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Cannabis

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    #92
    Bigdeadlydave
    Closed Accounts Posts: 611 ✭✭✭Bigdeadlydave


    mikom wrote: »
    Would you like to offer a view on this?
    I think if you don't buy it off criminals, ie grow it yourself for personal use and dont sell it, its ok but I wouldnt do it myself or encourage others to do so, the opposite in fact

    But I think people and society would be better off if no one drank or did drugs so I think drug and drink consumption should be discouraged as much as possible


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    #93
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    MadsL wrote: »
    Win. Lol. Ask WA, CO, and RI in the US and Portugal and the Czech Republic how they won that war.

    LOL


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    #94
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Bigdeadlydave wrote: »

    But I think people and society would be better off if no one drank or did drugs so I think drug and drink consumption should be discouraged as much as possible

    Music, writing, and most creative avenues would disagree.

    *Charles Dickens, John Keats,The Beatles, Steve jobs, Charles Bukowski, and Carl Sagan shuffle uncomfortably.

    But, then again, some people like robots.....


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    #95
    EvanCornwallis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 201 ✭✭EvanCornwallis


    Don't smoke anything , simply just not into it. Enjoy a few drinks and that does me. Some people would slate me for putting poison in my body , so I can't really go and slag off drug users.


    Don't know all he facts , because don't overly care. I Know people that smoke and have become addicted and had some serious run ins with scumbags and family lives ruined.

    I also know people that smoke it and get up for work at 6am every morning. Same with drink , some people clearly can't handle the stuff, others it isn't a problem.

    I would make legal all drugs and let adults put in their bodies what every they like. Main reason I think this is because , anybody that wants to do drugs already does. Buying drugs is like picking up milk and bread.

    When I was young and naive , I thought only junkie kids did drugs. When I grew up and seen its a regular thing among all class of people of all ages , I was shocked . Now im shocked when people say hey don't do drugs.

    HSE workers , Gardai , Revenue Officers all professions I know people that smoke weed and do cocaine.

    War on drugs was lost before it began , but governments around the world knew that anyway.


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    #96
    Sleepy
    Registered Users Posts: 24,167 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    Hand on heart, I'm about to roll one after this post.

    It's no different a vice than alcohol. That we try to criminalise any drug is senseless imo. Society shouldn't be expected to bare the brunt of one's personal choices though so we'd either need to ensure the duty on each drug would cover the cost of it's impact on society (health system, welfare system for drugs likely to make you unable to hold down a job etc) but honestly I can't imagine most prices would fall that much since the difference between cost of production and "retail" price currently includes the risk premium for breaking the law. Obviously home-growing of drugs like cannabis would potentially slip under such a radar but most people would rather just pay €20 for a pack of Marlboro green that go to the effort of growing their own.


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    #97
    MadsL
    Registered Users Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    LOL

    Care to explain your comment then? What would it take to win in Ireland? And given a widespread trend towards decriminalisation and legalisation, why would you want to "win" such a "war"?


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    #98
    Defiler Of The Coffin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,117 ✭✭✭Defiler Of The Coffin


    Why are some people on this thread in favour of being able to legally enjoy a few beers whilst at the same time are against the legalisation of a less harmful substance? It doesn't make any sense


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    #99
    charlemont
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,725 ✭✭✭charlemont


    Bigdeadlydave wrote: »
    As a young man myself I have personal responsibility.... sheer stupidity to have the stuff if you plan to go to america or the like. They can hardly feel hard done by when everyone knows the risks.

    And lets be realistic, how many people get convictions for having a "spliff or two"? Even so you can deny having convictions because there is no way for the yanks to find out you have a criminal record because the Irish govt cannot release that info.

    A hell of a lot of people. If you are unlucky enough to be caught in a rural area and if you keep your mouth shut then your going to court no matter how small the nodge is..


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    #100
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    MadsL wrote: »
    Care to explain your comment then? What would it take to win in Ireland? And given a widespread trend towards decriminalisation and legalisation, why would you want to "win" such a "war"?

    OP made it seem like drumming up support for an international revolution. I was merely pointing out any actions taken part, would be of a domestic sort.


