€4 million to Uganda?

Nodin

Show Time wrote: »

The entire Continent of Africa is a money black hole to the rest of the world.

Best to let them all either learn how to farm or mine the land and if the natives are to lazy or stupid to even manage that than let them all die off and repopulate the lands with folks who are willing to do some work.

No, no racism there......

uch

Ladies and Boy's, my brother lived in Uganda for 10 years and he said the only thing wrong with Uganda is that Ugandans are running the country

Capt'n Midnight

lightspeed wrote: »

After 20 years and things are just as corrupt as ever. I dont understand it, we take in refugees to this country from places like Uganda, foot the bill for housing and welfare, and then we also give millions of euro to the Ugandan government as well?

20 years ?

20 years ago the Rwandan civil war was creating tensions which lead to the genocide and then spilled over in to the even worse Congo wars involving Uganda.

So perhaps 6 million dead by the time it quietened down nearly 10 years ago.

A lot has changed since then.


www.irishaid.gov.ie/uganda.html

Since 1986, Uganda has transformed from a nearly failed state to a country that has achieved consistently high economic growth rates. Uganda’s GDP is currently approximately 5%, significantly higher than the 3.3% recorded for the Sub-Saharan region. Poverty levels declined significantly from 56% in 1992 to 31% in 2005.

There have also been steady improvements in health (immunisation has increased from 63% in 2002 to 89% in 200%) and education (84% of children are now enrolled in schools)

Yeah it's corrupt over there, but it's not as if we are just handing the government a bag of money to spend how they like. Look at the amounts siphoned off by politicians and their cohorts here over during the boom. How many stories have we heard about brown envelopes , and how many stories did we not hear about ?

Yes the corruption is a matter of degree and the work ethic , but the big difference is that millions haven't died in recent years.

Capt'n Midnight

Originally Posted by lightspeed View Post
By all means please educate me as to how irish companies investing in Africa, is benefiting the irish tax payer when we are spending millions housing refugees and then donating millions at the same time.

From a few years ago about one boat from Killybegs. In one single expedition the Atlantic Dawn catches the same as what 7000 traditional fishermen would catch in a whole year. A lot of ex fishermen from Mauritania have become economic migrants and headed to Europe.

Just in case anyone was wondering if we were some how instrumental in creating the refugee/migrant problems.

mikemac1

Spanish trawlers do the same to us

bootybouncer

its in the sun it must be true

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4610342/Familys-4million-benefits-plot-spanned-18-years.html

gobnaitolunacy

Borrowing money to give it away again, makes loads of sense.

jaja321

Show Time wrote: »

The entire Continent of Africa is a money black hole to the rest of the world.

Best to let them all either learn how to farm or mine the land and if the natives are to lazy or stupid to even manage that than let them all die off and repopulate the lands with folks who are willing to do some work.

Wow.

SWL

telecaster wrote: »

I wonder if boards.de has similar threads where irate Germans complain that a basket case island on the arse end of Europe keeps getting funded by them.

Your knowledge of your Country’s present economic difficulties are embarrassingto read, you really should educate yourself on how Ireland is paying; it seems happily,the unsecured debts and Germanys/EU role in that transfer of wealth.

But that won't make you seem enlightened about the ways of the world, iffact if you want to get outraged start with the fact Irish citizens are noweconomic salves to a system not of their making.

Irelands is in this state because it has too many people like you livinghere.

Annasopra

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

20 years ?

20 years ago the Rwandan civil war was creating tensions which lead to the genocide and then spilled over in to the even worse Congo wars involving Uganda.

So perhaps 6 million dead by the time it quietened down nearly 10 years ago.

A lot has changed since then.


www.irishaid.gov.ie/uganda.html





Yeah it's corrupt over there, but it's not as if we are just handing the government a bag of money to spend how they like. Look at the amounts siphoned off by politicians and their cohorts here over during the boom. How many stories have we heard about brown envelopes , and how many stories did we not hear about ?

Yes the corruption is a matter of degree and the work ethic , but the big difference is that millions haven't died in recent years.

At last. Someone with understanding, knowledge and awareness.

fryup

uch wrote: »

Ladies and Boy's, my brother lived in Uganda for 10 years and he said the only thing wrong with Uganda is that Ugandans are running the country

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAmcnHYsmNc

Show Time

Nodin wrote: »

No, no racism there......

Wow i never knew calling people lazy made me a racist.:rolleyes:

gobnaitolunacy

uch wrote: »

Ladies and Boy's, my brother lived in Uganda for 10 years and he said the only thing wrong with Uganda is that Ugandans are running the country

It would be valid by substituting 'Uganda' for 'Ireland' and 'Ugandans' for 'Irish'.:D

archer22

AHH dont be so hard on the Irish government they were trying to help the Irish economy..it looked good,dept of foreign affairs got an E-mail saying if they sent this guy in Africa 4 million he would forward 100 billion to them.They thought they had Ireland's problems solved...it looked even better than borrowing money for your grandkids to pay back.

bluecode

telecaster wrote: »

I wonder if boards.de has similar threads where irate Germans complain that a basket case island on the arse end of Europe keeps getting funded by them.

