€4 million to Uganda?

losthorizon

Nobody has pointed out I think that it was the Ugandan authorities who discovered this money had gone missing in the first place and reported it to Eamonn Gilmores Office. In fact I read it was money donated by Ireland to the Auditor Generals office in aid and training that has allowed them to develop and discover things like this.

At least there will be a big march for the in support of the Ugandan PMs office in Cavan Town tonight I understand. Thousands are expected to attend. They hate corruption. Well, when its somewhere else.


This thread reminds me of the book The Help its like 1960s Mississippi.

gallag

To be fair, our environment makes it hard for us to starve, not our work ethic. The starving are not choosing to do so for fear of toiling in a field, they have no rich soil or rain. if the problem is ever going to be solved then they need to address their population increase, how hard is it to wack a condom on? Can anyone point to a negative for condoms use.

EDDIE WATERS

gallag wrote: »

To be fair, our environment makes it hard for us to starve, not our work ethic. The starving are not choosing to do so for fear of toiling in a field, they have no rich soil or rain. if the problem is ever going to be solved then they need to address their population increase, how hard is it to wack a condom on? Can anyone point to a negative for condoms use.

Riding Bareback is better.It is a circle their mother`s and father`s had big famillies.They think by having 15 kids It will ensure that some of them survive and someone has to look after their parents.

gallag

EDDIE WATERS wrote: »

Riding Bareback is better.It is a circle their mother`s and father`s had big famillies.They think by having 15 kids It will ensure that some of them survive and someone has to look after their parents.

Would it be unethical to pay men to have the snip?

EDDIE WATERS

I think after 3 kids they have to something.

gallag

I am not a big fan of religion but the pope is insane. How can he think it is more Christian to spread hiv and bring babies destined to die from hunger than to wear a condom. Proper bat **** Cray.
http://m.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/mar/17/pope-africa-condoms-aids?cat=world&type=article

The Pope today reignited the controversy over the Catholic church's stance on condom use as he made his first trip to Africa.The pontiff said condoms were not the answer to the continent's fight against HIV and Aids and could make the problem worse.Benedict XVI made his comments as he flew to Cameroon for the first leg of a six-day trip that will also see him travelling to Angola.The timing of his remarks outraged health agencies trying to halt the spread of HIV and Aids in sub-Saharan Africa, where an estimated 22 million people are infected.The Roman Catholic church encourages sexual abstinence and fidelity to prevent the disease from spreading, but it is a policy that has divided some clergy working with Aids patients.The pontiff, speaking to journalists on his flight, said the condition was "a tragedy that cannot be overcome by money alone, that cannot be overcome through the distribution of condoms, which even aggravates the problems".Rebecca Hodes, of the Treatment Action Campaign in South Africa, said that if the Pope was serious about preventing new HIV infections he would focus on promoting wider access to condoms and spreading information about how best to use them.Hodes, the director of policy, communication and research for the campaign group, added: "Instead, his opposition to condoms conveys that religious dogma is more important to him than the lives of Africans."It is not the first time the Pope has made public remarks on the HIV/Aids outbreak ravaging the continent.Shortly after becoming pontiff in 2005, he told senior Catholic clergy from Africa that, while the disease was a "cruel epidemic", it could not be cured through using condoms.Addressing bishops from South Africa, Botswana, Swaziland, Namibia and Lesotho who had travelled to the Vatican for papal audience, he said: "The traditional teaching of the church has proven to be the only failsafe way to prevent the spread of HIV/Aids."He also warned them that African life was under threat from a number of factors, including condoms."It is of great concern that the fabric of African life, its very source of hope and stability, is threatened by divorce, abortion, prostitution, human trafficking and a contraception mentality," he added.More than two-thirds – 67% – of the global total of 32.9 million people with HIV live in sub-Saharan Africa.Three-quarters of all Aids deaths in 2007 happened there.Africa is the fastest-growing region for the Roman Catholic church, which competes with Islam and evangelical churches.The Pope also said today that he intended to make an appeal for "international solidarity" for Africa in the face of the global economic downturn.He said that, while the church did not propose specific economic solutions, it could give "spiritual and moral" suggestions.Describing the current crisis as the consequence of "a deficit of ethics in economic structures", he added: "It is here that the church can make a contribution."Benedict dismissed claims that he was facing increasing opposition and isolation within the church, particularly after an outreach to ultra-conservatives led to him lifting the excommunication of a Holocaust-denying bishop."The myth of my solitude makes me laugh," he said, adding that he could count on the network of friends and aides he saw every day.In a letter to Catholic bishops, released last week, he made an unusual public acknowledgment of Vatican mistakes over the rehabilitation of Bishop Richard Williamson.While acknowledging that errors had been made in handling the affair, Benedict said he was saddened that he was criticised "with open hostility" even by those who "should have known better".