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    #101
    dimcoin
    Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭dimcoin


    Prop Joe wrote: »
    Well the criminals are making money from Prostitution so we should legalise that also,And Human Trafficking and Heroin and stealing cars and tiger kidnapping and extortion and think if all these thing's were legal,The Gardaí would have plenty time to go after real criminals.:rolleyes:

    Comparing heroin use to marijuana use is outrageous.


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    #102
    MrVestek
    Registered Users Posts: 9,198 ✭✭✭MrVestek


    Prop Joe wrote: »
    Well the criminals are making money from Prostitution so we should legalise that also

    No need to legalise something that isn't actually illegal in this country...


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    #103
    DrAngry
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭DrAngry


    Gurgle wrote: »
    Smoking cannabis is a victimless crime.

    See it's not really.


    Firstly because it produces so many waste of space human trash bags - which I accept is personal evidence but I've plenty of it - which are then funded through taxes. Secondly because the link between it's abuse and mental health problems becomes more obvious (in medical journals not tabloids) daily which, again, is costly in every way to a country.

    It's a pretty selfish act really.

    The obvious argument is always "WHAT ABOUT ALCOHOL!!11!" but there would a riot if that was pushed out of the country and, either way, it's not an argument for having another dangerous drug on the market.

    Better to legalise and control it for sure but best to get rid of it which could be done through minimum sentencing, more drug testing from employers.


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    #104
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    DrAngry wrote: »


    Firstly because it produces so many waste of space human trash bags - which I accept is personal evidence but I've plenty of it - which are then funded through taxes. Secondly because the link between it's abuse and mental health problems becomes more obvious (in medical journals not tabloids) daily which, again, is costly in every way to a country. .

    You'll have no problem linking to one of these studies so.
    I want to see a causation not a correlation......... by the way.

    Oh, and on the subject of being costly to the country....... have you seen Colorado's crime stats post legalisation........
    Three months following Colorado's decision to legalize the production, sale, possession and use of recreational marijuana — a vote that Denver city officials including Mayor Michael Hancock, among others, fought kicking and screaming — guess what's happened to Denver crime rates in 2014?

    According to new data, they've fallen across the board. Property crime is down 14.6% compared to the same period in 2013. Violent crimes are down 2.4%.
    http://www.policymic.com/articles/87383/3-months-later-here-s-what-denver-looks-like-since-legalizing-marijuana

    Oh, and $6 million in new tax revenue already in state coffers through February alone.
    .
    .
    .


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    #105
    DrAngry
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭DrAngry


    Less drugs for dealers to deal and Cannabis use not being a crime anymore obviously means less crime. Could eliminate crime overnight if nothing was illegal.

    Your evidence is correlation so I can't really apply causation to it. Less drug dealers probably reduces violent crime and maybe less drug dealers decreases home invasions but what else is reasonable evidence there? Would it be reasonable to say that legalisation of Cannabis is the reason for the increase in arson. Of course it wouldn't.

    I feel I may have missed your point. My apologies if that's the case.

    The figure of 6 million doesn't mean too much to me unless you can put a figure on the cost on the health or whatever other services that have been, or will be, bothered by it. Much like cigarettes I would be shocked if that's "making money". To quote myself "Better to legalise and control it for sure but best to get rid of it ".


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    #106
    dimcoin
    Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭dimcoin


    DrAngry wrote: »
    See it's not really.


    Firstly because it produces so many waste of space human trash bags - which I accept is personal evidence but I've plenty of it - which are then funded through taxes. Secondly because the link between it's abuse and mental health problems becomes more obvious (in medical journals not tabloids) daily which, again, is costly in every way to a country.

    It's a pretty selfish act really.

    The obvious argument is always "WHAT ABOUT ALCOHOL!!11!" but there would a riot if that was pushed out of the country and, either way, it's not an argument for having another dangerous drug on the market.

    Better to legalise and control it for sure but best to get rid of it which could be done through minimum sentencing, more drug testing from employers.



    Are you an angry old woman from 1930's era Alabama? Just because someone chooses to recreationally use tobacco, alcohol OR CANNABIS does not make that person "human trash". There are a few people who will abuse whatever(beer, cannabis) and be a burden to tax payers, that is NOT nearly the majority of cannabis users. I live in Washington state and see the benefits of legalization daily. The police are more free to focus on real crime, the tax revenue we make will go towards education(which is hurting atm in the U.S.A.) and peoples lives are not being ruined for smoking a plant that is less harmful than alcohol.

