Why would an Irish person wear a poppy ?

mattjack

Madam wrote: »

Nasty and does not equate! Continue with the pissing though:rolleyes:

In 1887 and in another country ?

Aodh Rua

mattjack wrote: »

FFS,Is this ever going to end ?... I'm pissing myself laughing here.Soon we'll be looking for leprechauns under the beds.

If you could, perhaps, start with a space between a period and the first word of the following sentence that might be even more constructive. Like this.

Bloody Sunday in 1887 happened, and it was caused by British misrule in Ireland. That you have problems with its happening is, really, your problem.

billybudd

RossyG wrote: »

Again, you seem to be finding offence where none was intended.

I was talking about the 1970s Bloody Sunday. I don't think murder is ok. I don't think that incident was right. The soldiers who did it were wrong. Why do you keep implying that I think otherwise?

Because you keep saying things that would imply that.

Thinking its ok for chavs and knackers to be murdered is ok?

Thinking the other two BS where just done by some inexperienced frightened soldiers? what else could i think?

Wade in the Sea

Aodh Rua wrote: »

Patently, it was - unless you're contending that military might makes moral right? Are you? By that thinking all other countries and peoples living under British occupation - about 22% of planet earth in 1914 - were not fighting against a "foreign army" when they fought back/for freedom.

No, there is no correlation between military and moral right. And I mentioned neither. I merely pointed out that the Irish largely fought in Irish regiments in what was "the army". I am not sure what point you are making with the statistic of 22% of the planet fighting a foreign army? Who are you talking about? I assume you are not trying to make the point that everyone in the British Empire was seeking independence? Even Ireland was not seeking total independence in 1914, only home rule, which for those supporting Redmond was why they joined up in the first place.

mattjack

Aodh Rua wrote: »

If you could, perhaps, start with a space between a period and the first word of the following sentence that might be even more constructive. Like this.

Bloody Sunday in 1887 happened, and it was caused by British misrule in Ireland. That you have problems with its happening is, really, your problem.

And the connection with the poppy is ?

If we could , perhaps , move forward and stop dwelling on the past .

Fratton Fred

Aodh Rua wrote: »

They shouldn't. At least in the view of moral, decent and educated citizens of the western world they should not.

But, I suppose, they were wearing British uniforms and therefore they can do no wrong in the eyes of people without that morality or decency. Tribe over humanity, and all that.


Saddening, depressingly saddening. The really sad thing is that there are so many lovely, open-minded, intelligent British people who would have no truck with the tribalism of this British poppy fascism - but they are not represented on this forum. Jon Snow has been mentioned, but many, many other British people are embarrassed at how the poppy and a romanticised British nationalist interpretation of war is being forced upon people.

Where did you pick this up from?

There may be some tribalism and poppy fascism has already been discussed and hopefully is on the decline now. The BBC and Skymight put pressure on people to wear it, but I've not encountered any pressure in the real world.

99% of British people that wear the poppy do so for two maim reasons. To show respect for those killed in two world wars (as I've pointed out several times, we had conscription in Britain, so those that died were not volunteers) and to show support for the brave men and women serving with the UN in Afghanistan.

Aodh Rua

Wade in the Sea wrote: »

No, there is no correlation between military and moral right. And I mentioned neither. I merely pointed out that the Irish largely fought in Irish regiments in what was "the army". I am not sure what point you are making with the statistic of 22% of the planet fighting a foreign army? Who are you talking about? I assume you are not trying to make the point that everyone in the British Empire was seeking independence?

Clearly, if you're supporting a British Empire, there's a clear correlation between military might and power. Why are you denying this and trying to portray British rule in foreign places like Ireland or Kenya as being there to help the natives, rather than to enrich the imperial power and its servants?

Aodh Rua

mattjack wrote: »

And the connection with the poppy is ? If we could , perhaps , move forward and stop dwelling on the past .

This has to be a parody. You're here dwelling on the past and trying to laud, with your poppy, people who fought for British imperialism and then you turn around and ask us to, and I quote, "move forward and stop dwelling on the past". Ahem.

