Cannabis

p1akuw47h5r3it

areyawell wrote: »

Alcohol cause depression, Paranoia, Heart attacks and Strokes, Heart Disease, Liver Disease and Failure, Pancreatic Disease, Dementia, Strokes, Kidney disease and Failure,Diabetes, Tremors, Osteoporosis, Bowel Cancer, inabt brain development in younger users, Death, Depression, Anxiety, Psychosis.

Smoking cause Lung Cancer, Heart Diseases, Pulmonary diseases, Impotence, Lung Disease, Brain Hemorrhages.

Weed smoked without Tobacco has little effects on the lungs unlike Tobacco and has been proven not to cause cancer. It has hundreds of medical usages. It is safe in moderation but can mess your head around a small bit if you are constantly smoking it. Cannabinoids have been shown to have potential antitumor effects.
It should definitly be made legal for medical purposes and if it was made legal then it should be sold at a fairly high cost!

Do you not think this would just defeat the purpose. I think it should be legalised aswell but charging through the roof will just cause a lot of people to keep buying from whatever source they currently buy from.

p1akuw47h5r3it

catallus wrote: »

http://www.cancerresearchuk.org/cancer-help/about-cancer/cancer-questions/does-smoking-cannabis-cause-cancer

From the above: "So at the moment we don't have clear evidence either way. We do know that smoking is unhealthy. And that, like tobacco, cannabis contains cancer causing substances. Therefore it would seem likely to increase cancer risk. But we need more research to know this for sure."

I think cannabis is a really damaging drug. It wrecks peoples brains. Turns them into zombies who have mood-swings.

Have you got evidence to back this up or is it just an opinion?

catallus

DanDan6592 wrote: »

Have you got evidence to back this up or is it just an opinion?

I just have my own personal experience and my observations of the effects it has had on the people who use it. I can't agree with anyone who says it's a benign substance. But all drugs have their downsides. Drink is a pretty bad drug too, but the effects are not as nearly as damaging or long-lasting to the brain as hash.

Ask any parent who has a child who goes down the route of getting toasted regularly and they'll tell you that it gives people a real personality transplant. Not to mention the silent inner torment brought about by abuse of hash. It opens doors in the mind, and sometimes it's hard to close them again.

To me, the idea that it's a cool way to relax is dishonest. There used to be nothing I enjoyed more than getting stoned, and it was great; it took me a long time to wake up and see that it was having a detrimental effect on my life and those around me.

Each to their own and all that but some of the opinions on here about how hash is harmless is pretty silly to me. I'd hate to see anyone i cared about being led down that path, because it really does change people for the worse.

The science guys have got ways of taking the pain relieving properties of cannabis and delivering them to people who are in need of it, and that's a good thing, but to use that as an excuse that it is a great thing to give to kids is just wrong.

p1akuw47h5r3it

catallus wrote: »

I just have my own personal experience and my observations of the effects it has had on the people who use it. I can't agree with anyone who says it's a benign substance. But all drugs have their downsides. Drink is a pretty bad drug too, but the effects are not as nearly as damaging or long-lasting to the brain as hash.

Ask any parent who has a child who goes down the route of getting toasted regularly and they'll tell you that it gives people a real personality transplant. Not to mention the silent inner torment brought about by abuse of hash. It opens doors in the mind, and sometimes it's hard to close them again.

To me, the idea that it's a cool way to relax is dishonest. There used to be nothing I enjoyed more than getting stoned, and it was great; it took me a long time to wake up and see that it was having a detrimental effect on my life and those around me.

Each to their own and all that but some of the opinions on here about how hash is harmless is pretty silly to me. I'd hate to see anyone i cared about being led down that path, because it really does change people for the worse.

The science guys have got ways of taking the pain relieving properties of cannabis and delivering them to people who are in need of it, and that's a good thing, but to use that as an excuse that it is a great thing to give to kids is just wrong.