    They have been trying to get rid of Cannabis(THE DEVILS LETTUCE!) for more then 80 years, its not going to happen. Instead what happens is people are often punished when they are using Cannabis as a medicine. Being a veteran of the US Armed forces I can tell you that Cannabis helps many veterans with mental health issues after deployment as well as for pain management. Imagine a medicine that you won't get addicted to, that you can grow yourself and has never killed anyone.(you CANT overdose on it).

    Also, stop saying that cannabis is a dangerous drug. it is not. Alcohol poses far more danger then cannabis. Both for society and your health.

    I used to be against marijuana legalization myself, but then I decided to get my own information and make my own judgement. Please do this for yourself as well. Hell, go buy some organically grown Cannabis and try it for yourself!(I recommend getting it from a store that grows organically so you know that you are getting only marijuana and no extra pesticides or junk)

    Edit:Had to fix a word.


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    #107
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    DrAngry wrote: »
    Less drugs for dealers to deal and Cannabis use not being a crime anymore obviously means less crime. Could eliminate crime overnight if nothing was illegal.

    We could increase crime overnight if the sale of condoms was a crime........... oh wait, it once was............ as was homosexual acts.......... as was suicide.

    Keep things illegal for the betterment of the Irish people........ ah yeah.
    Nothing helps a normally law abiding person on in life like a criminal record based on a horseshit law
    DrAngry wrote: »
    Your evidence is correlation so I can't really apply causation to it. Less drug dealers probably reduces violent crime and maybe less drug dealers decreases home invasions but what else is reasonable evidence there? Would it be reasonable to say that legalisation of Cannabis is the reason for the increase in arson. Of course it wouldn't.

    This is why I posted that snippet.
    Good and all news that it looks, it is simply correlation not causation.
    I was riffing on that as a bookend to my request for causation proving studies off you regarding mental health problems.

    To get you started here is a recent study........ http://www.ukcia.org/research/keele_study/Assessing-the-impact-of-cannabis.pdf

    Assessing the impact of cannabis use on trends in diagnosed schizophrenia in the United Kingdom from 1996 to 2005.
    Conducted by...
    Martin Frisher. Department of Medicines Management, Keele University, Staffordshire, ST5 5BG, United Kingdom.
    Ilana Crome. Academic Psychiatry Unit, Keele University Medical School, Harplands Hospital, Hilton Road, Staffordshire, ST6 4TH, United Kingdom
    Orsolina Martino. Department of Medicines Management, Keele University, Staffordshire, ST5 5BG, United Kingdom.
    Peter Croft. Primary Care Sciences Research Centre, Keele University, Staffordshire, ST5 5BG, United Kingdom

    Findings below.........
    British investigators at Keele University Medical School compared trends in cannabis use and instances of schizophrenia in the United Kingdom from 1996 to 2005.

    The research showed that even as marijuana use soared among the general population, “incidence and prevalence of schizophrenia and psychoses were either stable or declining” during this period.

    The authors concluded that an expected rise in diagnoses of schizophrenia and psychoses did not occur over the decade under study. “This study does not therefore support the … link between cannabis use and incidence of psychotic disorders,” the study concludes, adding “This concurs with other reports indicating that increases in population cannabis use have not been followed by increases in psychotic incidence.”
    DrAngry wrote: »
    The figure of 6 million doesn't mean too much to me unless you can put a figure on the cost on the health or whatever other services that have been, or will be, bothered by it. Much like cigarettes I would be shocked if that's "making money". To quote myself "Better to legalise and control it for sure but best to get rid of it ".

    Please do not equate cannabis to the harm that cigarettes cause, as they are in no where the same league.
    The tax take of 6 million (for one month) still stands, along with all the freeing up of the police and court systems time.
    Some serious saving.
    Expect it to be copied by other states hungry for the tax take.
    .
    .
    .


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    #108
    DrAngry
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭DrAngry


    dimcoin wrote: »
    Are you an angry old woman from 1930's era Alabama? .

    I mean, maybe just a little.

    Well it's dangerous in my terms: http://scholar.google.com/scholar?start=0&q=cannabis+and+mental+health&hl=en&as_sdt=0,5&as_vis=1

    I never said everyone who smokes turns into a human trash bag but, in my experience, plenty do.

    I also never said alcohol was better for society. Just said that nothing can be done about that now in Ireland and I believe something can be done about cannabis. It is different, I accept, in the states.

