being paid by those players.


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    #229
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I don't really mind Frankie Sheehan to be honest. He may have a massive munster bias but is that such a bad thing? He irritates me no more than Shane Horgan does when talking about Leinster players in the Irish set-up. He is just giving his opinion on the circumstances in front of him. They're not robots. At least he can actually articulate himself unlike a certain regular on the show.


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    #230
    Abram Muscular Pita
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Abram Muscular Pita


    phog wrote: »
    I certainly don't see it as a huge conflict of interest, the IRFU know the agents and the players and are hardly going to change an offer to a player based on a MotM award or some highlights piece featured on ATH, Sky or BBC NI

    Good for you. You're wrong though.


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    #231
    Abram Muscular Pita
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Abram Muscular Pita


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I don't really mind Frankie Sheehan to be honest. He may have a massive munster bias but is that such a bad thing? He irritates me no more than Shane Horgan does when talking about Leinster players in the Irish set-up. He is just giving his opinion on the circumstances in front of him. They're not robots. At least he can actually articulate himself unlike a certain regular on the show.

    It's much deeper than that. Frankie is employed by the some of guys he's commentating/commenting on in a professional capacity as an agent. Their interests are aligned above and beyond that of Horgan.

    Frankie's/Wood's Munster bias, Horgan/BOD's Leisnter bias etc is all very obvious,expected and very normal. That's fine. However, where it gets very murky, very quickly is that Frankie stands to profit from several players' being seen in specific lights etc. That's a pretty much stonewall conflict of interest.

    Remember Sheahan giving Wallace MoTM in a game where he struggled? Wallace himself was laughing on the sidelines when it was announced.


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    #232
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 24,158 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Deleted User wrote: »
    It's much deeper than that. Frankie is employed by the some of guys he's commentating/commenting on in a professional capacity as an agent. Their interests are aligned above and beyond that of Horgan.


    Remember Sheahan giving Wallace MoTM in a game where he struggled? Wallace himself was laughing on the sidelines when it was announced.

    Yeah, I think we all remember that but do you or anyone else think that MotM award added anything to Wally's value when discussing his next contract. Also, that was when... way back 4 or 5 years ago, god we really have to go back in time to dig up something to be outraged at?
    Frankie's/Wood's Munster bias, Horgan/BOD's Leisnter bias etc is all very obvious,expected and very normal. That's fine. However, where it gets very murky, very quickly is that Frankie stands to profit from several players' being seen in specific lights etc. That's a pretty much stonewall conflict of interest.

    Only if you think the club/union/province that employ the players are complete fools and take account of an agent giving praise or a Motm Award to one of their players during match analysis.


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    #233
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 24,158 ✭✭✭✭phog


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    However they aren't being paid by those players.

    Yes, I think we all understand that but what value do you think is added to the player by Frankie saying "he had a great game there" and everyone else thinking the same player was absolutely dire?


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    #234
    Abram Muscular Pita
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Abram Muscular Pita


    So we have a prime example of him acting upon his conflict of interest, but you feel like he doesn't have a huge conflict of interest?

    Consider the ERC player of the year award, pretty sure you only qualify for that if you've won a MoTM award. Getting Archer onto the shortlist there would be good for him no?

    Of course the material affect he can have on his players' fortunes is limited, but that's like saying that a TMO who's bet their house on the -16 spread doesn't have a huge conflict of interest as they will only have small opportunity to act upon it.


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    #235
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 24,158 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Deleted User wrote: »
    So we have a prime example of him acting upon his conflict of interest, but you feel like he doesn't have a huge conflict of interest?

    Consider the ERC player of the year award, pretty sure you only qualify for that if you've won a MoTM award. Getting Archer onto the shortlist there would be good for him no?

    Of course the material affect he can have on his players' fortunes is limited, but that's like saying that a TMO who's bet their house on the -16 spread doesn't have a huge conflict of interest as they will only have small opportunity to act upon it.

    If you believe that a club/province/union adds any weight to a player getting any award then yes you could take from that there is a contract of interest. However, I believe that a club looking to hire a player will do their own research/scouting on the player and hire him on the basis of what they see him doing rather than listening to a guy on TV talking him up.


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    #236
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,212 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    A player's agent will absolutely try to use MOTM awards as a metric for their performances. They'd be an idiot not to.

    A MOTM award would not only boost a player's profile in terms of contract negotiations but also with regards to how marketable and recognisable they are to the public, therefore increasing their value for sponsors, public appearances etc.


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    #237
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    If I was a player and I knew my agent would be given such positions in the media, I wouldn't exactly be pissed off...

    On the other hand, if I was a player and my agent went on the media and slated me (rightly or wrongly) he would have one less client very quickly.


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    #238
    The Pheasant2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,699 ✭✭✭The Pheasant2


    Wang King wrote: »
    Depends on who you are comparing him to?

    Not really, he'll still be awful


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    #239
    davegrohl48
    Registered Users Posts: 1,530 ✭✭✭davegrohl48


    .ak wrote: »
    Unfortunately we just don't have decent media talent in this country. That's not to say we, as Irish people, aren't good at it, quite the contrary, but all the good ones go over seas. Why work for RTE, which imo is a joke shop production, when you can work for BT or BBC or Sky?

    For all the stick he gets guys like Craig Doyle are far, far better anchors than McGuirk or O'Brien.
    Have you seen the Second Captains show on RTE? I think it's a very good example of doing an entertaining and insightful show on a limited budget. The format seems to relax guests into divulging more than usual.
    I find Quinlan too cliched and has zero research or critical thinking done on a lot of what he states. Him thinking that we need to open up and play looser against Wales, crazy that someone would get solid cash in the pocket and come back with that as being insightful.
    His questions tend to be things like:
    "John you've played in these high pressure games how important is it for the new players to be mentally ready for such an occasion?" The answer to such a question is closed to a Yes, without much room for the answer to go anywhere.
    If I remember Eddie O'Sullivan wouldn't entertain such a closed question a few years ago? Think the question was in relation to Ireland winning their first two games, "How important is momentum in the Six nations?" O'Sullivan thought the question ridiculous and went against it basically stating it's a five game tournament, talk of momentum is daft. Think I have that right anyways if my memory serves. A few years ago.


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    #240
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    AndonHandon wrote: »
    Who do they manage which creates an issue?

    I know of Heaslip and Healy (who they show pictures of on their website). They don't list who their clients are.


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    #241
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    If I was a player and I knew my agent would be given such positions in the media, I wouldn't exactly be pissed off...

    On the other hand, if I was a player and my agent went on the media and slated me (rightly or wrongly) he would have one less client very quickly.

    And good pundits like ROG say there is absolutely no need to slate anyone anyway.


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