Windows 8 Launch Discussion

djimi

Fysh wrote: »

I would most definitely say try before you buy; if you're on a non-touch interface there's no way to say whether you'll love it or hate it. Personally I find it pointless over Win7 for my usage pattern and requirements (and I'm unwilling to change either without a better reason than "MS want a common UI across their phone and computer offerings"). Others on here have been very impressed by it.

Whatever you do, don't commit yourself to the upgrade without having a rollback plan in case you don't like it (ie full system snapshot before upgrading and check you can recover to it if you decide you need to ditch Win8).

Definately try first. Windows 8 is a good OS for touchscreen devices but the Metro interface is horrendous on a regular laptop/PC using a mouse/keyboard (in my opinion). Also the desktop without a Start menu is very annoying to use. For a non-touchscreen device Windows 8 is a huge step backwards in intuitiveness comapred to XP/Vista/Windows 7. I dont even think its the kind of thing that you get used to in time; it just feels like they have shoehorned a touchscreen OS onto non-touchscreen devices.

vard

Can I get the upgrade price if I install on a new computer but use the windows 7 I'd from a different computer?

Torqay

vard wrote: »

Can I get the upgrade price if I install on a new computer but use the windows 7 I'd from a different computer?

In a word, no.

Unless Windows 7 on the "different computer" is a retail version. Of course you will have to uninstall Windows 7 from that computer then.

Polar101

Microsoft seems to want people to buy the upgrade version. I have a Vista licence, but I currently have Windows 7 Enterprise Trial installed - can I use Windows 8 upgrade or do I need the full version instead? I don't mind formatting the HD and so on. If I need to have Vista installed, then I would probably prefer to get the full version.

Torqay

Polar101 wrote: »

Microsoft seems to want people to buy the upgrade version. I have a Vista licence, but I currently have Windows 7 Enterprise Trial installed - can I use Windows 8 upgrade or do I need the full version instead? I don't mind formatting the HD and so on. If I need to have Vista installed, then I would probably prefer to get the full version.

You can only upgrade from a full license which you own and this version must be installed.

If you want to upgrade from Vista (any version), Windows 8 is the only edition available to you. Pro and Enterprise are not an option.

If you purchase a Windows 7 Enterprise license, you can upgrade to Windows 8 Enterprise only, all other editions are locked out from this upgrade path

Torqay

Overheal wrote: »

Its the improvements on search that have me sold.

Windows Search has always been a nuisance. 3rd party software is much more advanced in any respect.

For SSDs I much prefer non-index search, prolongs the SSD lifetime and thanks to insane access times there isn't much delay.

What puts me really off is not Modern UI but the new kill switch which nobody seems to care about since they're busy debating the pros and cons of the new tiled user interface. However, with Windows 8 Microsoft can now remotely disable and even delete software on your computer, "in cases where your security is at risk, or where we're required to do so for legal reasons". But hey, it's all for your own good and if you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to fear, right?

Fysh

Torqay wrote: »

You can only upgrade from a full license which you own and this version must be installed.

If you want to upgrade from Vista (any version), Windows 8 is the only edition available to you. Pro and Enterprise are not an option.

If you purchase a Windows 7 Enterprise license, you can upgrade to Windows 8 Enterprise only, all other editions are locked out from this upgrade path

This is not true in a strictly technical sense. There's licensing based silliness about this, but Microsoft have in the past acknowledged that they are more concerned with licences being valid than anything else, so if you eg have a licence for Win7 and are upgrading to 8, you can use the double-install trick (clean install from Win8 media, don't activate, reboot, then start an in-place upgrade using the Win8 media, finish & reboot, then activate) and it will work.

As ever, being technically feasible doesn't guarantee also being allowed under the terms of the licence, but I really don't see the point of enforcing the inheritance of Crap Migration Syndrome on folks by making them do an in-place upgrade if they don't want to. It'd be a different story if MS could make the in-place upgrade run even 1/10 as smoothly as the equivalent process tends to be under OS X, but we might as well wish for unicorn rides for all the chances that'll happen any time soon...

