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Prison officer killed in suspect dissident ambush

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    #62
    The_Mask
    Registered Users Posts: 340 ✭✭The_Mask


    RMD wrote: »
    I really don't see this as a sectarian killing. He was a prison officer working in the republican wing of a high security prison where dozen of dissident protests have taken place. To sift through the many different staff who work at Maghaberry to work out their political background would be long and time consuming.



    Then why not just drag a protestant off the street and shoot them? This murder was political, not sectarian. This murder is going to cause enough trouble as it is, don't need to further rile tensions up by placing a sectarian spin on this.

    This murder was sectarian plain & simple, because of his job dissidents will only see it as a bonus for propaganda purposes. As you have stated they could have easily taken anyone off the street but i still do not believe he was murdered just because of his occupation as many people on this thread are saying.


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    #63
    Bohemian1890
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13 ✭Bohemian1890


    The_Mask wrote: »
    This murder was sectarian plain & simple, because of his job dissidents will only see it as a bonus for propaganda purposes. As you have stated they could have easily taken anyone off the street but i still do not believe he was murdered just because of his occupation as many people on this thread are saying.



    If it was sectarian why have catholic police officers been targeted?. These people get targeted because of their job, not their religion.


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    #64
    The_Mask
    Registered Users Posts: 340 ✭✭The_Mask


    Bohemian1890 wrote: »
    If it was sectarian why have catholic police officers been targeted?. These people get targeted because of their job, not their religion.

    THIS murder was sectarian


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    #65
    .jacksparrow.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,428 ✭✭✭.jacksparrow.


    The_Mask wrote: »

    THIS murder was sectarian

    How do you know?


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    #66
    The_Mask
    Registered Users Posts: 340 ✭✭The_Mask


    .jacksparrow. wrote: »
    How do you know?

    In my opinion


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    #67
    .jacksparrow.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,428 ✭✭✭.jacksparrow.


    The_Mask wrote: »

    In my opinion
    Exactly your opinion.


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    #68
    The_Mask
    Registered Users Posts: 340 ✭✭The_Mask


    .jacksparrow. wrote: »
    Exactly your opinion.

    Am i not entitled to one?


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    #69
    Bohemian1890
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13 ✭Bohemian1890


    Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but The_Mask's isn't a very good one...


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    #70
    .jacksparrow.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,428 ✭✭✭.jacksparrow.


    The_Mask wrote: »

    Am i not entitled to one?
    Did I say you weren't?


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    #71
    The_Mask
    Registered Users Posts: 340 ✭✭The_Mask


    We ll leave it at that so Jack!


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    #72
    The_Mask
    Registered Users Posts: 340 ✭✭The_Mask


    Bohemian1890 wrote: »
    Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but The_Mask's isn't a very good one...

    Grow up


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    #73
    RMD
    Registered Users Posts: 2,662 ✭✭✭RMD


    The_Mask wrote: »
    This murder was sectarian plain & simple, because of his job dissidents will only see it as a bonus for propaganda purposes. As you have stated they could have easily taken anyone off the street but i still do not believe he was murdered just because of his occupation as many people on this thread are saying.

    You've just repeated my exact point. Why go to the trouble of determining who this man is, what his religion is and what his political background is. Why add a greater level of hassle to their action when they could drag a person of the street in the middle of the night or rig explosives to someone's car. When you risk detention for life to carry out an action, you don't overcomplicate it.

    You're taking a far too simplistic view of Northern Ireland. The tensions there are just as much political as they are religious, if not more political these days. It's not Catholic V Protestant, it's Republican Vs Unionist.


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    #74
    queen of Umaill
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 33 ✭queen of Umaill


    These people are not representing the IRA or Irish or the political movement for a united Ireland.Shame on them using the name of the IRA and our heros and the real people who suffered.Trying to justify their actions.
    If in fact it is the people who try to call themselves the IRA now.
    As just because a Dublin reg plate does not mean it is them.
    And i am appalled they arrested Robert Mc Carthy,that is simply i believe a ruse to blame him.


    However that poor mans family deepest condolences and may he rest in peace.Awful disgusting murder.


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    #75
    .jacksparrow.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,428 ✭✭✭.jacksparrow.


    queen of Umaill wrote: »
    These people are not representing the IRA or Irish or the political movement for a united Ireland.Shame on them using the name of the IRA and our heros and the real people who suffered.Trying to justify their actions.
    If in fact it is the people who try to call themselves the IRA now.
    As just because a Dublin reg plate does not mean it is them.
    And i am appalled they arrested Robert Mc Carthy,that is simply i believe a ruse to blame him.


