DCM 2012 Graduates - the next step

Willie42

Meno Session 10 x 400m 3-5K pace

Haven't raced 5K this year or 10K for some time so sort of guessed pace from last race which was Limerick half.

Lap 1 - 1:50 /7.22 (decided not to keep watching watch after this one and just run to end)
Lap 2 - 1:36 /6.31
Lap 3 - 1:46 /7.01
Lap 4 - 1:44 /6.42
Lap 5 - 1:53 /7.29 (had to step into ditch for this one and let car pass)
Lap 6 - 1:46 /7.06
Lap 7 - 1:47 /7.20
Lap 8 - 1:43 /6.52
Lap 9 - 1:51 /7.29
Lap 10 -1:41 / 6.45
Lap 11 - 1:44 /7.03
Lap 12 - 1:44 /7.03

Yep thats right folks I did 12 reps because when I checked my watch I could only see 8 reps and I checked it twice

menoscemo

good stuff folks, consistent splits.
Just an aside, It's best to measure 400s (or 800s etc) in time (seconds), not pace!!

overpronator

Nice going with the sessions guys. I'm supposed to be doing a MP session tomorrow but I'm gonna knock it on the head and just do an easy aerobic run, calf is in rag order after Fingal. A couple of easy runs and lots of rolling haven't loosened it out since Sunday. I'm not too concerned but I'm not risking anything either, I had a lot of trouble with it in the run up to Limerick so im keeping it all very easy and will just hit the mileage target if I can.

RedRunner

menoscemo wrote: »

good stuff folks, consistent splits.
Just an aside, It's best to measure 400s (or 800s etc) in time (seconds), not pace!!

I was wondering about that alright. From the Garmin upload , and this might be a stupid question, do we use the "moving" time or the "time"? There is a slight difference between the two

RedRunner

overpronator wrote: »

Nice going with the sessions guys. I'm supposed to be doing a MP session tomorrow but I'm gonna knock it on the head and just do an easy aerobic run, calf is in rag order after Fingal. A couple of easy runs and lots of rolling haven't loosened it out since Sunday. I'm not too concerned but I'm not risking anything either, I had a lot of trouble with it in the run up to Limerick so im keeping it all very easy and will just hit the mileage target if I can.

Sounds like the sensible thing to do OP. Hope it sorts itself out soon for you.

menoscemo

RedRunner wrote: »

I was wondering about that alright. From the Garmin upload , and this might be a stupid question, do we use the "moving" time or the "time"? There is a slight difference between the two

Assuming you started the lap at the start of the rep and finished at the end (i.e. there was no pause), them 'time' is the only relevant one.
'Moving time' is always less than 'time' as if you go under a tree or behind a builidng you temporarily lose sattelite cover and the watch thinks you have stopped when you haven't....

RedRunner

menoscemo wrote: »

Assuming you started the lap at the start of the rep and finished at the end (i.e. there was no pause), them 'time' is the only relevant one.
'Moving time' is always less than 'time' as if you go under a tree or behind a builidng you temporarily lose sattelite cover and the watch thinks you have stopped when you haven't....

Thanks for clarifying that. I've added my times to my post. Actually looks more consistent with the times in.

Another question: My avg HR was 74% and max for session was 88%. Does that look about right or should I be putting more effort in? Should it really be higher for the max?

menoscemo

RedRunner wrote: »

Thanks for clarifying that. I've added my times to my post. Actually looks more consistent with the times in.

Another question: My avg HR was 74% and max for session was 88%. Does that look about right or should I be putting more effort in? Should it really be higher for the max?

It looks a little low alright but the thing with 400's is that they are very short; so given that you are starting each one from a rested state (after recovery) it can take a minute or more to build up to the 'real' HR for that effort by which stage you are finishing. Therefore AvHR for 400s is pretty irrelevant.

I wouldn't worry too much about it; once you are going at more than your best 5k pace you are doing fine.

New runner

Really disappointed n frustrated to b carrying an injury yet again! Left hip been giving me bother for last couple weeks but has worsened. Began just been painful lying on that side at night as if it like a cramp in deep! Last Friday on my long run I really felt the last few miles , therefore very little mileage done this week. Done 10k race on Wednesday eve which was 3rd in fit for life series, didnt feel it too bad when running but quite sore since , have been icing it n anti inflammatories etc . Doctor diagnosed hip bursitis n looking up symptoms it describes it to a 'T' . Was planning on doing about 10m tomoro but not sure what to do . The national half is def in jeopardy . Really annoyed at injury before this race too. Grrrr!!

