Garda Sergeant can't afford food

bamboozle · 19-10-2012 09:04AM

simple solution for the poor family

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/features/2012/1019/1224325453675.html?via=mr

i believe its cheaper to get a dishwasher repaired in Oz also...

The GRA are doing a great job getting supportive stories in the Times.

Boombastic · 19-10-2012 10:02AM

Potential-Monke wrote: »

............................

But it's well known that the life expectancy of a Garda is less than the average. I can't find the original document, but a CSO report stated that in 2006 the average life expectancy of a male is 83.6 years, but a retired Garda is 76.

So, this would mean the Retired Garda would have a pension of €730k (including the lump sum). So, no, not quite millionaires.

............................

Any links to this makey-upy story? I've looked but can't find any. I heard they drop dead as soon as they retire, so that makes their pension (including lump sum) to be about €73,000:eek:

Chucky the tree · 19-10-2012 10:13AM

fits wrote: »

I have no reason to disbelieve this story.

If I had a family of four or five I might, yes!

What would it take for people to sympathise?

If he werent a garda would it help?
If the salary were divided between two people would it help?
If they had already let their massive mortgage get into huge arrears would it help?

This middle income bracket is supposed to be the one propping up the economy but they are more and more pressed.

I have left Ireland now and all I can see when I look back are a load of people squabbling on a sinking ship.

If they actually budget properly and still struggled then more people would care. Clearly these people have no clue though so why should we care when some clowns continue to spend like it's 2007 and then whinge when they are told they can't afford to?

Qualitymark · 19-10-2012 10:25AM

I'm disheartened by the cold sarcasm of many posters on this thread.

There are no reasons to disbelieve the figures given by MABS on this family's difficulties.

Sure, they could trim here and there, but the fact remains that they're in the classic Micawber situation:

"Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery."

They have little choice about their income and expenditure. Even if they trimmed their food and clothing bills, they would still be coming out with too little money for their outgoings.

As for the people who are advocating the wife making extra money, it's simply not that easy. People don't have money to spend at the moment, so any nice-little-earner plan is liable to cost money and bring in none.

Chucky the tree · 19-10-2012 10:32AM

Qualitymark wrote: »

I'm disheartened by the cold sarcasm of many posters on this thread.

There are no reasons to disbelieve the figures given by MABS on this family's difficulties.

Of course there is. They claim they spend €4 per week on TV license which would be €206 per year yet the TV license only costs €160. Not only are they lying but they are not even doing a basic job of covering it up.

Madam_X · 19-10-2012 10:36AM

Much as I despise the anti public sector brigade and much as I understand plenty of house-buyers were not being foolish during the "boom", it's difficult to take this story seriously. Trying to put myself in their shoes and all I can think is: with an income like that, there is bound to be scope for making cuts. Prestigious colleges are not essential.
I don't disbelieve the story but I also think many of their grievances would be solved via strict budgeting. It sucks but you gotta do it when you gotta do it.

Were they mad going to the media with a story like this? A garda like?

:eek:
If they thought they'd get sympathy, their sense of delusion must know no bounds - maybe they need a swift kick back to reality re their spending habits also.

Qualitymark · 19-10-2012 10:38AM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Of course there is. They claim they spend €4 per week on TV license which would be €206 per year yet the TV license only costs €160. Not only are they lying but they are not even doing a basic job of covering it up.

Ah yes, the TV licence would cost €3.07 a week. Big mistake. That €48.03 a year will save them!

Thing is, I think many people are in trouble. We eat lentil soup a couple of times a week as the main meal; the gas central heating boiler is broken and there's no way of getting a new one - €2,200 quoted; thank goodness we got a wood-burning stove when we saw the writing on the wall - and life varies between panic and a basic level of grinding fear. And public servants, who get annual increments, allowances and gigantic, unimaginable pension packages, have no idea what it's like for those outside their world.

But that doesn't mean we shouldn't recognise that other people can be in dire straits. Looking at the figures for the garda family in the Irish Times article, I'd say "emigrate, for goodness sake" - except that in their 50s, this isn't even a feasible option.

Chucky the tree · 19-10-2012 10:42AM

Qualitymark wrote: »

Ah yes, the TV licence would cost €3.07 a week. Big mistake. That €48.03 a year will save them!

Makes you wonder how many other "mistakes" they made. If they saved €48 a year on each item listed because they lied about the actually cost, that would be a saving of €768. Which is a big difference.

pickarooney · 19-10-2012 10:43AM

Qualitymark wrote: »

Ah yes, the TV licence would cost €3.07 a week. Big mistake. That €48.03 a year will save them!

I could get fifty kilos of tomatoes for that and make enough pasta sauce to feed a family for a year. Not that that would be a sane or healthy thing to do, but...