Get your facts right. The Germans are not funding us. Any money sent to Ireland was used to bailout the banks which in turn was sent to bail out the bondholders and most of all to bail out German banks. The Germans are giving us aid.

As for the Uganda issue. I'm surprised anyone is surprised. Africa in general is an absolute basket case when it comes to running their own affairs. More than 35 years ago as a teenager in school I took part in a Concern 24 hour fast to raise money for Africa. It's clear it was a complete waste of time. Almost nothing has changed. Concern is still going strong feeding people in Africa. Same with all the other charities.

You really have to ask why nothing has apparently changed in all that time? What is the problem with Africans in general?

I see ads for various charities. One for water. 'Send us money,' They tell us, 'and we'll dig a well and save children's lives.' My question is what kind of people are they that the cannot dig a well for themselves? What kind of men are they that they are apparently fundamentally incapable of digging a well or building a house for themselves or move on from subsistence farming or change their lives in any meaningful way in half a century?

I no longer contribute to African charities. I for one do not want to partly responsible for buying tanks, gun tanks not water or Mercedes for dictators.

It's time Irish government stopped sending aid abroad when there are plenty of charities in this country who will spend it more wisely.

ruthloss

4 million went into a secret account in the Prime Minister's office. (radio this morning).


I blame the Nuns., they just had to go and convert them all those years ago., why?!!

Davidth88

bluecode wrote: »

As for the Uganda issue. I'm surprised anyone is surprised. Africa in general is an absolute basket case when it comes to running their own affairs. More than 35 years ago as a teenager in school I took part in a Concern 24 hour fast to raise money for Africa. It's clear it was a complete waste of time. Almost nothing has changed. Concern is still going strong feeding people in Africa. Same with all the other charities.

You really have to ask why nothing has apparently changed in all that time? What is the problem with Africans in general?

I see ads for various charities. One for water. 'Send us money,' They tell us, 'and we'll dig a well and save children's lives.' My question is what kind of people are they that the cannot dig a well for themselves? What kind of men are they that they are apparently fundamentally incapable of digging a well or building a house for themselves or move on from subsistence farming or change their lives in any meaningful way in half a century?

I no longer contribute to African charities. I for one do not want to partly responsible for buying tanks, gun tanks not water or Mercedes for dictators.

It's time Irish government stopped sending aid abroad when there are plenty of charities in this country who will spend it more wisely.

+1000 . I have not given any money to any African based charities for years for exactly this reason

Show Time

bluecode wrote: »

Get your facts right. The Germans are not funding us. Any money sent to Ireland was used to bailout the banks which in turn was sent to bail out the bondholders and most of all to bail out German banks. The Germans are giving us aid.

As for the Uganda issue. I'm surprised anyone is surprised. Africa in general is an absolute basket case when it comes to running their own affairs. More than 35 years ago as a teenager in school I took part in a Concern 24 hour fast to raise money for Africa. It's clear it was a complete waste of time. Almost nothing has changed. Concern is still going strong feeding people in Africa. Same with all the other charities.

You really have to ask why nothing has apparently changed in all that time? What is the problem with Africans in general?

I see ads for various charities. One for water. 'Send us money,' They tell us, 'and we'll dig a well and save children's lives.' My question is what kind of people are they that the cannot dig a well for themselves? What kind of men are they that they are apparently fundamentally incapable of digging a well or building a house for themselves or move on from subsistence farming or change their lives in any meaningful way in half a century?

I no longer contribute to African charities. I for one do not want to partly responsible for buying tanks, gun tanks not water or Mercedes for dictators.

It's time Irish government stopped sending aid abroad when there are plenty of charities in this country who will spend it more wisely.

Smelly Bob got everyone off their ass for Africa and while the rest of the world gave a helping hand the Africans themselves did nothing.

SEPT 23 1989

We hand over 600m in aid even though we have lines of people in the Capital city queuing up for food because they can't afford to eat

600m would create a lot of jobs so these people could afford food

donegal_road

€166m in aid over 5 years to Uganda from Ireland...

if you find this thread interesting, here are a couple of links from 2 years ago that make for compelling reading.

Link 1

The following link is from an old discussion on Politics.ie on Tullow's investment in Ugandan oil and FF's connection with same

Link 2

telecaster

Show Time wrote: »

Smelly Bob got everyone off their ass for Africa and while the rest of the world gave a helping hand the Africans themselves did nothing.

What is seldom acknowledged in the mainstream media is that the game is hideously rigged against Africa.