Runchick

Sorry to hear of your injury New runner, you've not had much luck Maybe a few weeks of easy running and not racing will do the trick? I've had injuries threatening to rear their ugly heads so have done just that - had already entered a half so ran it but not hard and that seemed to do the trick. Are you planning another marathon this year?

Murph_D

Meno session 10x400m (weds)

Bit of a mess. Target was about 101 seconds per lap. On holiday in Tuscany at the top of a hill so first 5 were all down, last 5 all up. Hadn't set up Garmin for this so was using road markers (Tuscan roads have markers every 100 metres) and manually pressing the Garmin to record lap. However some road markers were missing so the results were a bit comical. Actual distances were what the watch said afterwards.

Target: 101s

Lap 1- ? Didnt press lap button at start so hard to say. Fast though.
Lap 2- 79s (322m - mismeasured)
Lap 3- 123s (491m- mismeasured again)
Lap 4- 101s (392 m)
Lap 5- 111s (396m)
Lap 6- 125s (372m)
Lap 7 -141s (441m)
Lap 8- 145s (418m)
Lap 9- 134s (402m)
Lap 10- ? (Forgot to press the lap button)

Happy enough with this under the circumstances. Running at 6am to avoid heat so little or no fuel on board. It was tough with the uphill second half.

In Rome now in 39 degree heat. Looking forward to tomorrow's LSR :-p

overpronator

Great stuff Murphy, very impressive to get sessions done on holidays!

14m LSR for me today, I did the first 11 at about 8.40ish and the last three around 7.30. This was pretty uneventful, I felt great going around so had a wee tester for the last three and was moving well at the finish up so pretty happy.

RedRunner

Lazily copied in from my own log:

The 10 miles with 6@mp went really well, felt great after it and no problems...........and then I woke up! Yes I had a dream about my LSR last night, how sad is that? Unfortunately dreams didn't become reality and it was a less than perfect run. The niggle that appeared yesterday reared its ugly head about a mile or so into run and was bothering me till the end and as result cut the run short. Its in the same place I had problem before ,just behind knee, probably hamstring or adductor not too sure.

I was able to run with it but it was with some discomfort especially towards the end. I think a couple days rest required and then ease back into it with easy running.This approach worked before for me with this injury.

The run: Supposed to be 2 miles easy, 6@mp (8:30), 2 miles easy.Ended up as 8.89miles @8:38avg

Splits:8:58,8:20,8:21,8:33,8:32,8:32,8:30,8:28,9:35

Avg HR:139
Max HR:164

This felt harder than I expected it would but I suppose the dodgy leg hampered things a bit and I cut it slightly short to avoid doing more damage to it. Glad to have got the MP miles(7 in the end) in though. Could I do 26 of them though? I'm really not sure at this point in time but I guess it's still early in the plan to know for sure.

New runner

Thanks Runchick, looked up advise weather to run or rest n general consensus seemed to be ok to run easy if not causing limping/ change of gait, managed 12.5 slow easy miles yesterday n iced,stretched n took anti inflammatories after. Didn't feel too bad during running but def felt it after. Thankfully today it not too bad but sore to touch/rub at that particular spot etc.
Hoping to do the national half next Monday ( n even better going to Donegal match on Sunday as going down anyway, whoohoo!). Also hoping to do waterside half 8th September. Haven't ruled out DCM but haven't registered yet either, friends trying to talk me out of it as feel my body need a rest. Couple others trying get me to train for Xcountry this yr instead, I not fond of speed work tho, so tbh not sure what I doing yet. U doing DCM?

Runchick

Hey New runner, you're a determined lady anyway, sounds like you'll be busy with training no matter what you decide Yep I'm for DCM, registered yesterday so no going back now

New runner

Good on ye Runchick! best luck, u will do great!

menoscemo

Runchick: well done on gritting out the race today. We've all been there and 'thrown the toys out of the pram' when the goal time looks to be gone. Still though it brings up an interesting point of making sure to study a course before targetting a time on it. If you have a 'stretch' goal; you are never really going to achieve it on a difficult course so either make sure to pick a fast course or just race the race with no particular time goal (don't look at the watch!!).
Anyway, sounds like you are coming down with something too so play things by ear this week. If you are ready to do the session by thursday then do so, but don't worry if you are not right or if you are not going to hit the mileage this week. Same for you Red Runner: make sure that back is right above all this week and don't feel too committed to the programme and go making it worse.