Boombastic · 19-10-2012 10:45AM

Qualitymark wrote: »

.........
There are no reasons to disbelieve the figures given by MABS on this family's difficulties.
........................

There are many reasons to disbelieve the figures by Mabs. 4*52=208 for the TV licence. This is one figure we can reliably check and it is wrong. TV Licence costs €160. What else is wrong? I'm still awaiting clarification from Mabs re: the TV licence figures, either Mabs are incompetent and misleading struggling families regarding the cost of a tv licence or the figures attributed to them are wrong.

€208 is €48/year more that they need to pay the bill. Who ever supplied these figures is not even doing a basic job of it, yet have no problem shouting in the media about how they can't see any way of making cuts - they are making these selves look ridiculous that basic, easy accessible facts weren't checked before crying the poor mouth.

So who is it that's incompetent - the journalist or Mabs??

2ndcoming · 19-10-2012 10:56AM

Boombastic wrote: »

He brings home 715/week. 715 * 52 = 37180 out of a salary of 75,000

75,000-37180 = 37820 He pays 37,820 or 50.42%tax on all of his wages(this does not include pension, insurance etc as these are accounted for separately)
could someone please explain to me how he pays so much tax (I'm not a financial adviser as previously mentioned)

As you have said and is evident in your sum above, you have absolutely no idea about personal finance, yet you're easily the most opinionated and regular poster on this thread. Opinion without knowledge is worthless at best and dangerous at worst.

jmayo · 19-10-2012 10:58AM

fits wrote: »

I have no reason to disbelieve this story.

If I had a family of four or five I might, yes!

Are you saying that you would be spending anything between €442 (3100/7) and €515 (3100/6) on clothes and shoes for each member ?
That is a hefty amount to be spending and if you decide to spend money on designer brands rather than fooking food then you would be a moron.

fits wrote: »

What would it take for people to sympathise?

The ones I have smypathy for are the ones who are sick or have cronically/terminally sick members in their family, the ones who are left on waiting lists, the ones who are forgotten and left alone to care for the sick and elderly in their homes whilst they are actually saving the state the majority of the cost of the care, or the ones who through bad luck are left up the creek even though they were always PRUDIENT and didn't climb on board the crazy cheap credit train to supposed riches.

fits wrote: »

If he werent a garda would it help?

The fact that he is a reasonably well paid public servant, who wants to keep a certain salary to fund his families lifestyle does mean that the taxpayers basically are being asked to cough up.

fits wrote: »

This middle income bracket is supposed to be the one propping up the economy but they are more and more pressed.

That is true, but most of those middle income people also cut their cloth to suit their measure and don't go whinging that they can't afford prestigious colleges, all the while looking for the other taxpayers to basically fund their lifestyle. :mad:

fits wrote: »

I have left Ireland now and all I can see when I look back are a load of people squabbling on a sinking ship.

So if you have left and are not paying tax here, then kindly don't be telling the rest of us how we should all pay more tax so that mr garda and his wife can continue enjoying a lifestyle they can no longer afford.

Qualitymark · 19-10-2012 10:58AM

pickarooney wrote: »

I could get fifty kilos of tomatoes for that and make enough pasta sauce to feed a family for a year. Not that that would be a sane or healthy thing to do, but...

Really? Where? (And do you put meat in your past sauce? I use a kilo of Lidl lean mince to make a load of it and freeze it, with tinned tomatoes, purée, mushrooms, carrots, celery, onions, reekings of garlic, thyme, a slosh of €3-a-bottle Aldi wine.)

Boombastic · 19-10-2012 11:15AM

2ndcoming wrote: »

As you have said and is evident in your sum above, you have absolutely no idea about personal finance, yet you're easily the most opinionated and regular poster on this thread. Opinion without knowledge is worthless at best and dangerous at worst.

Neither do Mabs by the looks of this.

Mr. Incognito · 19-10-2012 11:18AM

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/1017/1224325338822.html?via=mr

Now, the family’s total weekly income, including child benefit, is €807 net, according to Mabs. The following is its projected weekly expenditure, according to a schedule prepared by the same agency :

Mortgage (interest only): €280.00
Mortgage Protection Insurance €15,00
Buildings/Contents Insurance €7.00
Food/Housekeeping €200,00
Electricity Usage €25.00
Heat/Fuel Usage €25.00

TV licence €4.00
Waste Charges €5.00
Telephone/Other utilities €43.00
Transports costs €127.50
Educational costs (college registration fees, children’s uniforms) €75.00
Clothing/Footwear €60.00
Medical costs (insurance) €73.23
Repairs & Maintenance €20.00
Other Expenditure €84.00
Credit Union €50.00

Total €1,093.73

Not included are weekly pension-related contributions of around €80.

Seriously

SERIOUSLY!!!!!!!!!!

€200 a week on Food??? Hardly eating cornflakes there.