Ok fair enough. AFAIR, hash tends to be only detrimental to the brains of developing people i.e. teenagers. I remember reading this in New Scientist Magazine I'll try find the link. So the detrimental argument imo doesn't really hold as this drug would not be made legally available to minors.

I believe that it should be legalized as it is not a dangerous drug, less than dangerous than alcohol, and therefore there is no reason for it to be illegal. I don't understand why some people want to legalise hash and criminalize alcohol however. This would simply be a disaster and open up a huge black market. I drink maybe once every two weeks and would continue to even if alcohol was made illegal. I'd just buy it in North. Ireland or illegally in Ireland.

JimmyCrackCorn

Gurgle wrote: »

Smoking cannabis is a victimless crime.

My arse it is.


When there is that much money involved in the production and sale of an illegal substance people get hurt.

I personally am aware of intimidation and assaults over drug debts and they were cannabis related.

There are on going studies into the dangers of cannabis and aggravation of underlying illnesses.

The drinks industry has been very successful in building a lobby that has steered drinks policy in Ireland very effectively. The Irish cannabis movement have failed to maintain a website.....

Chuck Stone

JimmyCrackCorn wrote: »

When there is that much money involved in the production and sale of an illegal substance people get hurt.

D'uh. Because it's prohibited.

Here's what prohibition of alcohol 'achieved' in the US.

"The reign of tears is over. The slums will soon be a memory. We will turn our prisons into factories and our jails into storehouses and corncribs. Men will walk upright now, women will smile and children will laugh. Hell will be forever for rent."

Reverend Billy Sunday delivered this quotation during a speech at the beginning of prohibition. Many people believed and hoped that prohibition would make the above true. However, as they watched and waited, they realized that nothing was improved, and somehow, things had gotten worse.

The following are statistics detailing how much worse crime got:

Police funding: INCREASED $11.4 Million
Arrests for Prohibition Las Violations: INCREASED 102+%
Arrests for Drunkenness and Disorderly Conduct: INCREASED 41%
Arrests of Drunken Drivers: INCREASED 81%
Thefts and Burglaries: INCREASED 9%
Homicides, Assault, and Battery: INCREASED 13%
Number of Federal Convicts: INCREASED 561%
Federal Prison Population: INCREASED 366%
Total Federal Expenditures on Penal Institutions: INCREASED 1,000%

http://www.albany.edu/~wm731882/organized_crime1_final.html

GalwayGuy2

Here's what prohibition of alcohol 'achieved' in the US.

How long ago did that happen?

Why is this in the Gentleman's club:S

ToxicPaddy

GalwayGuy2 wrote: »

How long ago did that happen?

Why is this in the Gentleman's club:S

Thats a good point.

Ilikeyourcow

Every drug both legal and illegal have side effects. All you have to do is read the inlay of any box of tablets to see how many things could go wrong!!

Alcohol is the deadliest and has killed more people than any other drug or caused more problems for society.

I read that it would take 800 joints to kill you but only a bottle of vodka!!

Legalise weed, tax it, regulate it even in one city like amsterdam and the economic benefits would be huge!!
The goverment benefit hugely from excise duty on drink with all the problems that causes so why not weed!!!

Wicklowandy

I cant believe the people here who want to legalise weed, ban alcohol and tobacco.

Criminals would just move onto the next thing that people wanted and was banned, alcohol and tobacco. Think about the deaths from moonshine and health problems and costs from dodgy tobacco, not to mention the massive costs of trying to maintain this new prohibition.

Also the argument that legal weed would be more expensive is a non starter; compare prices even between the uk and ireland.

The criminals that used to import coke have seen their market fall off a cliff and have replaced their profits by bankrolling grow houses here and selling industrial weed for upto €25 a gram. Production costs are low for them and they dont have the trouble and expense of importing an illegal product. Id place an educated guess that they're making more profit on irish grown weed than on imported coke.

