Cannabis

Pawwed Rig

anotherfinemess wrote: »

Cannabis isn't a drug, it's a plant.

The poppy is a plant too

allinthehead

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

The poppy is a plant too

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/heroin/transform/

Hardly the same now is it?

Pawwed Rig

allinthehead wrote: »

Hardly the same now is it?

Why?

Mushrooms are a plant aswell. Just because something is natural does not make it harmless

mikom

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

The poppy is a plant too

So is Ricinus communis................ as in Ricin.
I can legally grow it.

Ricin Toxin from Castor Bean Plant, Ricinus communis

Ricin is one of the most poisonous naturally occuring substances known.
The seeds from the castor bean plant, Ricinus communis, are poisonous to people, animals and insects. One of the main toxic proteins is "ricin", named by Stillmark in 1888 when he tested the beans' extract on red blood cells and saw them agglutinate. Now we know that the agglutination was due to another toxin that was also present, called RCA (Ricinus communis agglutinin). Ricin is a potent cytotoxin but a weak hemagglutinin, whereas RCA is a weak cytotoxin and a powerful hemagglutinin.

Seeds direct from Co. Mayo........... http://www.seedaholic.com/ricinus-communis-impala.html

How do you square that circle?

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Why?

Mushrooms are a plant aswell. Just because something is natural does not make it harmless

mushrooms are pretty awesome though.

well, the ones that won't outright murder you

dimcoin

Boskowski wrote: »

Not in Ireland. Even the minutest amounts are often prosecuted with full force and anything bigger than personal use is being reported on in the media often with largely inflated 'street values'. Kick someone into a wheelchair in a drunken rage and you're likely to get off lighter than if caught with a dozen cannabis plants in your house.

Thats terrible. I am up in Canada for the weekend and the police in Vancouver allow mass selling of Cannabis as well as open consumption in designated areas on 420(April 20th) and other days of cannabis celebration.(Not that I am stating I consume) You can even set up a tent with signs stating you have cannabis for sale.

WHAT is driving the Guards attitudes against Cannabis?

Is there any chance of just getting a ticket(like a speeding ticket) with a fine for possession or do they make an arrest every time?

Edit: Edited for clarification.

InTheTrees

Here's some interesting hard numbers from the USA. Also note they dont include the savings in law enforcement, prosecution, punishment etc. which are also projected to be sizable. The sources are in the article in the link at the bottom of the page:

$1.53 billion: The amount the national legal marijuana market is worth.

$10.2 billion: The estimated amount the national legal marijuana market will be worth in five years.

$6.17 million: The amount of tax revenue collected in Colorado on legal marijuana sales in just the first two months of 2014.

$98 million: The total tax revenue that Colorado could reap in the fiscal year that begins in July.

$40 million: The amount of marijuana tax revenue Colorado is devoting to public school construction.

7,500-10,000: The estimated number of marijuana industry jobs that currently exist in Colorado.

$190 million: The amount in taxes and fees legal marijuana is projected to raise for the state of Washington over four years starting in mid-2015.

$105 million: The estimated annual sales tax revenue generated by medical marijuana dispensaries in California.

$142.19 million: The estimated size of the medical marijuana market in Arizona in 2014.

$36 million: The amount of estimated tax revenue Maine would earn every year if it legalized and regulated marijuana.

$21.5 to $82 million: The amount of estimated tax revenue Rhode Island would earn every year if it legalized and regulated marijuana.

$134.6 million: The amount of estimated tax revenue Maryland would earn every year if it legalized and regulated marijuana.

$17.4 billion: The estimated total amount that marijuana prohibition costs state and federal governments every year, according to a 2010 study by Harvard University economist Jeffrey Miron.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/19/benefits-legalizing-weed-by-the-numbers_n_5173785.html

InTheTrees

dimcoin wrote: »

Thats terrible. I am up in Canada for the weekend and the police in Vancouver allow mass selling of Cannabis as well as open consumption in designated areas on 420 and other days of cannabis celebration.

People in Ireland may not appreciate the meaning of April 4th because they write the date differently, it would be 20/4 not 4/20...

NordieSteve

dimcoin wrote: »

WHAT is driving the Guards attitudes against Cannabis?
.

It's an easy arrest and makes them look like they are doing something.

A criminal conviction follows you until the day you die and having a criminal record for possession of marijuana you intend to use for personal gain is ridiculous.

BetterThanThou

I think the whole "Pro weed, anti-alcohol" crowd aren't so much against alcohol, it's more a thing of "Why ban weed when alcohol is worse?", which I agree with. I don't want alcohol banned, it serves it's purposes, it's great as long as people use it the right way, and would destroy many people's social lives if it was. But I think weed, when smoked without tobacco, is definitely better for one's health than alcohol, especially if used in a vaporizer rather than smoked. Hell, legalizing weed without banning alcohol would probably lead to a reduction in drunk violence, because then people would have the option to chill out with a blunt.

