Why would an Irish person wear a poppy ?

Curly Judge

kraggy wrote: »

Why do people expect Irish people to wear one while the Americans, Australians, kiwis etc don't?

Nobody, [that I know of] expects anybody to wear anything.
Some people would like to wear the poppy, some the Easter Lilly.
The people who would like to wear the poppy are entitled to do so without having to run the risk of getting a gob full of snot in their faces from the mucus rich gutter snipes of the type seen out protesting the Queens visit.
By the way, should an Irishman be allowed to wear the Easter lilly in the UK?

Judgement Day

http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldserviceradio/on-air

The Idyl Race

I have no issue ever with anyone wearing an Easter Lily - even in the face of atrocities like Clady, La Mon, Bloody Friday and Enniskillen. Everyone can honour the dead in their own way, or should be able to.

Roisy7

getzls wrote: »

An example of Irelands shame?

You really don't need to ask do you?

Staying neutral in WW11

Irelands shame.

On this.

Sweden, Portugal and Switzerland stayed neutral in WWII. I dare you to say that it is their "shame" to a person from any of those countries

Swedish doctors were notorious for helping the Nazis.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18548952

Portugal was a fascist state at the time which sold Nazi gold. As did Switzerland, which were known to be the Nazis' bankers. All in this link:
http://www.nytimes.com/1997/01/10/world/nazi-gold-and-portugal-s-murky-role.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

Whereas Ireland helped the Allies, which is well-known. Yes the IRA negotiated with the Nazis, but that was not the Irish state, just the action of a few rogues. The Irish government helped the Allies, NOT the Nazis.

As for Devalera and commiseration message on Hitler's death, I can't excuse that, but only by saying other countries' such as Portugal flew flags at half-mast, which we did not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emergency_(Ireland)#The_Allies_and_neutrality

Our neutrality was the most sensible course of action. For goodness' sake, we had been independent all of five minutes. Do you honestly think we would have stood against Hitler's war machine?! It would have led to unprecedented bloodshed in a country already recovering from a bitter civil war. And we helped the British. Look up Foynes airbase. Churchill, Anthony Eden and other leaders flew through during the war. It was a secret Allied base basically.

http://www.csn.ul.ie/~dan/war/foynes.htm

I wish, I wish, I wish, Irish people would buy some history books and stop being so ashamed of our past. The IRA did terrible things. I was brought up by two Sinn Feiners but I would not wear the lily as it has been corrupted. What finished the IRA off in my young mind was the death of Jerry McCabe up the road here at Adare. I do not condone the IRA in any form.

But the War of Independence, 1916, etc. We did these things to get rid of a foreign occupying force. The Americans were surprisingly bloodthirsty during their War of Independence (all in the history books) yet are the Americans ashamed of it? No. As a mature nation, they have pride in themselves. Ireland would want to stop tugging the forelock at this stage.

Anyway, back to the poppy. :P

sitstill

I wore my poppy yesterday as I always do at this time of year as I have a number of ancestors who died in both world wars. I was in the Georges Arcade and this old man, well 60 odd, said to me "oh poppy boy w**ker". When I asked was he speaking to me he said "yeah, u should be ashamed to wear that". I wasn't ashamed, I was proud.

mattjack

round tower huntsman wrote: »

wearing apoppy isnt just about supporting vets from ww1or ww2 its about supporting british imperialsim andthe brit war machine. not only will the brave vets from the fields of france recieve cash from poppy wearers but also the vets that were in derry THAT sunday, as well as vets from every british imperial adventure from ww1 right up to iraq and afghanistan.
if you wear a poppy,your a quislng FACT!

round tower huntsman wrote: »

if your family are serving members of the BA they are traitors to ireland. post 1916 no self respecting irish man would don a british uniform. only a serf would support em and only a serf would join em.

round tower huntsman wrote: »

again poppies arent jus about vets from ww1 or 2 they are about supporting vets from all wars and conflict inc irleland and inc vets from bloody sunday. only a low life quisling would wear one.