Monday|Tuesday|Wednesday| Thursday| Friday| Saturday| Sunday| Total Mileage
Easy/rest| Easy/rest| 90 minute progression run|recovery |Easy/rest| Easy/rest|Long run-18 miles easy| 44-50 miles


Mileage is going up this week and we are already getting close to peak mileage I like to get up to peak mileage early in the programme and then hold it consistently.

Wednesday Progression run
20 minutes easy (+/- MP +15%); 20 minutes steady (MP +15 to 30 seconds/mile); 20 minutes @ MP; 10 minutes @ HMP; 20 minutes easy/recovery pace cool down.

Remember to get the strides or hill sprints at least once a week on an easy run. With the mileage creeping up you will still get away with 5 runs a week but you might want to look at getting in a 6th run per week so that you don't have to go too far on easy days.

Best of luck.

Willie42

10 miles with 6@mp was tougher than I expected today. I knew the minute I started warm up legs were still heavy from Wed session. Legs started to loosen up a little after mile 5! Avg pace 8:58 so delighted to get MPM in at least - made hard work of it though.

menoscemo

Willie42 wrote: »

10 miles with 6@mp was tougher than I expected today.

Don't worry; that's perfectly normal at this stage. I often do my MP miles by effort rather that pace; I find that as I go through the programme my MP improves over the course of 6-7 weeks by up to 15-20 seconds/mile for the same effort.
In other words if someone can't hit their goal MP quite yet; don't panic. Run at what feel like a marathon effort (this can be difficult to guage if you haven't done a lot of marathons but it should feel like you are moving fluidly and failr relaxed- it's toughish but it doesn't get any tougher as the run goes on). It's important not to turn an MP run into a tempo run.

tomred1N

menoscemo wrote: »

Runchick: well done on gritting out the race today. We've all been there and 'thrown the toys out of the pram' when the goal time looks to be gone. Still though it brings up an interesting point of making sure to study a course before targetting a time on it. If you have a 'stretch' goal; you are never really going to achieve it on a difficult course so either make sure to pick a fast course or just race the race with no particular time goal (don't look at the watch!!).
Anyway, sounds like you are coming down with something too so play things by ear this week. If you are ready to do the session by thursday then do so, but don't worry if you are not right or if you are not going to hit the mileage this week. Same for you Red Runner: make sure that back is right above all this week and don't feel too committed to the programme and go making it worse.

Monday|Tuesday|Wednesday| Thursday| Friday| Saturday| Sunday| Total Mileage
Easy/rest| Easy/rest| 90 minute progression run|recovery |Easy/rest| Easy/rest|Long run-18 miles easy| 44-50 miles


Mileage is going up this week and we are already getting close to peak mileage I like to get up to peak mileage early in the programme and then hold it consistently.

Wednesday Progression run
20 minutes easy (+/- MP +15%); 20 minutes steady (MP +15 to 30 seconds/mile); 20 minutes @ MP; 10 minutes @ HMP; 20 minutes easy/recovery pace cool down.

Remember to get the strides or hill sprints at least once a week on an easy run. With the mileage creeping up you will still get away with 5 runs a week but you might want to look at getting in a 6th run per week so that you don't have to go too far on easy days.

Best of luck.

Thanks meno. Been enjoying ur midweek sessions so far. Good variety. Was wondering about easy runs. Is 5 miles 3/4 times a week as good as say 2 x 8/9 milers. Just back from my first ever failed lsr. 4 miles done out of planned 16....and had to walk home the last two! Not sure whats up just completly drained. Failed to even get hr over 125. Prob eating sunday lunch not ideal and didnt help but have got over this before. Will see how im fixed at 6.30 am tomorrow!!

DOCO12

18 mile lsr??? Do you not realise its race week down here in Galway ? Only kidding I'm going to have to do my session before I hit Ballybrit that's for sure Looks like a good one, looking forward to tackling that. Cheers Meno!

