Cannabis

mikom

FairytaleGirl wrote: »

I work in an addiction support centre. The long term mental health decline from cannabis abuse (over several years) alone is scary.

Paranoid
Drug induced psychosis
Multiple Personality Disorder
Delusions
Disease of certain areas of the brain causing permanent memory loss
Change in motivation and personality
Depression

It's long term so detrimental to a persons mental health. It's actually quite shocking!

A few questions.
Of the people that abused cannabis was there any mention any unusual ingredients/additives/adulterants listed on the packaging of cannabis product?
What artificial fertilisers and pest controls were used in its production.
What Thc to Cbd percentage content was listed in what they smoked.
How was it harvested and stored........... was it harvested early........

Because of the forced underground nature of the product currently do you feel it prevented those prone to substance abuse seeking help earlier.

How many of these folks had underlying mental health issues that they were self medicating with a possibly adulterated substance due to its illegality? Similar in a fashion to how some self medicate with alcohol........ which has strict production controls.

how many folks suffered a change in motivation and personality plus depression after a run in with the law having been caught with prohibited plant matter.

The amount of angles to cover is actually quite shocking........

One final query.
Have you ever enjoyed a glass of wine with a meal, relaxed with friends with a drink or two, worked in an off licence or pub, or have any of your level headed friends or family done so?
Now take the wording of your original post and substitute the word cannabis for the word alcohol.......

I work in an addiction support centre. The long term mental health decline from alcohol abuse (over several years) alone is scary.
Paranoid
Drug induced psychosis
Multiple Personality Disorder
Delusions
Disease of certain areas of the brain causing permanent memory loss
Change in motivation and personality
Depression
It's long term so detrimental to a persons mental health. It's actually quite shocking!

At least sufferers of alcohol abuse do not have the stigma of prohibition and we can be sure of what makes up their product.

Stigma and being forced underground.
A few bits to ponder.
Freud had alluded to homosexuality numerous times in his writings, and had concluded that paranoia and homosexuality were inseparable.
According to the American Psychiatric Association, until 1974 homosexuality was a mental illness that needed to be treated.(bollox).
Homosexuality was illegal in Ireland up until 1993.

Tell someone they are bad/evil/mental often enough and they (and the uninformed public) may just begin to believe it.
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MayoSalmon

Quick question to all the pro war on drugs and anti cannabis crowd.

I grow a few trees in my greenhouse out the back for my own personal consumption.

Do you condone or frown upon this?

InTheTrees

FairytaleGirl wrote: »

I work in an addiction support centre. The long term mental health decline from cannabis abuse (over several years) alone is scary.

Paranoid
Drug induced psychosis
Multiple Personality Disorder
Delusions
Disease of certain areas of the brain causing permanent memory loss
Change in motivation and personality
Depression

It's long term so detrimental to a persons mental health. It's actually quite shocking!

Wow.

Sounds like a serious problem.

So there should be some documentation? You're saying you have witnessed Cannabis causing Multiple Personality Disorder? More then once too presumably to be able to connect the two together.

How many patients are admitted every year/week to your facility suffering from the symptoms you describe caused by cannabis?

I'm honestly curious.

FairytaleGirl

We do a fair bit of research in my workplace, a particularly good piece from RCPsyc can be found here (read the whole thing)
[http://m.bjp.rcpsych.org/content/178/2/116.full ]

'A number of studies suggest that heavy cannabis use can lead to an acute functional illness, that is a state resembling the psychosis of acute schizophrenia without the amnesia and confusion of a toxic psychosis.'

Should mention most of our patients would have dual addictions ie: Cannabis and Alcohol - but not all.

About 20% would have already present mental health issues.

My reason for posting originally was to highlight that cannabis is not 'harmless' it absolutely causes long term damage to the brain when used regularly.
But the general consensus is that it's safer than alcohol/tobacco and it's completely untrue. Everyone is aware of the risks associated with drinking and smoking but not of cannabis use.

Wompa1

MayoSalmon wrote: »

Quick question to all the pro war on drugs and anti cannabis crowd.

I grow a few trees in my greenhouse out the back for my own personal consumption.

Do you condone or frown upon this?

Who's pro-war on drugs and anti-cannabis?

mikom

FairytaleGirl wrote: »

But the general consensus is that it's safer than alcohol/tobacco and it's completely untrue.

Well then you saying that cannabis is more dangerous than alcohol/tobacco flies in the face of the famous graph created by by Professor David Nutt, once chairman of the UK's statutory Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs, professor Leslie King and professor Lawrence Phillips, and the Neuropsychopharmacology Unit, Imperial College, London, UK on behalf of the Independent Scientific Committee on Drugs and published in The Lancet ( the world's leading general medical journal) and The Economist......