Will you be posting much more ? You should've been on stage with John Bishop.

Normally , I couldn,t a shite about grammar and spelling but just look how at how you spelt Ireland ?

Judgement Day

mattjack wrote: »

Will you be posting much more ? You should've been on stage with John Bishop.

Probably get back under his rock until this time next year.

Aodh Rua

getzls wrote: »

Lets avoid the Irish Goverments love in with the German State then.

And remember if the UK had taken the cowards way out and surrendered and the Germans hadn't been so foolish to attack Russia ou would now be speaking German.

1) You still haven't answered the question: why do you and other poppy supporters deny the widespread support of the Royal British Legion for Nazism, and the collaboration of the British state with the Nazi state between 1933 and 1939 and propagate the myth that the British always opposed Nazism and entered WWII to save the Jews? Why, collectively, are British nationalists in denial of historical truth and so keen to portray Britain as something it wasn't?

2) Please do tell us about this "Irish government love-in with the German state". Details, please. You haven't produced any.

3) Yes, how terrible it would be to be invaded by Germany and have their language shoved down our throats. That's the last thing the British would do to the Irish, isn't it.

You really haven't thought this, or anything else in your post, through.

Fratton Fred

Nodin wrote: »

So you're saying that fighting for Ireland is the same as fighting to preserve a racist colonial regime?

You still haven't explained how references to the Kenyan conflict are "deflection".........any reason, or will you give of your wisdom now?

Lol.

Anything to avoid answering the question.

round tower huntsman

mattjack wrote: »

Will you be posting much more ? You should've been on stage with John Bishop.

Normally , I couldn,t a shite about grammar and spelling but just look how at how you spelt Ireland ?

wow you caught me out there with a typo...well done grammar police.
dont see how what i wrote is funny. they are facts. poppies are a fundraising exercise to help brit vets from all britians wars inc the illegal ones in iraq and afghanistan. you support the brit war machine if you wear a poppie.

Aodh Rua

sitstill wrote: »

I wore my poppy yesterday as I always do at this time of year as I have a number of ancestors who died in both world wars. I was in the Georges Arcade and this old man, well 60 odd, said to me "oh poppy boy w**ker". When I asked was he speaking to me he said "yeah, u should be ashamed to wear that". I wasn't ashamed, I was proud.

Considering the British poppy, in fact (which is in short supply among its supporters here), commemorates everybody who fought in the forces of the British Empire/Commonwealth/State, including the Black and Tans, Parachute Regiment and those who ran the "enclosed villages" in Kenya and concentration camps in the Boer War, that elderly man did have a point (to put it mildly).

Would you be respectful if a Polish or Austrian person wanted to commemorate their ancestors who fought in the forces of Nazi Germany, or is there something in particular that makes those who fought in the forces of British imperialism morally worthy of commemorating?

Like most Irish people, I never liked the schoolyard bully. In international terms, that's what the British Empire has been to peoples around the world for centuries. To think a few years of resisting Nazism in the 1940s - despite the myth, Britain never "stood alone" against Nazism by the way - negates this record is wishful thinking.

If you truly want to honour those who resisted Nazism, you should perhaps wear whatever it is the Russians wear (and it definitely isn't the British poppy). If you only want to commemorate family members, you don't have to wear a symbol which commemorates everybody who fought for the British Empire/Commonwealth/State. Assuming you do not really want to commemorate imperialism and all the dehumanisation and human suffering which it symbolises, there seems to be a fundamental disconnect between what you think you're commemorating and what you are really commemorating when you wear that symbol.

RossyG

Tommy Dillon wrote: »

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Errr, maybe you should stop watching British tv and British football then.

Or maybe you should take into consideration that not everyone in the world supports your murdering scumbag army.

Nice bit of goalpost moving.