lightspeed

Why is that i hear many people in Ireland discussing child welfare and saying that people should no longer have children they cant afford and yet the same attitude does not seem to apply to foreign African countries who we give hundreds of millions to?

zom

lightspeed wrote: »

Why is that i hear many people in Ireland discussing child welfare and saying that people should no longer have children they cant afford and yet the same attitude does not seem to apply to foreign African countries who we give hundreds of millions to?

How do you know? Are you reading Uganda's papers or forums?

lightspeed

zom wrote: »

How do you know? Are you reading Uganda's papers or forums?

I meant why are people here in Ireland not calling for people in Africa to put measures in place to try and reduce their population? If we are putting in over €700 million of irish tax payers money to fund welfare and aid in Africa, why is it not a topic of discussion in Ireland the same way the funding of welfare for children in Ireland is?

So some irish taxpayers believe that people in Ireland should not have children that they cant afford, as it costs the state too much money. However, they do not feel the same about Africa, despite the amount of money we have to give them each year.

The above is completely illogical to me.

Annasopra

zom wrote: »

How do you know? Are you reading Uganda's papers or forums?

Why? are you?

golden lane

as long a countries give other countries aid.........they will never change for their own good.......

as long as people pay people for having children......people will have children......

Nodin

golden lane wrote: »

as long a countries give other countries aid.........they will never change for their own good.......

as long as people pay people for having children......people will have children......

...why were there larger families in the era before child benefit then?

golden lane

Nodin wrote: »

...why were there larger families in the era before child benefit then?

is that a question, or a contradiction.....or both.

was ireland giving money to uganda then...?????

Nodin

golden lane wrote: »

is that a question, or a contradiction.....or both.

was ireland giving money to uganda then...?????

I was unaware Uganda contained a unique species of humanity.
I was also unaware that Irish aid paid child benefit to Ugandans.

You stated "as long as people pay people for having children......people will have children......" yet the era pre-child benefit saw families generally larger here and elsewhere.

phoenix999

Certain parts of Africa are certainly in need of aid, but countries like Uganda can still spend $744million buying Russian made fighter jets.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704013604576248094099823846.html

They need to get their priorities right. Just as we should. A bailed out country cannot afford to be giving over 650million in annual foreign aid (essentially more borrowed money).

petersburg2002

The biggest scourge to the African continent besides malaria and AIDS is government corruption. If we think we have it bad just Google the pay and allowances of politicians in Nigeria. And Mugabe and his ilk have the brass neck to harp on about Western Imperialism while they revel in their palace compounds while chaos reigns. Education is the key to Africa's future. Then they can vote out these tyrants.

SEPT 23 1989

send The Viper over to get it back

petersburg2002

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

send The Viper over to get it back

He could probably link up with the Chinese. They seem to be taking over the shop in Africa.

Wibbs

phoenix999 wrote: »

Certain parts of Africa are certainly in need of aid, but countries like Uganda can still spend $744million buying Russian made fighter jets.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704013604576248094099823846.html

They need to get their priorities right. Just as we should. A bailed out country cannot afford to be giving over 650million in annual foreign aid (essentially more borrowed money).