If the production and sale of weed was regulated, even with a similar rate of excise and duty to alcohol and tobacco, it would be cheaper than today, unadulterated, and labelled correctly so thc and cbd levels would be known before use. Large licenced commercial growers could produce it very cheaply.

I dont really have a preference either way; id smoke very very occasionally, but when i do, quality would be important to me (in the same way as drink, id prefer budvar over dutch gold). I think the ideal is decriminalisation for small personal grow. If someone wants to grow <5 plants a couple of times a year, fine, but removing criminals from the mix has to be good for everyone.

hsianloon

Alcohol has been ingrained in the culture of too many European countries for a long time now, it's not going anywhere anytime soon.

Extreme use of anything is never good be it alcohol or weed. Trying to compare which one is worse will be a very difficult bias free thing .

I don't know if the alcoholand smoking industry has any views on weed, if they think it will eat into their profits. People can smokedrink together but the combinations are not exclusive. I drink but never smoke. But it doesn't mean I'll never smoke a joint.

Unfortunately getting over the negative perception weed carries is an uphill task. Yes there are Medical applications which may soften the views, but it will mostly invoke images of hippies and dodgy people doing things. This is the challenge that we need to overcome. The media portrays smoking and drinking as cool such as Mad Men. But the guys who do drugs usually end up with a nasty death, is involved in crime etc

Dubhlinner

Used to love weed a bit too much. Glad to be past that stage.

Nowadays find it a bit hit and miss - get paranoid more often than not because its so bloody strong these days but its nice once in a while with a few drinks. Get some fantastic trains of thought when its a good stone.

I think it should be legal. I just don't think its use would increase, its so easily available anyone who wants it will get it. Should even consider the spanish route and let people grow their own.

I don't think the drinks companies would have much to worry about. Most Irish people find it boring and would prefer to get drunk and go to a club. Stoned in a club ain't much fun.

If we were talking about cocaine/ecstasy, yeah its use would go through the roof - as proven when that mephedrone stuff was being sold in shops, obviously because it fits in with going to clubs and socialising. Weed and alcohol so very very different don't know why they're even compared.

the_syco

areyawell wrote: »

Weed smoked without Tobacco has little effects on the lungs unlike Tobacco

Actually, if smoked the same as tobacco, weed is less harmful. However, weed smokers often hold it in their lungs longer for a "better high" and thus it can do more harm than tobacco.

catallus wrote: »

Ask any parent who has a child who goes down the route of getting toasted regularly and they'll tell you that it gives people a real personality transplant.

Smoking weed whilst the young adults brain is still growing can stunt and/or harm it's growth. Once the young adult hits 20 or so, they can smoke weed and not have such long term effects when they stop smoking it.

Dubhlinner wrote: »

I don't think the drinks companies would have much to worry about. Most Irish people find it boring and would prefer to get drunk and go to a club. Stoned in a club ain't much fun.

The one reason why I don't think the Irish could handle weed is that the same silly ones will drink alcohol and smoke weed at the same time, which is a bad idea as it makes users either very sleepy, or more prone to violent outburts (than just alcohol alone).

The odd thing is; if you suffer bad side effects from weed, most people stop smoking it. If you suffer blackouts, mood swings, vomiting, etc, from drinking alcohol... you continue drinking, as often people worst effected by the drink think that they can "control" their drinking.

=-=

In the same way that some people can handle beer and spirits, some people can handle weed and drink. But in the same way, some people react violently to both.

The following (mental) effects all people, but effects young people a lot more when they're still growing up;

Young adult + alcohol
Blackouts, or periods of amnesia

Young adult + weed
memory, esp short term memory
hallucinations, delusions, etc often only happen when the drug is drank or eaten, rather than smoked.

If you smoke weed after you hit the 20 year mark, you'll have short term memory loss, but this'll go after a few weeks when you stop smoking it. If you smoke it a lot before you hit the 18-20 years mark, you may never recover.

Alcohol can cause short term memory loss, and can prevent long term memories forming.