Also, wasn't Enterprise only available to Volume Licence customers? So the restricted upgrade path isn't so much of a problem.

Torqay

I know there are ways around but I thought this was frowned upon here as there may be legal issues involved.

chrislad

Installing Windows 8 Pro at the moment. A bargain at 15quid, which PC World are going to refund me, so zero cost! I'm hoping the one good, one bad rule of Microsoft OSs doesn't hold true though!

Sparks43

Windows 8 is being released in 45 mins time.

Word of advice to anyone thinking about buying it or upgrading from 7

DONT!!!!!!!!!

It is without doubt the biggest piece of **** MS have ever released much worse then Vista.

I have been hands on with it and it has very few redeeming features.

Stick with 7 for the time being and if you really want a new OS then look into Linux (great and free)

8 Will not last more then a year and this is the end of microsofts dominance.

They will not be missed

djimi

Windows 8 will be great on touchscreen devices but it will bomb seriously on regular laptops/PCs. Microsoft are making a huge mistake with this one; on a regular machine is a huge step back from Windows 7 and I have no idea why they think they need to try and shoehorn the one OS onto two very different platforms.

On touchscreen devices though (which it is completely designed for) I can see it doing fantastically well.

andrewdeerpark

I have just installed Windows 8 on my main PC. Installed without fuss from the download. Did not format and install or perform a backup.

Running nicely, initial impressions is its really responsive and if you have a windows Hotmail / live / xbox account ties in well with the OS with mail, contacts and settings.

Initial impressions are good.

ffocused

anyone waiting for an upgrade email for a recently purchased pc just enter your reciept number & email on windowsupgradeoffer.com to get your discount code now & away you go. I am downloading it now.

Moon54

Yep, I bought it as well,
I figured at the cheap €30 upgrade price that it would be worth buying.

I used the 'create ISO' method and have it burned to disc with my product code printed on it and ready to go.

I've tried the previous beta builds and it still hasn't completely convinced me that it's great....
but it was a lot more manageable after I installed the ClassicShell free software.

Overheal

Sparks43 wrote: »

Windows 8 is being released in 45 mins time.

Word of advice to anyone thinking about buying it or upgrading from 7

DONT!!!!!!!!!

It is without doubt the biggest piece of **** MS have ever released much worse then Vista.

I have been hands on with it and it has very few redeeming features.

Stick with 7 for the time being and if you really want a new OS then look into Linux (great and free)

8 Will not last more then a year and this is the end of microsofts dominance.

They will not be missed

Im curious as to what about it you found to be "worse than Vista."

I mean I can very easily point out a lot of the challenges the Vista launch faced. They were indeed horrendous. I don't see any of the same mistakes being made here however. Care to enlighten?

_Kaiser_

Overheal wrote: »

Im curious as to what about it you found to be "worse than Vista."

I mean I can very easily point out a lot of the challenges the Vista launch faced. They were indeed horrendous. I don't see any of the same mistakes being made here however. Care to enlighten?

Ah I'm sure I can guess...

- No start menu in the Desktop "app" :rolleyes:
- Desktop UI that harks back to Windows 3.1 with the flat washed out 2D look
- Uneasy marriage of the traditional Desktop and the "Modern" interface
- Reduced functionality - even shutting down is a chore

These are all fair points.

Now yes, all of those can be addressed with Classic Shell, Start8 etc - but it shouldn't be necessary to resort to 3rd party utilities to get essential functionality back.
There was no need to strip all that out.. just have an option on first boot: "do you want to use the Modern or Classic UI?" I'd be fine with Modern being the default but as long as I could easily (and completely) turn it off if needed.

On a tablet or Surface I'm sure this will work well - IF the price of the latter doesn't put people off when comparing it against the established Apple and Android alternatives, IF they get the Marketplace in order, IF the aforementioned functionality issues don't kill it in its infancy etc

I can't see the majority of people rushing out to spend hundreds on new touch-capable PCs and laptops (which is where Windows has its biggest share) just to run this stripped out Windows Phone wannabe OS. Enterprises will skip it entirely (seeing as many have only just finished upgrading to Win 7).