Wompa1

Alcohol is awful but the pot ain't much good either. A plant that's purpose is to disorient animals that would try to eat it, likely isn't the best thing for us to be consuming. At least not in the way we are...

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/04/140415181156.htm

http://www.wptz.com/Marijuana-use-linked-to-heart-problems/25627390

http://www.schizophrenia.com/prevention/streetdrugs.html

dharma200

Oh god wompa1.... Please educate yourself....

Wompa1

dharma200 wrote: »

Oh god wompa1.... Please educate yourself....

In what way?, I've smoked Pot and I've drank alcohol. I've read the positives about cannabis and I've watched documentaries (Check out the HBO Documentaries, there also one produced by BBC). They also discuss the negatives.

By the way, none of this has made me change my views. I think it should be legalized...people can decide whether they smoke it. It would be nice to restrict where it can be smoked, just like legally you shouldn't be drinking in public or drunk and disorderly in public. People get stoned should keep it inside and keep the smoke to themselves.

My partner also works at a drug rehabilitation center. How would you like me to read to further my education on the subject? I'm open to it.

D'Agger

Dharma200 - there's a posting standard for this forum which can be found in the forum charter & a general boards rule of 'attack the post not the poster' please take note of these before posting again please.

Maguined

Wompa1 wrote: »

Alcohol is awful but the pot ain't much good either. A plant that's purpose is to disorient animals that would try to eat it, likely isn't the best thing for us to be consuming. At least not in the way we are...

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/04/140415181156.htm

http://www.wptz.com/Marijuana-use-linked-to-heart-problems/25627390

http://www.schizophrenia.com/prevention/streetdrugs.html

When you say the plant has a purpose what exactly do you mean? Do you believe this purpose was instilled by a divine creator or that the plant evolved this as some sort of defense mechanism?

Wompa1

Maguined wrote: »

When you say the plant has a purpose what exactly do you mean? Do you believe this purpose was instilled by a divine creator or that the plant evolved this as some sort of defense mechanism?

I mean that it has evolved this defense mechanism. From what I have heard a few times before. If a wild animal starts eating the plant it becomes disoriented.

I remember a funny post on here before or maybe Reddit. A Teenager said he was caught smoking Pot by his mother and he tried to calm her down by showing all of the different medicinal values and how it's being used to treat nausea in Cancer patients and relief for people with arthritis. His mother apparently replied with: You shouldn't be taking medicine if you're not sick! The guy was asking people for a good excuse for why him smoking was a good thing. Thought it was funny.

Snoop Dogg has a prescription to treat his anxiety I actually have arthritis and I live in a state with dispensaries and laws to allow it's prescription

aaabbbb

Wompa1 wrote: »

I mean that it has evolved this defense mechanism. From what I have heard a few times before. If a wild animal starts eating the plant it becomes disoriented.

I remember a funny post on here before or maybe Reddit. A Teenager said he was caught smoking Pot by his mother and he tried to calm her down by showing all of the different medicinal values and how it's being used to treat nausea in Cancer patients and relief for people with arthritis. His mother apparently replied with: You shouldn't be taking medicine if you're not sick! The guy was asking people for a good excuse for why him smoking was a good thing. Thought it was funny.

Snoop Dogg has a prescription to treat his anxiety I actually have arthritis and I live in a state with dispensaries and laws to allow it's prescription

Would smoking weed not exacerbate anxiety since users tend to be a bit more paranoid etc ?

Wompa1

aaabbbb wrote: »

Would smoking weed not exacerbate anxiety since users tend to be a bit more paranoid etc ?

Depends on how you react to it. Not everybody who smokes gets paranoid every time. A low percentage, something like 4-6% develop schizophrenia but that one is being debated back and forth, whether there's any direct correlation between their habit and their illness. Saw that one on the BBC documentary.

allinthehead

https://www.google.ie/search?q=harvard+marijuana+schizophrenia&oq=harvard+marijuana+&aqs=chrome.3.69i57j69i60j0l4.15098j0j4&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=91&ie=UTF-8

mikom

Wompa1 wrote: »

A plant that's purpose is to disorient animals that would try to eat it, likely isn't the best thing for us to be consuming.

I think you'll find its real purpose is reproduction.

Tell me, have you ever eaten onions?
Ever hear of livestock staggering and collapsing from eating them?