This plus a thousand. It's beyond ridiculous, when you consider that 400,000 people in Ireland are on the brink or in food poverty and we're sending over half a billion on foreign aid? If the ugandan government can afford to spend nearly a billion dollars on fighter planes and have been getting some nice payouts from China and have some decent oil revenue and their inflation rate is dropping like a stone, then WT jumping F are we doing giving them money? Money we don't have and all of us are being squeezed to some degree or other with new taxes et al. How much will the household charge bring in compared to this money going out? How much tax needs to flow into the country's coffers to cover this expense? For me GTFO sums it up. Oh and we also pay out more per head in foriegn aid than Germany. How's that sensible? We need to be much more discerning on who we're sending money to, or it'll be more waste to add to our already dodgy books.

Chinasea

We all know that some of the money in ALL charities could be better spent. If you don't want to donate than don't, but lay off trying to tell us we have people starving in this country.

To compare the so called 'poverty' in Ireland with the sheer and utter deprivation in Africa is just quite frankly shameful.

steddyeddy

Chinasea wrote: »

We all know that some of the money in ALL charities could be better spent. If you don't want to donate than don't, but lay off trying to tell us we have people starving in this country.

To compare the so called 'poverty' in Ireland with the sheer and utter deprivation in Africa is just quite frankly shameful.

I never understand this. Yes people are far worse off in Africa but that fact doesnt alter the fact that there are children in poverty in Ireland too. We cant ignore poor children in our own country because another country has it worse.

dan dan

Chinasea wrote: »

We all know that some of the money in ALL charities could be better spent. If you don't want to donate than don't, but lay off trying to tell us we have people starving in this country.

To compare the so called 'poverty' in Ireland with the sheer and utter deprivation in Africa is just quite frankly shameful.

The poverty in Africa is a multi,Billion industry.The sheer poverty you and the world are offended by,is managed and kept real for this purpose. Something like a farmer keeps animals for slaughter.The African powers keep poverty and death a going concern. It is an amazing cash crop. We /you included. Keep poverty in Africa by sending money for its relief. While we do this,africans will die of starvation.

Chinasea

steddyeddy wrote: »

I never understand this. Yes people are far worse off in Africa but that fact doesnt alter the fact that there are children in poverty in Ireland too. We cant ignore poor children in our own country because another country has it worse.

We do not have 'poor' children in Ireland per se. We have raging social problems that lead to deprivation, but we do not have famine, drought, etc.

Uganda to my knowledge does not have the following 'Allowances':

Jobseeker Supports
Pensions
Illness, Disability and Caring
Back To Education
Death and Bereavement benefit
Dental, Optical and Hearing Benefits
Free Travel
Household Benefits Gas, Electricity, phone, TV
Fuel Allowance
Supplementary Welfare Allowance
Rural and Community Supports
Redundancy and Insolvency
Personal Public Service Number
Employment Services and Employment Programme
Holy Blo*dy Communion for f' sake
ETC

mikom

Chinasea wrote: »

We do not have 'poor' children in Ireland per se. We have raging social problems that lead to deprivation, but we do not have famine, drought, etc.

Uganda to my knowledge does not have the following 'Allowances':

Jobseeker Supports
Pensions
Illness, Disability and Caring
Back To Education
Death and Bereavement benefit
Dental, Optical and Hearing Benefits
Free Travel
Household Benefits Gas, Electricity, phone, TV
Fuel Allowance
Supplementary Welfare Allowance
Rural and Community Supports
Redundancy and Insolvency
Personal Public Service Number
Employment Services and Employment Programme
Holy Blo*dy Communion for f' sake
ETC

Who needs Allowances when you have fighter jets that would put the Irish air corps to shame...........

Laisurg

This is a fúcking joke and to be honest they should of known better. Uganda will always be a complete and utter mess as long as it's run by the same corrupt government, giving them money will achieve **** all and from what I've seen and read I sincerely doubt a cent of that money is going to the people there that actually need it.

Wibbs

Chinasea wrote: »

We all know that some of the money in ALL charities could be better spent. If you don't want to donate than don't, but lay off trying to tell us we have people starving in this country.

To compare the so called 'poverty' in Ireland with the sheer and utter deprivation in Africa is just quite frankly shameful.