    Pain management is a separate issue from this one.

    "my own judgement. Please do this for yourself as well". This is what I have done.


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    #109
    Pawwed Rig
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 22,321 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    dimcoin wrote: »
    Are you an angry old woman from 1930's era Alabama?

    Mod note - dimcoin, welcome to boards. Please familiarise yourself with TGC charter before posting and keep discussion on topic rather than personalising.


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    #110
    dimcoin
    Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭dimcoin


    Pawwed Rig wrote: »

    Mod note - dimcoin, welcome to boards. Please familiarise yourself with TGC charter before posting and keep discussion on topic rather than personalising.


    Will do that. Thanks.


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    #111
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    DrAngry wrote: »
    I never said everyone who smokes turns into a human trash bag but, in my experience, plenty do.

    I think your anecdote - which is all the above is (unverifiable anecdote at that) - likely says more about the quality of company you keep rather than about cannabis - cannabis use - or cannabis users - as a subject. I certainly would not extrapolate your anecdote into a generalisation on the subject - as yours does not match mine in any way.


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    #112
    InTheTrees
    Registered Users Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    "DrAngry wrote: »
    I also never said alcohol was better for society. Just said that nothing can be done about that now in Ireland

    You don't see any value in a safe and harmless alternative then?

    You've just given up because "nothing can be done"?

    ???


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    #113
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,120 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    eh sure lads, no need to be worried about getting caught, just point at a random Asian guy if arrested and the Gardaí will make sure they do the time not you.


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    #114
    MrVestek
    Registered Users Posts: 9,198 ✭✭✭MrVestek


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    eh sure lads, no need to be worried about getting caught, just point at a random Asian guy if arrested and the Gardaí will make sure they do the time not you.

    Wow... Just. Wow.


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    #115
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,120 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    MrVestek wrote: »
    Wow... Just. Wow.

    So it was you that reported me. Wow man that's heavy.

    Anyway, we are kinda taking the bejazus out of the Asians, used to be the black fellas at the top of Parnell street you could blame now just point at the local lucky dragon http://www.thejournal.ie/imprisoning-slavery-victims-1389053-Mar2014/


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    #116
    Pawwed Rig
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 22,321 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    Mod note - drunkmonkey is having a week off. Please do not respond to his posts.


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    #117
    MrVestek
    Registered Users Posts: 9,198 ✭✭✭MrVestek


    Anyway let's get back on track.

    I really think they need to legalise cannabis at this stage as it's clearly working so well for states like Colorado etc.


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    #118
    Boskowski
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,361 ✭✭✭Boskowski


    I think the only reason why its actually not being legalised right now is inertia in society.
    There has been so much misinformation and miseducation over decades for god knows what reason that its simply not easy to overturn the general public opinion. If politicians found out today they'd win more votes than they would lose on the cannabis question legalisation would be on their pamphlets by Monday.
    I think legalisation is definitely on the cards in the medium or long term future but Ireland will be probably one of the last places to do it for it is a very conservative country.

    Personally I think cannabis is not as free of dangers as some will make us believe it but it is far less dangerous in every aspect than for example alcohol. I find that discrepancy so great that this kind of whataboutery is somewhat legitimate in this case.


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    #119
    dimcoin
    Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭dimcoin


    Boskowski wrote: »
    Ireland will be probably one of the last places to do it for it is a very conservative country.


    What are the police's view on cannabis? Is it often that if caught the cops will let you go or they will outright ignore you smoking in public and just turn away?


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    #120
    anotherfinemess
    Registered Users Posts: 124 ✭✭anotherfinemess


    Cannabis isn't a drug, it's a plant. It's a very bad plant. All plants should be made illegal, especially cabbages, then the Gardai can get lots of easy brownie points raiding supermarkets.


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    #121
    Boskowski
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,361 ✭✭✭Boskowski


    dimcoin wrote: »
    What are the police's view on cannabis? Is it often that if caught the cops will let you go or they will outright ignore you smoking in public and just turn away?

    Not in Ireland. Even the minutest amounts are often prosecuted with full force and anything bigger than personal use is being reported on in the media often with largely inflated 'street values'. Kick someone into a wheelchair in a drunken rage and you're likely to get off lighter than if caught with a dozen cannabis plants in your house.


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