Background

Proper assessment of the harms caused by the misuse of drugs can inform policy makers in health, policing, and social care. We aimed to apply multicriteria decision analysis (MCDA) modelling to a range of drug harms in the UK.

Findings

MCDA modelling showed that heroin, crack cocaine, and metamfetamine were the most harmful drugs to individuals (part scores 34, 37, and 32, respectively), whereas alcohol, heroin, and crack cocaine were the most harmful to others (46, 21, and 17, respectively). Overall, alcohol was the most harmful drug (overall harm score 72), with heroin (55) and crack cocaine (54) in second and third places.

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736%2810%2961462-6/abstract




This took into account harm to the user and harm to others.
Alcohol trumps all on the harm scale.


Also this came to light in the last few days....

TWO GPs who want cannabis legalised and regulated for both recreational and medicinal use have won support from their doctors' body to set up an expert committee to look at the drug's "positive and negative" effects.

Dr Cathal O Suilliobhain, a Dublin-based GP, and Dr Garret McGovern both treat drug addicts and say the majority of people who use cannabis have no health problems and "nobody ever died from cannabis use".The most serious problem they face is "getting caught", said Dr O Suilliobhain.
http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/health/doctors-back-two-gps-who-want-cannabis-use-legalised-30219776.html

So we have Professor David Nutt, the chairman of the UK's statutory Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs, professor Leslie King, professor Lawrence Phillips, the Neuropsychopharmacology Unit, Imperial College, London, UK, Dr Cathal O Suilliobhain, and Dr Garret McGovern stating the opposite to yourself.


FairytaleGirl, you said ....."But the general consensus is that it's safer than alcohol/tobacco and it's completely untrue".
I would like to see your referenced proof that cannabis is not safer than alcohol/tobacco.
The time for anecdotes has passed.
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Wompa1

InTheTrees wrote: »

Wow.

Sounds like a serious problem.

So there should be some documentation? You're saying you have witnessed Cannabis causing Multiple Personality Disorder? More then once too presumably to be able to connect the two together.

How many patients are admitted every year/week to your facility suffering from the symptoms you describe caused by cannabis?

I'm honestly curious.

If you can find this, it's worth a watch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrutvEFwaFA

I forget if this is the one I'm thinking about. If it's the right one, it was pretty good.

Wompa1

mikom wrote: »

Well then you saying that cannabis is more dangerous than alcohol/tobacco flies in the face of the famous graph created by by Professor David Nutt, once chairman of the UK's statutory Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs, professor Leslie King and professor Lawrence Phillips, and the Neuropsychopharmacology Unit, Imperial College, London, UK on behalf of the Independent Scientific Committee on Drugs and published in The Lancet ( the world's leading general medical journal) and The Economist......


Background

Proper assessment of the harms caused by the misuse of drugs can inform policy makers in health, policing, and social care. We aimed to apply multicriteria decision analysis (MCDA) modelling to a range of drug harms in the UK.

Findings

MCDA modelling showed that heroin, crack cocaine, and metamfetamine were the most harmful drugs to individuals (part scores 34, 37, and 32, respectively), whereas alcohol, heroin, and crack cocaine were the most harmful to others (46, 21, and 17, respectively). Overall, alcohol was the most harmful drug (overall harm score 72), with heroin (55) and crack cocaine (54) in second and third places.

What's the scale? It say's maximum is 100. Is it just a made up 1-100? If it is, I didn't realize it was that bad! It's just behind amphetamine and is ahead of LSD, Ketamine and Extacy. I know alcohol is by far the worst. It's unfortunate that Ireland has such problems with alcohol abuse. It's likely taking years off peoples lives and may even be harming productivity of us in general. Also, the way it harms 20% of people...how does it harm them? It sounds like the other posters estimation of 20% may not be too far off. Though I have never ever heard that 20% of smokers suffer mental health issues. Seems a bit high..teehee

mikom

Wompa1 wrote: »

What's the scale? It say's maximum is 100. Is it just a made up 1-100? If it is, I didn't realize it was that bad! It's just behind amphetamine and is ahead of LSD, Ketamine and Extacy. I know alcohol is by far the worst. It's unfortunate that Ireland has such problems with alcohol abuse. It's likely taking years off peoples lives and may even be harming productivity of us in general. Also, the way it harms 20% of people...how does it harm them? It sounds like the other posters estimation of 20% may not be too far off. Though I have never ever heard that 20% of smokers suffer mental health issues. Seems a bit high..teehee

Drugs were scored out of 100 points, and the criteria were weighted to indicate their relative importance.
The harm is also related to the quality of available product, as I mentioned earlier....
What artificial fertilisers and pest controls were used in its production.
What Thc to Cbd percentage content was listed in what they smoked.
How was it harvested and stored........... was it harvested early........
Alcohol is regulated, cannabis is not.
Quality control is the difference between bad poitin and clean vodka.