Wade in the Sea

billybudd wrote: »

So if you invite someone into your house and they refuse to leave because all of a sudden they think that house should be theirs, then that is ok because obviously they are no longer a foreign entity? and this is lawful how? Then/now?

You are saying British and Irish aren't the same thing "then/now" But in 1914 it was, as it is in Northern Ireland today. You may choose to rebel as some did, or not, as the majority did/does.

RossyG

billybudd wrote: »

Thinking its ok for chavs and knackers to be murdered is ok?

Yes, I really, really think that. That's exactly what I think. I was being completely and utterly serious.

Thinking the other two BS where just done by some inexperienced frightened soldiers?

I never mentioned the first Bloody Sunday. Once again words being put in my mouth.

Aodh Rua

Wade in the Sea wrote: »

No, simply that the British army at that time was the official army.

The British Army has never been the official army of Ireland. It has, of course, been the official army of the British occupying state in Ireland.

This difference would be appreciated by most connoisseurs of the English language, and by all historians of Ireland.

mattjack

Aodh Rua wrote: »

This has to be a parody. You're here dwelling on the past and trying to laud, with your poppy, people who fought for British imperialism and then you turn around and ask us to, and I quote, "move forward and stop dwelling on the past". Ahem.

I,m not dwelling on anything.

My "poppy" ? what are you on about ?

gurramok

Fratton Fred wrote: »

99% of British people that wear the poppy do so for two maim reasons. To show respect for those killed in two world wars (as I've pointed out several times, we had conscription in Britain, so those that died were not volunteers) and to show support for the brave men and women serving with the UN in Afghanistan.

And those who have served\are serving in the BA anywhere else, including NI. Frankly saying prayers at a remembrance ceremony for the present British armed forces has nothing to do with us Irish, we have our own Irish army thank you.

Aodh Rua

mattjack wrote: »

I,m not dwelling on anything.

My "poppy" ? what are you on about ?

Your poppy is commemorating people who fought (past tense) for the British Empire in one of its guises. Coming here and telling the Irish to "stop dwelling on the past" is, er, just a little bit rich when it's clear that your real problem is that they're not "dwelling" on your very British nationalistic interpretation of "the past".

partyguinness

Seriously guys.....you cannot still be coming up with original material for this thread at this stage...:(

billybudd

Wade in the Sea wrote: »

You are saying British and Irish aren't the same thing "then/now" But in 1914 it was, as it is in Northern Ireland today. You may choose to rebel as some did, or not, as the majority did


In whose eyes were they legal?

MugMugs

Fratton Fred wrote: »

it is possible to be Irish and British. Ask the Ulster players.

The team is not the Republic of Ireland team.

Eh, well done..... What's your point? Am I wrong or are you just stirring it for the craic?

mattjack

Aodh Rua wrote: »

Your poppy is commemorating people who fought (past tense) for the British Empire in one of its guises. Coming here and telling the Irish to "stop dwelling on the past" is, er, just a little bit rich when it's clear that your real problem is that they're not "dwelling" on your very British nationalistic interpretation of "the past".

Coming here ? from where ?

billybudd

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Where did you pick this up from?

There may be some tribalism and poppy fascism has already been discussed and hopefully is on the decline now. The BBC and Skymight put pressure on people to wear it, but I've not encountered any pressure in the real world.

99% of British people that wear the poppy do so for two maim reasons. To show respect for those killed in two world wars (as I've pointed out several times, we had conscription in Britain, so those that died were not volunteers) and to show support for the brave men and women serving with the UN in Afghanistan.

Yeah very brave with your complicity in drone attacks.

partyguinness

Aodh Rua wrote: »

Your poppy is commemorating people who fought (past tense) for the British Empire in one of its guises. Coming here and telling the Irish to "stop dwelling on the past" is, er, just a little bit rich when it's clear that your real problem is that they're not "dwelling" on your very British nationalistic interpretation of "the past".