Potential-Monke · 19-10-2012 11:24AM

Boombastic wrote: »

Any links to this makey-upy story? I've looked but can't find any. I heard they drop dead as soon as they retire, so that makes their pension (including lump sum) to be about €73,000:eek:

I understand your sarcasm, and i've given a better look today in a less inebriated state. All i've found on the internet is a reference to the same study, but nothing from the CSO website. So, in the interests of fairness, i have emailed the CSO and looked for the report. Once i receive it, i shall post the details/link and/or attach the file, or i will refute my claim.

Qualitymark · 19-10-2012 11:41AM

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/1017/1224325338822.html?via=mr

Seriously

SERIOUSLY!!!!!!!!!!

€200 a week on Food??? Hardly eating cornflakes there.

Mind you, this illustrates a common problem in Ireland - people really don't understand how to cook cheap, nourishing, delicious food from fresh ingredients. A TV show, a radio show and nationwide courses on this would make a big difference to Irish health and finance.

bamboozle · 19-10-2012 11:42AM

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/1017/1224325338822.html?via=mr

Seriously

SERIOUSLY!!!!!!!!!!

€200 a week on Food??? Hardly eating cornflakes there.

they obviously shop in Fallon & Byrnes, Donnybrook Fair & superquinn.

if they're that stuck why doesnt the mother mind kids in her home...i vaguely recall stay at home mothers can do that without affecting tax credits etc.

Furthermore, MABS claiming weekly income including child benefit is 802. which would suggest 3200 PM including child benefit. Whereas any tax calculator online would suggest 75k gross for someone married with a single income is just over 4k PM add in 420 child benefit and that's 1105PW...once again big gaps in the article.

Qualitymark · 19-10-2012 11:45AM

bamboozle wrote: »

they obviously shop in Fallon & Byrnes, Donnybrook Fair & superquinn.

if they're that stuck why doesnt the mother mind kids in her home...i vaguely recall stay at home mothers can do that without affecting tax credits etc.

I vaguely recall that most families don't have extra money to pay for minders.

Aidric · 19-10-2012 11:53AM

Qualitymark wrote: »

Really? Where? (And do you put meat in your past sauce? I use a kilo of Lidl lean mince to make a load of it and freeze it, with tinned tomatoes, purée, mushrooms, carrots, celery, onions, reekings of garlic, thyme, a slosh of €3-a-bottle Aldi wine.)

You could do without the extravagance.

Heroditas · 19-10-2012 11:57AM

bamboozle wrote: »

...once again big gaps in the article.

Of course.
The key line is this:

Verification of the garda’s weekly income was available in the form of his payslip and we had permission to publish it in its original form, with name and identifying details redacted. A view was taken by senior editors, however, that certain other details might have identified the payee so this too was withheld.

i.e. there was never any letter but we're going to hide behind Data Protection laws to pretend they're actually concealing this person whereas this person doesn't actually exist.

bamboozle · 19-10-2012 11:57AM

Qualitymark wrote: »

I vaguely recall that most families don't have extra money to pay for minders.

do kids stay at home unattended while their parents are out working?

fits · 19-10-2012 11:59AM

jmayo wrote: »

Are you saying that you would be spending anything between €442 (3100/7) and €515 (3100/6) on clothes and shoes for each member ?
That is a hefty amount to be spending and if you decide to spend money on designer brands rather than fooking food then you would be a moron.

I have absolutely no idea what I would be spending as I have no family but I do know that uniforms, kids growing out of clothes, weddings, communions, sports gear all add up very quickly.

The ones I have smypathy for are the ones who are sick or have cronically/terminally sick members in their family, the ones who are left on waiting lists, the ones who are forgotten and left alone to care for the sick and elderly in their homes whilst they are actually saving the state the majority of the cost of the care, or the ones who through bad luck are left up the creek even though they were always PRUDIENT and didn't climb on board the crazy cheap credit train to supposed riches.

supposed riches??? The bought a house!

So if you have left and are not paying tax here, then kindly don't be telling the rest of us how we should all pay more tax so that mr garda and his wife can continue enjoying a lifestyle they can no longer afford.

I didn't tell anyone anything of the sort. Would my opinion be more valid to you if id stayed behind and lived on the dole?

You know what I really love Ireland and miss it but I cannot stand the horrible attitude on this thread. I have been in financial trouble before. I even visited MABS so I know how it works. The absolute psychological strain of it is awful. People are killing themselves over this stuff.

No this story is not the worst ever but all anyone can seem to do is piss on it. Am truly disgusted.

Qualitymark · 19-10-2012 12:00PM

Aidric wrote: »

You could do without the extravagance.

Ah yes, we're the undeserving poor.

bamboozle wrote: »

do kids stay at home unattended while their parents are out working?