By the way, I didn't know Fratton Fred owned the British Army. Still, if they go around murdering scumbags then it can't be a bad thing, can it?

punchdrunk

I wouldn't hesitate to wear one if a family member had severed in either war, as it happens none of my family did so I've no cause to commemorate it personally.

I did however have family that fought in the civil war and when the time comes I'll wear whatever symbol is used to remember them.
I think that I should honour these men for doing something I'm not so sure I'd be brave enough to do myself.

mattjack

round tower huntsman wrote: »

wow you caught me out there with a typo...well done grammar police.
dont see how what i wrote is funny. they are facts. poppies are a fundraising exercise to help brit vets from all britians wars inc the illegal ones in iraq and afghanistan. you support the brit war machine if you wear a poppie.

C'mon now, Champ at least do yourself the justice of checking how you spell Ireland.

jjn2

I wouldn't hesitate to wear one if a family member had severed in either war, as it happens none of my family did so I've no cause to commemorate it personally.

I've seen a lot of people say this, and I don't really understand the argument. Of course you're entitled to wear the poppy, but why would having a family member who fought in the British armed forces make you want to wear a poppy? There are plenty of ways of commemorating your family members without wearing a poppy. More importantly, the British are the reason many Irish soldiers died in pointless wars.

Poverty, caused in large part by British misrule, and British propaganda were two of the main reasons Irishmen volunteered. WWI wasn't followed by Home Rule like it was meant to, instead the British effectively betrayed Ireland, and in hindsight, the idea that the British were fighting to protect the independence of small countries like Belgium seems absurd.

The fact that so many Irishmen had to die needlessly for a morally bankrupt empire like the British Empire is one of the best reasons of all not to wear a poppy.

funnights74

On the BBC coverage of yesterdays rugby match Keith Wood was wearing a poppy and Brian o Driscoll wasn't. I'm sort of wondering why Keith was wearing a poppy, No British team involved, it was played in dublin, and apart from the fact that it was being relayed to the UK by the Beeb i'm sure no British national would have a problem if they both had not worn a poppy. On a related matter James McClean got fierce abuse on twitter for refusing to wear a poppy/armband for sunderland. He is an Irish national so he should not be compelled to but in both cases i suppose it all comes down to personal choice.

A Dub in Glasgo

mattjack wrote: »

Normally , I couldn,t a shite about grammar and spelling but just look how at how you spelt Ireland ?

Could you not?

Fratton Fred

funnights74 wrote: »

On the BBC coverage of yesterdays rugby match Keith Wood was wearing a poppy and Brian o Driscoll wasn't. I'm sort of wondering why Keith was wearing a poppy, No British team involved, it was played in dublin, and apart from the fact that it was being relayed to the UK by the Beeb i'm sure no British national would have a problem if they both had not worn a poppy. On a related matter James McClean got fierce abuse on twitter for refusing to wear a poppy/armband for sunderland. He is an Irish national so he should not be compelled to but in both cases i suppose it all comes down to personal choice.

Is the Irish rugby team not representing part of the UK though?

round tower huntsman, please take a day off from the forum and do not post in this thread on your return

MugMugs

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Is the Irish rugby team not representing part of the UK though?

No, they're playing as the Island of Ireland.... A bit of which is in Britain..... The team is "Irish" of not "british"

punchdrunk

jjn2 wrote: »

I've seen a lot of people say this, and I don't really understand the argument. Of course you're entitled to wear the poppy, but why would having a family member who fought in the British armed forces make you want to wear a poppy? There are plenty of ways of commemorating your family members without wearing a poppy. More importantly, the British are the reason many Irish soldiers died in pointless wars.

Poverty, caused in large part by British misrule, and British propaganda were two of the main reasons Irishmen volunteered. WWI wasn't followed by Home Rule like it was meant to, instead the British effectively betrayed Ireland, and in hindsight, the idea that the British were fighting to protect the independence of small countries like Belgium seems absurd.