Yeah...it's no longer Remembrance Day but Remembrance Week on the BBC.

From 2014-2018 they will have 4 years worth of nostalgia to get all excited about...it's a pity they don't spend more time devoted to the future rather than the 'The good aul days'.

Wade in the Sea

Aodh Rua wrote: »

Clearly, if you're supporting a British Empire, there's a clear correlation between military might and power. Why are you denying this and trying to portray British rule in foreign places like Ireland or Kenya as being there to help the natives, rather than to enrich the imperial power and its servants?

I didn't make either of those points.

Nodin

Piliger wrote: »

Should have given them medals.

Why?

RossyG wrote:

If it helps, I don't think the soldiers behind Bloody Sunday were heroes. I wouldn't call them scumbags either, mind, just scared young men with guns in a situation they weren't able to cope with. Perhaps there was an element of dehumanising going on, as well.

I suppose Bloody Sunday was our Kent State massacre; innocent protesters gunned down by panicking young people who should never have been there in the first place.

Not at all. Bloody Sunday was a few short minutes of selective, aimed rifle fire, in which any male in the age group deemed capable of carrying arms was targeted. It was "policing" as the Africans had known it. The troops were experienced, and commanded by a seasoned officer.

RossyG

Wade in the Sea wrote: »

I didn't make either of those points.

Stick around here and you get all sorts of things you never said attributed to you.

Chuck Stone

Piliger wrote: »

Or the others are just pathetic.

You're attitude contributes to the poppy fascism culture.

Wearing a poppy should be a no consequence choice. It has been pointed out by a number of people (poppy wearers) how remembrance day has been turned into a 'national consent day' with every old idiot wearing it.

It's significance has been totally devalued by poppy fascists.

If you wear a poppy/lilly then you should probably have a reason - if you don't wear one then you shouldn't have to explain why.

mattjack

RossyG wrote: »

Stick around here and you get all sorts of things you never said attributed to you.

Apparently Fratton Fred owns the BA and the poppys are mine.

RossyG

Madam wrote: »

They were not 'panicky young people' either! They were a crack squad(supposedly) of First Battalion, The Parachute Regiment

Nodin wrote: »

Bloody Sunday was a few short minutes of selective, aimed rifle fire, in which any male in the age group deemed capable of carrying arms was targeted. It was "policing" as the Africans had known it. The troops were experienced, and commanded by a seasoned officer.

Fair enough. I stand corrected.

Snickers Man

Odysseus wrote: »

Mass was from Drogheda today, I would say about 80-90% of people there wre wearing poppies; they must have given them out on the way in.

I don't know the full story, but a minister was also present and with the day that is in I hear part of the sermon was about wars and the people who serve in them.

That surprises me, unless your suggestion is correct that there was a local initiative that encouraged the congregation to wear the poppy, or perhaps that it was an invited audience of people who would be of a mind to do so.

I was in Dublin City centre today and I didn't see a single person wearing one. In fact, over the past week I have been in the city centre most days and I have only seen ONE PERSON wearing a poppy.

Guess despite all the hot air, it just doesn't register here.

PS Fair play to Enda Kenny for attending the memorial service in N Ireland
PPS Fair play to him for NOT wearing a poppy while he did so.

We CO-memorate the dead of Britain's wars differently. As we should do.

Aodh Rua

partyguinness wrote: »

Yeah...it's no longer Remembrance Day but Remembrance Week on the BBC.

More like Remembrance Month. And heaven forfend that you are an intelligent person who has reservations about commemorating the Black and Tans or the forces which guarded the concentration camps of Kenya or South Africa.


It's extraordinary that a country with a strong liberal tradition like Britain could allow such nationalistically fascist beliefs to take over as they do with all this British poppy commemoration.

Nodin

mattjack wrote: »

Apparently Fratton Fred owns the BA and the poppys are mine.

......can you make opium out of them?

mattjack

Nodin wrote: »

......can you make opium out of them?

The BA or the poppy ?