=-=

IMO, weed should be legalized, as although it can cause the same f**kups as drink, if you have any common sense when you smoke it, you'll have a better time.

=-=

With moon cakes (biscuits and cakes with werd in them), and various "bongs", there are ways to get the THC into your body without the harmful smoke. It can still f**k you up in the brain like any drug, but your high could do your body less harm than daily binge drinking 6 or 7 pints.

If weed itself doesn't get legalized, I hope that medical weed does. Medical weed doesn't get you stoned, but it gives a lot more pain relief than anything out there at the moment.

Wicklowandy

Plenty of people used head shops who would never have dreamed of using 'illegal drugs' but i think there was novelty value to it all; i used to know the guy who ran a headshop in wicklow, and while he was 24hr, he always had a rush of customers when the pubs and clubs kicked them out.

If people could buy drink 24/7 for a novelty period people would cane it, then usage would settle down.

longforddude

come to this....
https://www.facebook.com/events/337190536384477/

nozzferrahhtoo

budzer wrote: »

so alcohol is not a problem every single weekend?

Perhaps it is but you will win no friends to your cause by trying to indict and punish the many with the crimes of the few. If you have issue with the people causing trouble at weekends then target them. Targeting alcohol itself is not just misdirected, but will make enemies out of people who would otherwise be friendly to your main agenda.

You can add my name to Teferis on the long list of people who are completely with you on the legalization of cannabis issue but who will stand on the front lines against you if you attempt to turn your eye to the banning of alcohol.

Especially given most of the arguments you try to bring to bear on the pro-cannabis issue are arguments that would become just as valid were alcohol to be banned. You say for example in your OP "think about how much money they could revenue each year by regulating it." and "people that are making money from it are the low life criminals" and the fact is that the exact same thing would happen if alcohol were banned. We know this because it has been tried, and that IS what happened.

You would erode your own credibility if you attempt to use arguments for one cause but reject their application to another. This "one rule for me and one rule for everyone else" selection bias in your arguments would simply swipe your own legs out from under you.

Edit: Apologies, did not notice it was a necro-thread.

MrVestek

Prop Joe wrote: »

Well the criminals are making money from Prostitution so we should legalise that also,And Human Trafficking and Heroin and stealing cars and tiger kidnapping and extortion and think if all these thing's were legal,The Gardaí would have plenty time to go after real criminals.:rolleyes:

Prostitution is legal in Ireland tho.

InTheTrees

How about a competition?

Using The Googles, see how many learned (ie, scientific) articles you can find on the ill effects of Alcohol.

Then do the same thing with tobacco.

Then do the same thing with cannabis.

That's the reason its been made completely legal in 2 US states with many more legalizing it as medicine and likely to fully legalize eventually.

I think people are imagining hoards of alcoholics being joined by hoards of potheads (they imagine some kind of gaunt heroin addict), while the reality is that the general ratio of people seeking a "buzz" will remain very similar and so cannabis will actually replacce a sizable amount of alcohol use.

There's no need to ban alcohol, that's just scary talk by the anti-weed lobby. I mean seriously does anyone think there's any chance of alcohol being banned in Ireland? Can you imagine the vote on that? Lets ban Wine? Utter nonsense.

BOHtox

Prop Joe wrote: »

Well the criminals are making money from Prostitution so we should legalise that also,And Human Trafficking and Heroin and stealing cars and tiger kidnapping and extortion and think if all these thing's were legal,The Gardaí would have plenty time to go after real criminals.:rolleyes:

That's a facile argument!

Korvanica

InTheTrees wrote: »

Lets ban Wine? Utter nonsense.

I'd be up for that, wine is ****e.

Bigdeadlydave

I think its important for people, young men especially, to learn to be able to have fun without needing mind altering substances, whether thats drink or drugs.

Legalizing drugs would not eliminate the criminal aspect, sure look at the amount of smuggled fags and drink (the drink aspect is sure to increase)

MadsL

Dravokivich wrote: »

We only need to win it here thanks.