The mantra of free-trade as epoused by the EU and the United States is really "free-trade (but on our terms)".

It is cheaper to produce many products and resources within Africa than within EU/US, but the subsidies which are paid - particularly to the agriculture sectors - in these more developed nations effectively prohibits the African export business as they can not compete against subsidised markets. This is not freetrade.

There is also the fact that Africa has been effectively stripped of its resources and then put in the position of necessitating imports of finished goods. For example, raw materials leave Africa at a knockdown rate - often a condition of receiving aid is the privitisation of resources (look up Structural Adjustment Policies), the resources are bought for a song by 'western investors'. Then if an African nation wants to buy an airplane to improve aspects of their infrastructure, they are often (partially) constructed using the natural resources which have initially been exported. Effectively they get shafted both ends of the deal.

Why can't they build their own airplanes?

Pretty much because the talented and educated get the hell out of these dysfunctional nations asap.

Colonialism never ended, it just got better PR.

Chinasea

Show Time wrote: »

Smelly Bob got everyone off their ass for Africa and while the rest of the world gave a helping hand the Africans themselves did nothing.

How though, is this the fault of the babies starving to death right at this very moment?

Show Time

Chinasea wrote: »

How though, is this the fault of the babies starving to death right at this very moment?

It is the fault of their own governments for not getting their own infrastructure on track and house in order when the money was rolling in.

Instead the money went on tanks and plans and guns so the warlords could kill each other.

So please don't give me that crap about starving babies when here in Ireland we have kids going to school hungry.

The entire continent of Africa is a money black hole dragging down the rest of the world.

squod

Four million euro of Irish Aid funding to Uganda has gone missing in a suspected fraud, the Government has disclosed.

Fraud on whose side? Our side their side or whats the story? Anyway it's a drop in the ocean compared to the billions the Anglo bail-out fraud has cost us so far.

Chinasea

Show Time wrote: »

It is the fault of their own governments for not getting their own infrastructure on track and house in order when the money was rolling in.

So, let the starving sinner of a mother and baby die.



So please don't give me that crap about starving babies when here in Ireland we have kids going to school hungry.

What kids where? Oh yea, in the shanty towns, no water, no electricity, no food, no welfare no nothing.

The entire continent of Africa is a money black hole dragging down the rest of the world. NICE

.

planetX

The thing is that if the government over there prefers to let people starve and spend its money on warplanes, is it the right thing to do to prop up that government by helping out their own poor? Are we just enabling the regime? No country with a military spend should get a penny of aid, it's up to the people there to get rid of their government and replace it with one that has some morals. We could help by imposing sanctions unless they implement basic human rights.

Show Time

Chinasea wrote: »

.

Cut the holy joe stuff it won't work with me.

Nodin

Show Time wrote: »

Cut the holy joe stuff it won't work with me.

You have to be a "holy joe" to give a **** about humanity in general? Thats news to me.

MaxSteele

Those who see the merit in donating to the likes of Oxfam, Trocaire, etc. can do so of their own free will.

No one is stopping them. It's your own disposable income.

But taxes in the exchequer are there to serve the people paying them up. Not to squander 600 million's worth on Uganda of all places. Digging wells and planting seeds in third world countries isn't my idea of a public service.

telecaster

planetX wrote: »

No country with a military spend should get a penny of aid, it's up to the people there to get rid of their government and replace it with one that has some morals. We could help by imposing sanctions unless they implement basic human rights.

At the risk of paraphrasing the Boromir meme....one does not simply oust a totalitarian military government.

From Human Rights Watch: "The country’s security forces regularly use lethal force, especially during political demonstrations. Opposition politicians, their supporters, and some journalists face harassment, beatings, and arrest. The Ugandan military, despite efforts by key donors countries to ‘professionalize’ them, has yet to address the severe due process violations in military courts – especially the prosecution of civilians, who should be tried in civilian courts. Torture in detention is endemic, with torturers rarely brought to justice. Access to healthcare and education remains a serious problem. Uganda’s notorious Anti-Homosexuality Bill, which proposes the death penalty for some consensual same-sex activities, could still be voted on, threatening the freedom of Uganda’s LGBT community."

The country is not long out of civil war. To suggest that it scrap military spend is utterly naive. There are many heavily armed non-govt actors in the region. If Uganda did not spend on military its government would be overthrown by another undemocratic military regime.

Sanctions are moral tokenism and invariably hurt the wrong people.

The relativism of 'Irish babies are hungry' is bizarre. Conditions in Uganda are from an altogether different paradigm of experience. Children in Ireland are not routinely kidnapped, mutilated, forced in to armed gangs, deprived of education. Yes Ireland has social problems - but turning off an international aid programme is not going to cure any of them. There are social and poverty traps here, and agencies here are funded to deal with them.