    However that poor mans family deepest condolences and may he rest in peace.Awful disgusting murder.

    Robert Macarthy??what?


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    #76
    queen of Umaill
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 33 ✭queen of Umaill


    .jacksparrow. wrote: »
    Robert Macarthy??what?


    OOPs did i just let a cat out of bag :eek:


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    #77
    queen of Umaill
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 33 ✭queen of Umaill


    p.s I was joking as an article had been let out with that name and was wrong name.
    I did go to show you but was retracted and changed :(


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    #78
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    RMD wrote: »

    You've just repeated my exact point. Why go to the trouble of determining who this man is, what his religion is and what his political background is. Why add a greater level of hassle to their action when they could drag a person of the street in the middle of the night or rig explosives to someone's car. When you risk detention for life to carry out an action, you don't overcomplicate it.

    You're taking a far too simplistic view of Northern Ireland. The tensions there are just as much political as they are religious, if not more political these days. It's not Catholic V Protestant, it's Republican Vs Unionist.

    They would have gone to a lot of trouble to single this man out, they did not just randomly shoot a prison officer. They would have watched him for weeks / months, followed him, took note if his habits, which roots he may or may not takern to work, his hobbies, the bars he drinks in, the church he went to even what lodge he was a member of. When they went out to
    Kill that day they knew they were going to kill a Protestant. Read eamon Collins books 'killing rage' former intelligence officer for the Tyrone brigade of the IRA ( now dead at the hands of his former colleagues) gives a good account of how targets where selected and how intelligence was gathered before the kill was made


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    #79
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    RMD wrote: »

    You've just repeated my exact point. Why go to the trouble of determining who this man is, what his religion is and what his political background is. Why add a greater level of hassle to their action when they could drag a person of the street in the middle of the night or rig explosives to someone's car. When you risk detention for life to carry out an action, you don't overcomplicate it.

    You're taking a far too simplistic view of Northern Ireland. The tensions there are just as much political as they are religious, if not more political these days. It's not Catholic V Protestant, it's Republican Vs Unionist.

    They would have gone to a lot of trouble to single this man out, they did not just randomly shoot a prison officer. They would have watched him for weeks / months, followed him, took note if his habits, which roots he may or may not takern to work, his hobbies, the bars he drinks in, the church he went to even what lodge he was a member of. When they went out to
    Kill that day they knew they were going to kill a Protestant. Read eamon Collins books 'killing rage' former intelligence officer for the Tyrone brigade of the IRA ( now dead at the hands of his former colleagues) gives a good account of how targets where selected and how intelligence was gathered before the kill was made


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    #80
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,791 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    RMD wrote: »
    It's not Catholic V Protestant, it's Republican Vs Unionist.
    More accurately, it's people with a desire for conflict versus ordinary decent hard-working people (of every political conviction and religious belief) who want to put the past behind them and get on with their lives.


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    #81
    pablomakaveli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,752 ✭✭✭pablomakaveli


    junder wrote: »
    They would have gone to a lot of trouble to single this man out, they did not just randomly shoot a prison officer. They would have watched him for weeks / months, followed him, took note if his habits, which roots he may or may not takern to work, his hobbies, the bars he drinks in, the church he went to even what lodge he was a member of. When they went out to
    Kill that day they knew they were going to kill a Protestant. Read eamon Collins books 'killing rage' former intelligence officer for the Tyrone brigade of the IRA ( now dead at the hands of his former colleagues) gives a good account of how targets where selected and how intelligence was gathered before the kill was made

    If they had done all that surveillance on him they probably would have done the same on other prison officers working where he works. He was probably deemed the easiest target. They would have known he was a protestant but i doubt it would have been the reason he was chosen.


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    #82
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    pablomakaveli wrote: »

    If they had done all that surveillance on him they probably would have done the same on other prison officers working where he works. He was probably deemed the easiest target. They would have known he was a protestant but i doubt it would have been the reason he was chosen.


    They don't have the resources to commit to doing surveillance on other people plus the more people you have out watching people the more chance you have of being comprised. Just following somebody in a car to find what routes they take can months


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    #83
    pablomakaveli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,752 ✭✭✭pablomakaveli


    junder wrote: »
    They don't have the resources to commit to doing surveillance on other people plus the more people you have out watching people the more chance you have of being comprised. Just following somebody in a car to find what routes they take can months

    Their surveillance methods are more complicated then you think. Trust me. I've heard of some examples that surprised me coming from people who had been under surveillance by dissidents.