Just realised I didn't post my sessions all week. So session one the 10 x 400 , aim was between 1.30-1.36 per 400.
Rep 1: 1.36 =6.25/mile
Rep 2: 1.34 = 6.19/mile
Rep 3: 1.34 = 6.19/mile
Rep 4: 1.32 = 6.12/mile
Rep 5: 1.36 = 6.25/mile
Rep 6 : 1.35= 6.21/mile
Rep 7: 1.34= 6.19/mile
Rep 8: 1.34=6.19/mile
Rep 9: 1.33 =6.14/mile
Rep 10: 1.35= 6.24/mile

Then session two , 10 miles with 6 at MP pace. Aim here was sub 7.55min/mile.
Actual MP miles: 7.53, 7. 49, 7.47, 7.52, 7.49 and 7.41. Really enjoyed this session , and have to say the legs felt good this week so hopefully it will continue

Dilbert75

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Runchick

DOCO12 wrote: »

18 mile lsr??? Do you not realise its race week down here in Galway ? Only kidding I'm going to have to do my session before I hit Ballybrit that's for sure Looks like a good one, looking forward to tackling that. Cheers Meno!

Just realised I didn't post my sessions all week. So session one the 10 x 400 , aim was between 1.30-1.36 per 400.
Rep 1: 1.36 =6.25/mile
Rep 2: 1.34 = 6.19/mile
Rep 3: 1.34 = 6.19/mile
Rep 4: 1.32 = 6.12/mile
Rep 5: 1.36 = 6.25/mile
Rep 6 : 1.35= 6.21/mile
Rep 7: 1.34= 6.19/mile
Rep 8: 1.34=6.19/mile
Rep 9: 1.33 =6.14/mile
Rep 10: 1.35= 6.24/mile

Then session two , 10 miles with 6 at MP pace. Aim here was sub 7.55min/mile.
Actual MP miles: 7.53, 7. 49, 7.47, 7.52, 7.49 and 7.41. Really enjoyed this session , and have to say the legs felt good this week so hopefully it will continue

Hey DOCO great sessions there, good to see you back in flying form

tang1

Done 50k in Meath Heritage cycle today with my wife, 5 weeks on from my knee operation and i feel its improving. Not up to any running yet but cycling is keeping me some what sane. Not same as running though, came off the bike with 5k left today and dislocated my left index finger, a finger at 90 degrees is not a pretty sight:eek::eek:

menoscemo

tomred1N wrote: »

Thanks meno. Been enjoying ur midweek sessions so far. Good variety. Was wondering about easy runs. Is 5 miles 3/4 times a week as good as say 2 x 8/9 milers.

Deffo!! Like the two 'big' runs are 10+ mile per week so it's better (in my opinion ) to make up the rest of the weekly mileage over 3/4 easy days than 2 relatively tough ones. Running 8-9 miles is still a hard enough run and you are not getting much recovery by doing them.

Another point is to get you used to running 6 times a week. When the mileage peaks at 50+ miles per week it's going to be much easier to spread that over 6/7 runs than 4-5runs....Remember by 'runs' you do not have to read running days. As has been discussed it is quite acceptable to do one double day a week: 4/5 miles in the morning and the same in the evening....

Big Logger

tang1 wrote: »

Done 50k in Meath Heritage cycle today with my wife, 5 weeks on from my knee operation and i feel its improving. Not up to any running yet but cycling is keeping me some what sane. Not same as running though, came off the bike with 5k left today and dislocated my left index finger, a finger at 90 degrees is not a pretty sight:eek::eek:

You're a demon for punishment, fair play though for getting out on the bike so soon after surgery.

Alanm

Hi Meno, any thoughts on how I should handle this week? I've got the rock-n-roll half next Monday.

I obviously won't do the LSR at the weekend, was thinking of doing the session tomorrow evening and then taking it pretty handy for the rest of the week. Sound ok?

Murph_D

16k yesterday at dawn to escape the heat. Didn't bother with the MP miles as it was a tiring week, with city strolling and hillwalking as well as getting most of the runs in. Total of 45k for the week.

Gavlor

murphd77 wrote: »

16k yesterday at dawn to escape the heat. Didn't bother with the MP miles as it was a tiring week, with city strolling and hillwalking as well as getting most of the runs in. Total of 45k for the week.

That is some going considering you are on hols. I'm in Italy for ten days in early September and am only planning 5 days running max

Murph_D

Gavlor wrote: »

That is some going considering you are on hols. I'm in Italy for ten days in early September and am only planning 5 days running max

Ha. Five days out of ten is what I did too. Was on hols with three other runners which helped. Actually I really enjoy running in new places so it was no hardship at all.