With respect, bollocks and V8 powered bollocks with it on a few points. For a start we have no choice in whether we "donate" these foreign aid moneys. Just so we're clear it's over Six Hundred Million coming out of the exchequer. That would go a long way in this country. Why aren't the Germans paying the same per capita amount? Good sense it seems.

Secondly this sheer and utter deprivation you speak of, how is this money helping when in Uganda's case they can afford to splash out nearly twice what we give(overall in foreign aid) on air defence? Against who FFS? It's patently insane. Would you donate money to a family where the parents are actually quite well off and have more than enough to run the family home, but are drinking that money away every night in the pub? You'd be insane to say yes and yet this is what we've been doing with various African(among others) states* for generations. Sure, rattle a few pennies in the Trocaire box, or for the full effect build breezeblock houses on guilt holidays to assuage the old white guilt when faced with the famine/poverty porn blistered into our eyeballs for generations and guess what? Fcuk all has changed to any effective degree across those generations. Many of these basket case states are worse than they were. Doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result is the definition of what?

Ireland is like a family that have lost their job or are on a three day week, mortgaged to the gills and outgoings are not being covered by incomings. Now if said family went to their bank/accountant/financial adviser looking for advice and said advisor discovered they had a standing order to a profligate overseas relative of a 100 quid a month what would the advisor suggest? And no, the answer isn't they should keep doing it.

As for your list of what we have(or some of us may have) I'd set against the facts that Uganda has numerous natural resources(including oil reserves), regular rainfall across most of the country, hell, they're even in economic growth and their inflation is dropping. Getting a debt right off helped. Pity we didn't, but anyway... There is no good reason why they shouldn't be doing much better. Other African states have managed it.

As the film quote goes, "show me the money", if you can afford hundreds of millions on just one arm of your military, are getting lucrative contracts from outside(from China mostly) and have pretty decent natural resources and still want money from us, then my original take stands, GTFO. It would have been daft enough when we thought we had a few quid, but now since we're looking down the barrel of more recession to come and another lost generation heading overseas, I really think GTFO. That's just Uganda. If we're ploughing money into places like Zimbabwe then we really need our collective heads read.



*not all African states. It's a huge continent and there are states doing pretty well thank you, it's the basket cases I'm referring to.

smurgen

Why should we give money at all?i mean if Its aid they need then in order to cut out corruption they should supply us with an inventory of things they need.we should then go to The supplier with this and pay for The goods directly.if they need money for projects then we should Have a total break-down of all costs unvolved. Countries who apply for aid should Have to sign contracts too saying they'll only spend x amount per annum on non necessities like military spending.

Basically i think aid should be run like a business. As investors we need to ensure we're getting maximum return for our money.aid shouldnt be free,it needs to be earned.

Chinasea

Wibbs wrote: »

With respect, bollocks and V8 powered bollocks with it on a few points.

Yea, respite alright!

Wibbs

Yes it was with respect C, I do take your points on board and have no doubt your intent is very much in the right place, I just feel that how this is being done and has been done for many decades is daft and ineffectual. Throw in our own current economic woes and it's beyond daft. Make no mistake, we are broke, at best on a very tight budget, people are going hungry in this country, hell one in six people in this country are considered to havesignificant literacy problems while nearly a quarter of males are considered functionally illiterate. We need to get our own house in order first and six hundred million quid would go a long way towards that goal. If people with more means wish to donate to overseas aid funds, then great(I do myself), but not from the government coffers.

donegal_road

Chinasea wrote: »

We do not have 'poor' children in Ireland per se. We have raging social problems that lead to deprivation, but we do not have famine, drought, etc.

Uganda to my knowledge does not have the following 'Allowances':

Jobseeker Supports
Pensions
Illness, Disability and Caring
Back To Education
Death and Bereavement benefit
Dental, Optical and Hearing Benefits
Free Travel
Household Benefits Gas, Electricity, phone, TV
Fuel Allowance
Supplementary Welfare Allowance
Rural and Community Supports
Redundancy and Insolvency
Personal Public Service Number
Employment Services and Employment Programme
Holy Blo*dy Communion for f' sake
ETC

where does Ireland get the money to pay for all this?