Wompa1

mikom wrote: »

Drugs were scored out of 100 points, and the criteria were weighted to indicate their relative importance.

I don't get it. If the study is meant to illustrate the risk to the users and others then shouldn't the scale actually be equitable to that? How many people does it actually harm...What's the actual criteria?

mikom

Wompa1 wrote: »

I don't get it. If the study is meant to illustrate the risk to the users and others then shouldn't the scale actually be equitable to that? How many people does it actually harm...What's the actual criteria?

It is MCDA modelling showing as a choice among alternatives.
Read the a little bit about the Interpretation here....http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736%2810%2961462-6/abstract
Google MCDA also.

Wompa1

mikom wrote: »

It is MCDA modelling showing as a choice among alternatives.
Read the a little bit about the Interpretation here....http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736%2810%2961462-6/abstract
Google MCDA also.

Thanks. So...they didn't have any actually tangible data to back it up. A bunch of people got in a room and set criteria and decided to score based on that criteria. Being the nerd that I am, that's how I pick where to go on Holidays and picking a new place to live. I make a spreadsheet and weight the different criteria based on how important it is to me. E.g. Proximity to work is weighted high, length of the lease was low.

It seems like they are talking about the drugs general use rather than abuse. I can't imagine that abusing cannabis would be worse than abusing Extacy or LSD. There's no way you'd keep your brain together if you're using that stuff every day. Look at Dr. Timothy Leary, he used himself as the subject for the study. He claimed it was all positive, meanwhile he became consumed by it and it took over his life. He just didn't see it as much of a negative. But then why would he? Couldn't see the forest from the trees

mikom

Wompa1 wrote: »

Thanks. So...they didn't have any actually tangible data to back it up.

That's a leap........ considering members from the European Monitoring Centre for Drugs and Drug Addiction, Department of Management, London School of Economics and Political Science, and the Neuropsychopharmacology Unit, Imperial College, London were involved.
I'd say they brought more than their lunch boxes with them.

Wompa1

mikom wrote: »

That's a leap........ considering members from the European Monitoring Centre for Drugs and Drug Addiction, Department of Management, London School of Economics and Political Science, and the Neuropsychopharmacology Unit, Imperial College, London were involved.
I'd say they brought more than their lunch boxes with them.

Do you think abusing Cannabis is really worse than abusing LSD and something like GHB?

mikom

Wompa1 wrote: »

Do you think abusing Cannabis is really worse than abusing LSD and something like GHB?

I don't personally.
I can only surmise that those compiling the analysis took prevalence and common frequency of use into consideration.
In that while trying to minimise overall harm to the peoples of the UK a government should want to focus on where the most harm is occurring.
I have never tried LSD, but knowing of its effects I'd reckon it is not something a person would consume once or twice a week.
Of course there is always the odd one.
In fairness I have never met anyone who has taken it.
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FairytaleGirl, I see you thanking posts.......... but even though I have put direct queries to you, no reply.......
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Wompa1

mikom wrote: »

I don't personally.
I can only surmise that those compiling the analysis took prevalence and common frequency of use into consideration.
In that while trying to minimise overall harm to the peoples of the UK a government should want to focus on where the most harm is occurring.
I have never tried LSD, but knowing of its effects I'd reckon it is not something a person would consume once or twice a week.
Of course there is always the odd one.
In fairness I have never met anyone who has taken it.
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FairytaleGirl, I see you thanking posts.......... but even though I have put direct queries to you, no reply.......
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I'm with you, that's how I think this graph was drawn up. I don't think it has much relevance on us as Individuals. I would say it's not indicative of each drugs level of harm or risk for an individual.

Bafucin

budzer wrote: »

With yet another major factory found in Donegal valued at €1m+, isn't it time the irish government think about how much money they could revenue each year by regulating it. After all the only people that are making money from it are the low life criminals who are on the DOLE and live the lavish lifestyle.

The government will never ever win the war against cannabis anywhere in the world, simply because its a form of medicine and serves a lot of medicinal relief. Just cannot get my head around how its ok to regulate alcohol and cigarettes and yet they are doing a heck of a lot more damage to ourselves and with the booze its simply damaging or society.

Picture this....

Legalize Cannabis so patients have a safe source of medicine

Legalize Cannabis and do away with alcohol = Less Garda needed at weekends to stop all the fighting after clubs and pubs

Legalize Cannabis to stop funding the criminals

Legalize Cannabis for another source to fund bail out

Legalize Cannabis and we would see an increase of tourists.

Legalize Cannabis to stop the criminals stealing electricity from the grid.


Realistically if it's done properly, there would be no downside to it.




If anyone wishes to talk more then please contact me goodweed at live dot ie

Don't mind if I do! :-D