Win. Lol. Ask WA, CO, and RI in the US and Portugal and the Czech Republic how they won that war.

Gurgle wrote: »

Smoking legally grown cannabis is a victimless crime. pastime

FYP. Plenty of people have died as a result of drug cartels activities. Grow your own or legalise it is the only way to make it victimless.

Staff Infection

Yeah I don't understand the argument of legalise cannabis and while you're at it ban alcohol.

I'd be in favour of having both of them legal. Would be nice to go with the lads to a pub one weekend and then a dutch style coffee-shop the weekend after. Either drug used in moderation is fine. As long as you don't abuse them they won't abuse you I suppose.

Then from a tax point of view the Government would have two industries to get tax from so they'd be happy too.

Probably won't happen anytime soon but if done properly it could work.

mikom

Bigdeadlydave wrote: »

Legalizing drugs would not eliminate the criminal aspect, sure look at the amount of smuggled fags and drink (the drink aspect is sure to increase)

It would eliminate the criminal aspect for the poor young lad caught with a spliff or two or a plant or two.
That could be your son, nephew, cousin finding it hard to travel and work in the USA or OZ.

See how fun that is for young men.........

Bigdeadlydave

mikom wrote: »

It would eliminate the criminal aspect for the poor young lad caught with a spliff or two or a plant or two.
That could be your son, nephew, cousin finding it hard to travel and work in the USA or OZ.

See how fun that is for young men.........

As a young man myself I have personal responsibility.... sheer stupidity to have the stuff if you plan to go to america or the like. They can hardly feel hard done by when everyone knows the risks.

And lets be realistic, how many people get convictions for having a "spliff or two"? Even so you can deny having convictions because there is no way for the yanks to find out you have a criminal record because the Irish govt cannot release that info.

mikom

Bigdeadlydave wrote: »

As a young man myself I have personal responsibility.... sheer stupidity to have the stuff if you plan to go to america or the like. They can hardly feel hard done by when everyone knows the risks.

And lets be realistic, how many people get convictions for having a "spliff or two"? Even so you can deny having convictions because there is no way for the yanks to find out you have a criminal record because the Irish govt cannot release that info.

Everyone knows the risks of lying to American immigration...............


Everyone in Ireland knew the risks of being outed as a homosexual in the past.........

Everyone in Ireland knew the risks of committing suicide in the past........

Every young girl in Ireland knew the risks of having a child out of wedlock in the past........


See how this works?

Bigdeadlydave

mikom wrote: »

Everyone knows the risks of lying to American immigration...............


Everyone in Ireland knew the risks of being outed as a homosexual in the past.........

Everyone in Ireland knew the risks of committing suicide in the past........

Every young girl in Ireland knew the risks of having a child out of wedlock in the past........


See how this works?

Well they wouldn't have to lie if they didnt have drugs would they? And to get a conviction they would have to either have a serious amount of it or be growing a lot so its hardly one of the lads being locked up, life ruined for having one spliff in his pocket.

mikom

Bigdeadlydave wrote: »

Well they wouldn't have to lie if they didnt have drugs would they?

They wouldn't have to lie, only for the criminal aspect.
Is this becoming clearer.

Is Conor in Cavan a worse person than Chuck in Colorado when both smoke a spliff of homegrown?

Bigdeadlydave

mikom wrote: »

They wouldn't have to lie, only for the criminal aspect.
Is this becoming clearer.

Is Conor in Cavan a worse person than Chuck in Colorado when both smoke a spliff of homegrown?

If you want to goto America, it makes sense not to do something which could jeopardize it. If you do it it is the height of stupidity. No matter what it is. Especially when it is something like having or growing such an amount of cannabis that you get done.

This is a fairly straightforward situation, and I'm not making any call on the morality of smoking cannabis.

mikom

Bigdeadlydave wrote: »

This is a fairly straightforward situation, and I'm not making any call on the morality of smoking cannabis.

Would you like to offer a view on this?