Grandparents and unemployed relatives are deployed increasingly.

fits wrote: »

You know what I really love Ireland and miss it but I cannot stand the horrible attitude on this thread. I have been in financial trouble before. I even visited MABS so I know how it works. The absolute psychological strain of it is awful. People are killing themselves over this stuff.

I think this begrudging attitude is really what has Ireland in the mess it's in. Countries like Iceland and Denmark, where the governments immediately acted to support those in trouble - without begrudgery from their neighbours - got back into financial order very fast. In Ireland we're tearing each other to pieces, and tearing our country to pieces in the process.

fits · 19-10-2012 12:06PM

Madam_X wrote: »

Much as I despise the anti public sector brigade and much as I understand plenty of house-buyers were not being foolish during the "boom", it's difficult to take this story seriously. Trying to put myself in their shoes and all I can think is: with an income like that, there is bound to be scope for making cuts. Prestigious colleges are not essential.
I don't disbelieve the story but I also think many of their grievances would be solved via strict budgeting. It sucks but you gotta do it when you gotta do it.

Were they mad going to the media with a story like this? A garda like? :eek:
If they thought they'd get sympathy, their sense of delusion must know no bounds - maybe they need a swift kick back to reality re their spending habits also.

Most colleges now require something like 2000 in registration fees which is fairly hefty. im not sure what its like in the ITs.

Also I'm guessing that the journalist sought them out rather than the reverse.

jmayo · 19-10-2012 12:52PM

fits wrote: »

I have absolutely no idea what I would be spending as I have no family but I do know that uniforms, kids growing out of clothes, weddings, communions, sports gear all add up very quickly.

Well as someone with kids, young kids who are growing at a rate of knots, I wouldn't be spending over 400 euro a year on them or myself for that matter.

fits wrote: »

supposed riches??? The bought a house!

Yeah, but what type of house ?
It was stated they bought a house in a nice neighbourhood with good schools.
Why should it be possible for someone on a single salary between 60k to 75k to be able to buy a house in certain neighbourhoods ?
I knew that I couldn't afford to buy in certain areas and I didn't hock myself up to the eyebasll to do us.
I think this family aspires to a lifestyle that there income simply cannot afford.

Also how do we know they didn't buy anything else ?
They have two cars, what type are they ?

Qualitymark wrote: »

Ah yes, we're the undeserving poor.

I think this begrudging attitude is really what has Ireland in the mess it's in.

No what has Ireland in the mess is the fooking sense of ENTITLEMENT that pervaids large chunks of our society.
This is particularly noticable amongst employees of the state who thought during the Celtic Tiger and the bubble that they should also be getting a big slice of the pie, but now that there is no money that they should not share the pain.

Countries like Iceland and Denmark, where the governments immediately acted to support those in trouble - without begrudgery from their neighbours - got back into financial order very fast. In Ireland we're tearing each other to pieces, and tearing our country to pieces in the process.

Yeah lets compare the relative salaries between Iceland/Denmark and ourselves shall we ?
I wonder how much a police sergant is on in those countries.

BTW you get begrudery when you start asking one person to make sacrifices so others don't have to.

jam_mac_jam · 19-10-2012 01:01PM

Qualitymark wrote: »

Ah yes, we're the undeserving poor.

Grandparents and unemployed relatives are deployed increasingly.

I think this begrudging attitude is really what has Ireland in the mess it's in. Countries like Iceland and Denmark, where the governments immediately acted to support those in trouble - without begrudgery from their neighbours - got back into financial order very fast. In Ireland we're tearing each other to pieces, and tearing our country to pieces in the process.

Iceland let the banks fail and didnt pay back their debts, that's the difference. They looked after people by allowing them to get out of debts they could never pay back. Nothing to do with begrudery whatever that is.

fits · 19-10-2012 01:20PM

If you want to know what begrudgery is, this is a pretty good explanation.

http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/column-%e2%80%98we-irish-are-defined-by-a-lack-of-empathy%e2%80%99-199994-Aug2011/

Lemming · 19-10-2012 01:26PM

38 pages and most of it still ignores the elephant in the figures provided. Accounting for 52 weeks, and going by the provided figures, the family are spending over €10,000 a year on food. And still can't feed themselves apparently.

Sorry, but that statistic alone is pretty hard to accept as being credible. And it's the one statistic that is at the crux of the article; "corn flake days".

Proxy · 19-10-2012 01:29PM

Lemming wrote: »

38 pages and most of it still ignores the elephant in the figures provided. Accounting for 52 weeks, and going by the provided figures, the family are spending over €10,000 a year on food. And still can't feed themselves apparently.

Sorry, but that statistic alone is pretty hard to accept as being credible. And it's the one statistic that is at the crux of the article; "corn flake days".

Exactly. Just taking the two obvious gapes in the story being the food bill and the erroneous TV licence figure, throws all other numbers into disrepute.

This story succeeded in creating a stir at least.

Garda Sergeant can't afford food

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