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    #84
    .jacksparrow.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,428 ✭✭✭.jacksparrow.


    junder wrote: »


    They don't have the resources to commit to doing surveillance on other people plus the more people you have out watching people the more chance you have of being comprised. Just following somebody in a car to find what routes they take can months

    Seriously what is your point at this stage?you're quoting stuff from ex Provos books which is totally irrelevant to these shootings.

    Can you just stop trying to spark a sectarian war of Words on this thread...


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    #85
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    pablomakaveli wrote: »

    Their surveillance methods are more complicated then you think. Trust me. I've heard of some examples that surprised me coming from people who had been under surveillance by dissidents.

    I get briefed on thier capability as part of my jobs, so I know full well thier capablitys and security measures we have to put in place in our daily lives so we don't end up like mr black


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    #86
    pablomakaveli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,752 ✭✭✭pablomakaveli


    junder wrote: »
    I get briefed on thier capability as part of my jobs, so I know full well thier capablitys and security measures we have to put in place in our daily lives so we don't end up like mr black

    So you'll know that they shouldnt be underestimated then and that the threat from them is taken very seriously by the security forces?

    You dont sound as aware as you say if your claiming they dont have the resources to carry out the surveillance. They've caught the army out once by carrying out surveillance on them with them completely unaware, only finding out completely by a fortunate accident. If they can do that to the army they'll do it even easier to a prison officer.


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    #87
    GRMA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    It really is disappointing how loyalists make everything out to be about religion - talk about paranoia - and this is from people who largely don't even bother practicing their religion.

    They shot a prison officer because he was a prison officer working in the republican wing. I doubt there are many catholics working that job. He wasn't shot because he was a protestant, he just happened to be.

    That of course doesn't make the murder any less reprehensible but there shouldn't be this sectarian spin put on things to preemptively justify any possible action by loyalist paramilitaries. Just the other day a loyalist was caught video recording taxi depots in nationalist areas.

    I'm not saying junder is doing this but he seems to have swallowed that spin. Its not an attack on the protestant community, if killing a PO is sectarian then were the POs killed by the UVF killed for sectarian reasons, or was it something to do with what went on in the jail?


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    #88
    Death and Taxes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,775 ✭✭✭Death and Taxes


    GRMA wrote: »
    It really is disappointing how loyalists make everything out to be about religion - talk about paranoia - and this is from people who largely don't even bother practicing their religion.

    They shot a prison officer because he was a prison officer working in the republican wing. I doubt there are many catholics working that job. He wasn't shot because he was a protestant, he just happened to be.

    That of course doesn't make the murder any less reprehensible but there shouldn't be this sectarian spin put on things to preemptively justify any possible action by loyalist paramilitaries. Just the other day a loyalist was caught video recording taxi depots in nationalist areas.

    I'm not saying junder is doing this but he seems to have swallowed that spin. Its not an attack on the protestant community, if killing a PO is sectarian then were the POs killed by the UVF killed for sectarian reasons, or was it something to do with what went on in the jail?
    "and this is from people who largely don't even bother practicing their religion".
    Firstly, can you give us all a link to this evidence of this "fact", secondly what relavence has it to the overall issue of deviants murdering people?


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    #89
    GRMA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    WileyCoyote wrote: »
    "and this is from people who largely don't even bother practicing their religion".
    Firstly, can you give us all a link to this evidence of this "fact", secondly what relavence has it to the overall issue of deviants murdering people?
    A UUP politican told me that recently. As well as a CoI minister.

    It has to do with the loyalist reaction.


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    #90
    Death and Taxes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,775 ✭✭✭Death and Taxes


    GRMA wrote: »
    A UUP politican told me that recently. As well as a CoI minister.

    It has to do with the loyalist reaction.
    Since you have no link to evidence I presume you will withdraw that cheap,tawdry, and ill advised remark, sad to see you refer to all those of a different tradition as loyalists, you do understand that unionist,loyalist, and protestant all have differing general understood meanings?


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    #91
    GRMA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    WileyCoyote wrote: »
    Since you have no link to evidence I presume you will withdraw that cheap,tawdry, and ill advised remark, sad to see you refer to all those of a different tradition as loyalists, you do understand that unionist,loyalist, and protestant all have differing general understood meanings?
    What are you on about? I was talking specifically about loyalists, like junder who will freely admit that he is one.

    It's common knowledge that less and less loyalists, especially young ones, go to mass. junder will tell you as much too. Same for nationalists.


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