Wompa1 wrote: »

A low percentage, something like 4-6% develop schizophrenia but that one is being debated back and forth, whether there's any direct correlation between their habit and their illness. Saw that one on the BBC documentary.

http://www.ukcia.org/research/keele_study/Assessing-the-impact-of-cannabis.pdf

Assessing the impact of cannabis use on trends in diagnosed schizophrenia in the United Kingdom from 1996 to 2005.
Conducted by...
Martin Frisher. Department of Medicines Management, Keele University, Staffordshire, ST5 5BG, United Kingdom.
Ilana Crome. Academic Psychiatry Unit, Keele University Medical School, Harplands Hospital, Hilton Road, Staffordshire, ST6 4TH, United Kingdom
Orsolina Martino. Department of Medicines Management, Keele University, Staffordshire, ST5 5BG, United Kingdom.
Peter Croft. Primary Care Sciences Research Centre, Keele University, Staffordshire, ST5 5BG, United Kingdom

Findings below.........

British investigators at Keele University Medical School compared trends in cannabis use and instances of schizophrenia in the United Kingdom from 1996 to 2005.

The research showed that even as marijuana use soared among the general population, “incidence and prevalence of schizophrenia and psychoses were either stable or declining” during this period.

The authors concluded that an expected rise in diagnoses of schizophrenia and psychoses did not occur over the decade under study. “This study does not therefore support the … link between cannabis use and incidence of psychotic disorders,” the study concludes, adding “This concurs with other reports indicating that increases in population cannabis use have not been followed by increases in psychotic incidence.”

Wompa1

allinthehead wrote: »

https://www.google.ie/search?q=harvard+marijuana+schizophrenia&oq=harvard+marijuana+&aqs=chrome.3.69i57j69i60j0l4.15098j0j4&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=91&ie=UTF-8

Yeah but this study: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/04/140415181156.htm

was released this week. It doesn't directly state schizophrenia, it talks about brain abnormalities. Personally, as bad as it sounds. I don't trust most of the studies anyways. One of my ex's was in the research game. Unfortunately, there's so many backdoors when it come's to research studies, if somebody wants to prove a hypothesis they will, meanwhile they'll purposely omit data which might contradict their own findings. It's a rotten game. I'm not sure I believe the skitzo link, which is why I mentioned it's debated. Many have said it's BS, so much so that it's swayed me. Though I couldn't say that it does not with 100% confidence

I do believe however that it does have an adverse affect on some people.

allinthehead

Wompa1 wrote: »

Yeah but this study: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/04/140415181156.htm

was released this week. It doesn't directly state schizophrenia, it talks about brain abnormalities. Personally, as bad as it sounds. I don't trust most of the studies anyways. One of my ex's was in the research game. Unfortunately, there's so many backdoors when it come's to research studies, if somebody wants to prove a hypothesis they will, meanwhile they'll purposely omit data which might contradict their own findings. It's a rotten game. I'm not sure I believe the skitzo link, which is why I mentioned it's debated. Many have said it's BS, so much so that it's swayed me. Though I couldn't say that it does not with 100% confidence

I do believe however that it does have an adverse affect on some people.

Ya i read that study, the problem i have with it is that the sample size was so small, and the conclusions are that more studies are needed. That harvard study used 2000 + and the findings are pretty conclusive.

Your right in what you say about negative effects with some people. A guy i used to know wouldn't get out of the car and go to the shop he was so paranoid. He was a shy person before he smoked and the cannabis seemed to exacerbate his social anxiety. Mind you he did abuse the sh*t out of weed. I know countless people who abuse alcohol, and that has some serious effects on their personalities and health.
Moderation is key with any substance be it coffee, alcohol or weed.
I think because cannabis puts your mind on overdrive and really gets you thinking it can be a problem for people who experience negative thoughts.

mikom

Meanwhile.........

Doctors back two GPs who want cannabis use legalised

TWO GPs who want cannabis legalised and regulated for both recreational and medicinal use have won support from their doctors' body to set up an expert committee to look at the drug's "positive and negative" effects.

Dr Cathal O Suilliobhain, a Dublin-based GP, and Dr Garret McGovern both treat drug addicts and say the majority of people who use cannabis have no health problems and "nobody ever died from cannabis use".

The most serious problem they face is "getting caught", said Dr O Suilliobhain.

He said he had "kids coming to me, usually with parents, and the problem is not the drug itself but a problem with the family, with school, with the law". Dr O Suilliobhain suggested young people were getting convictions – for using cannabis – that were ruining their lives.

The GPs referred to the responses by TDs in the Dail last year when a bill to regulate cannabis and allow its sale came before them. They described some of the reaction as absurd and suggested that Health Minister James Reilly's comments would not have been out of place in 'Reefer Madness', an anti-marijuana propaganda movie of the 1930s.