The fact that so many Irishmen had to die needlessly for a morally bankrupt empire like the British Empire is one of the best reasons of all not to wear a poppy.

if I'd had family members who served, I guess I don't think it would be my place to second guess why they went to war; it was a completely different Ireland within a completely different World then, it's hard for us to place ourselves in the mindset of ordinary men back then.

So I would wear it as a recognised symbol of remembrance, to acknowledge that they took some part in one of the biggest events in world history to ever occur.

My name is URL

funnights74 wrote: »

On the BBC coverage of yesterdays rugby match Keith Wood was wearing a poppy and Brian o Driscoll wasn't. I'm sort of wondering why Keith was wearing a poppy, No British team involved, it was played in dublin, and apart from the fact that it was being relayed to the UK by the Beeb i'm sure no British national would have a problem if they both had not worn a poppy. On a related matter James McClean got fierce abuse on twitter for refusing to wear a poppy/armband for sunderland. He is an Irish national so he should not be compelled to but in both cases i suppose it all comes down to personal choice.

His grandfather died fighting in WW1. He's wearing it for pretty legit reasons unlike other clowns that just do it because they feel compelled to due to the backlash they'd face for not wearing it.

billybudd

Feathers wrote: »

Sure, if that's the motive that's driving people; but as a symbol supporting military personnel, I'd say it's hard to tell without delving further if most people are critical of it because of an anti-British sentiment or are anti-British military action — the trouble with the topic is that everyone dismisses the second as equating with the first.

No, it comes from wanting a better and just society, i notice the British PM wanting certanin sanctions lifted for some countries so that British firms can sell arms to them so they can ''defend themselves'' better.

They have a history of arms falling into child soldiers hands, but lets not mention that.

I can break this whole thread down to two things!

1. If you defend the poppy you are a forward thinking person who has moved on.

2. If you question the poppyy then you are a mad republican who cant let 800 years go and are bitter and a bigot.

R P McMurphy

punchdrunk wrote: »

if I'd had family members who served, I guess I don't think it would be my place to second guess why they went to war; it was a completely different Ireland within a completely different World then, it's hard for us to place ourselves in the mindset of ordinary men back then.

So I would wear it as a recognised symbol of remembrance, to acknowledge that they took some part in one of the biggest events in world history to ever occur.

There lies the problem for a lot of Irish people. The irish volunteers did so as were sold a lie that it would be on condition that home rule would be given after the war and was seen as a stepping stone to independence. The poppy is not an appropriate symbol to commemorate them as it makes no distinction between them and the scum of 1 para

Fratton Fred

MugMugs wrote: »

No, they're playing as the Island of Ireland.... A bit of which is in Britain..... The team is "Irish" of not "british"

it is possible to be Irish and British. Ask the Ulster players.

The team is not the Republic of Ireland team.

Fratton Fred

billybudd wrote: »

I can break this whole thread down to two things!

1. If you defend the poppy you are a forward thinking person who has moved on.

2. If you question the poppyy then you are a mad republican who cant let 800 years go are bitter and a bigot.

That is certainly how it comes across, I'll agree.

Nodin

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Lol.

Anything to avoid answering the question.

Bit rich, considering you haven't answered whats been put to you.

Nodin

RossyG wrote: »

Nice bit of goalpost moving.

By the way, I didn't know Fratton Fred owned the British Army. Still, if they go around murdering scumbags then it can't be a bad thing, can it?

Are you implying the victims of bloody sunday were "scumbags"?

billybudd

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Is the Irish rugby team not representing part of the UK though?

It represents the Island of Ireland.

My name is URL

Fratton Fred wrote: »

it is possible to be Irish and British. Ask the Ulster players.

The team is not the Republic of Ireland team.

It doesn't matter what nationality the players describe themselves as. They choose to represent the Island of Ireland under the banner of the IRFU. Nothing whatsoever to do with the political entity that is the UK.