Dr O Suilliobhain said during his own time as a medical student in the 1970s, there was "a significant number of people rolling spliffs up the back of the classroom" in the Royal College of Surgeons

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/health/doctors-back-two-gps-who-want-cannabis-use-legalised-30219776.html

Wompa1

allinthehead wrote: »

Ya i read that study, the problem i have with it is that the sample size was so small, and the conclusions are that more studies are needed. That harvard study used 2000 + and the findings are pretty conclusive.

You're right in what you say about negative effects with some people. A guy i used to know wouldn't get out of the car and go to the shop he was so paranoid. He was a shy person before he smoked and the cannabis seemed to exacerbate his social anxiety. Mind you he did abuse the sh*t out of weed. I know countless people who abuse alcohol, and that has some serious effects on their personalities and health.
Moderation is key with any substance be it coffee, alcohol or weed.
I think because cannabis puts your mind on overdrive and really gets you thinking it can be a problem for people who experience negative thoughts.

Yeah it is all about moderation. The fact it doesn't give a hangover may mean more users abuse it than alcohol. A housemate of mine would smoke on his lunch break and then all evening when he got off until he lived with me. He broke his lease and asked if he could stay with me, he wanted to get away from the people he lived with. He picked me, because I am his only friend that doesn't smoke. Whilst living with me, he went back to college and got a higher diploma and switched jobs to something outside of retail. Either the weed was having that much of an effect or he used it as an excuse.

My brother smokes in the morning, on his lunch break, he stops at a friends on the way home from work and then while at home too. Relatives came from the states for his wedding. One of my cousins said to me on the way to the airport on their way back home that it's a shame what's happened to my brother. It's like he's not even there anymore, he's just a zombie. Interestingly too, it's got to the point where sometimes he's aggressive on the stuff. But he's kind of an aggressive person, he had temper tantrums when he was kid, so like you said. It kind of exacerbates it. And if he can't get his hands on any of it...get out of his way!!

In the rehab center that my girlfriend works at there are people there who willingly entered the place to try and get off of the pot. One of my ex's got off it before and claimed it was the most difficult thing she'd ever had to do.

InTheTrees

Wompa1 wrote: »

In the rehab center that my girlfriend works at there are people there who willingly entered the place to try and get off of the pot. One of my ex's got off it before and claimed it was the most difficult thing she'd ever had to do.

Its as physically addictive as coffee. Thats it. There are minimal physical effects from stopping. It has few similarities to quitting tobacco for instance.
Two or three days without it and the withdrawal is done.

People who quit may miss it a lot but thats all. I dont doubt that some have to go to a clinic to help them stop but you'll find most of the therapy for that is just lifestyle changes.

How does your GF compare the various treatments for people quitting substances?

Wompa1

InTheTrees wrote: »

Its as physically addictive as coffee. Thats it. There are minimal physical effects from stopping. It has few similarities to quitting tobacco for instance.
Two or three days without it and the withdrawal is done.

People who quit may miss it a lot but thats all. I dont doubt that some have to go to a clinic to help them stop but you'll find most of the therapy for that is just lifestyle changes.

How does your GF compare the various treatments for people quitting substances?

The people in the rehab stay longer than three days and it took my ex a lot longer. But then she and likely the people in the rehab were using it as a crutch

InTheTrees

Its as addictive as coffee. If your GF works in a Rehab centre she knows this right? Ask her about the physical symptoms of quitting cannabis.

allinthehead

Wompa1 wrote: »

The people in the rehab stay longer than three days and it took my ex a lot longer. But then she and likely the people in the rehab were using it as a crutch

I've seen people completely change because of cannabis abuse, drop out of college, lose interest in hobbies, sport etc. I've also seen people do this without abusing cannabis. I think some abusers use it as an excuse when in fact they are just lazy or weak minded. Any intelligent person realises that you can't stay intoxicated from morning to night without some negative consequences.
A few bowls on a friday or saturday night will do no harm. Smoking all day everyday will change a persons life and personality.

FairytaleGirl

I work in an addiction support centre. The long term mental health decline from cannabis abuse (over several years) alone is scary.

Paranoid
Drug induced psychosis
Multiple Personality Disorder
Delusions
Disease of certain areas of the brain causing permanent memory loss
Change in motivation and personality
Depression

It's long term so detrimental to a persons mental health. It's actually quite shocking!

allinthehead

FairytaleGirl wrote: »

I work in an addiction support centre. The long term mental health decline from cannabis abuse (over several years) alone is scary.

Paranoid
Drug induced psychosis
Multiple Personality Disorder
Delusions
Disease of certain areas of the brain causing permanent memory loss
Change in motivation and personality
Depression

It's long term so detrimental to a persons mental health. It's actually quite shocking!

In your experience does the fact that cannabis is illegal make people slow to seek help? Abuse alcohol and you have a disease, abuse cannabis and your a criminal.