And yes, I've played with the RTM a fair bit in the last month or two but I can't see any worthwhile reason to go for this over Win 7 on a standard PC or laptop, and while it makes more sense on a tablet I would not be surprised if we've all forgotten about Surface next year as it's relegated to a distant third.. in the same way as Win Phone 7 hasn't made any serious inroads in its lifespan either.

But it's interesting times ahead alright. Will the gamble pay off?

djimi

Overheal wrote: »

Im curious as to what about it you found to be "worse than Vista."

I mean I can very easily point out a lot of the challenges the Vista launch faced. They were indeed horrendous. I don't see any of the same mistakes being made here however. Care to enlighten?

The issues I found with Windows 8 are different to those that existed in Vista at launch, but are no less frustrating. I used Windows 8 for over 6 months on my laptop and at no point did I get used to the Metro interface/lack of start menu. Its just plain unintuitive and doesnt make any sense on a regular laptop/PC. Using it felt very much like the old Windows Mobile OSs; that feeling of using an OS that does not seem to be properly designed for the platform that it is running on.

The general performance of Windows 8 is good; overall it felt quick and performed well even on my Samsung NC10. But I dont think that is going to matter when all is said and done; I fear too many people will take one look at it and run a mile, and I dont see any corporates touching it with a bargepole.

Torqay

Overheal wrote: »

Im curious as to what about it you found to be "worse than Vista."

At least with Vista the kill switch stopped at the operating system (WGA), in Windows 8 Microsoft can now remotely disable or delete any software or content on your computer as they see fit (maybe you should read the Terms of Use before agreeing to them).

Diddy Kong

Torqay wrote: »

At least with Vista the kill switch stopped at the operating system (WGA), in Windows 8 Microsoft can now remotely disable or delete any software or content on your computer as they see fit (maybe you should read the Terms of Use before agreeing to them).

I dont see the issue with this! Apple and Google both have these kill switches available to them to remove apps.

Here is the extract from the Windows Store T&C:

Can Microsoft remove apps or data from my device?
We may change or discontinue certain apps or content offered in the Windows Store at any time, for any reason. Sometimes, we do so to respond to legal or contractual requirements. In cases where your security is at risk, or where we’re required to do so for legal reasons, you may not be able to use apps or access content that you previously acquired or bought a license for. In cases where we remove a paid app from your Windows 8 device not at your direction, we may refund to you the amount you paid for the license. Some apps might also stop working if you update or change your Windows 8 device, or if you try to use those apps on a Windows 8 device with different features or processor type. You're responsible for backing up the data that you store in apps that you acquire via the Windows Store, including content you upload using those apps. If the Windows Store, an app, or any content is changed or discontinued, your data could be deleted or you might not be able to retrieve data you have stored. We have no obligation to return data to you. If sign in information or other data is stored with an expiration date, we may also delete the data as of that date.

For those interested, link to Google first using the kill switch to remove apps from devices.

Personally I have been using Windows 8 for the past two months as my main machine and love it. Very quick to boot, I actually use the Metro Start quite a bit (I also have a WP7 device, so it helps) and the only "hack" I did was to include the shutdown/restart options in the right click on desktop.

homer911

djimi wrote: »

I dont see any corporates touching it with a bargepole.

I was talking to our IT Infrastructure Manager the other day who said that all our laptops would be replaced with Windows Surface Tablets in the short to medium term - glad I dont use a laptop...

stevenmu

Nimrod 7 wrote: »

But I'm still confused as to how professionals and companies will react to it. Will they make the switch to Windows 8 and Server 2012?

In general, most of their large professional/enterprise customers only migrate to every second version, if even that. Also, a lot of them always stay at least one version behind, I know one large Irish bank for e.g. has been waiting until Windows 8 was released to begin rolling out Windows 7.

I think that Windows 7 was such a success in that regard, with many either migrating to it or having plans to do so, that Windows 8 was never really going big for enterprise customers, even if Steve Jobs himself came back from the dead to endorse it. No matter how good Windows 8 is, it's simply out of cycle for too many people.

I suspect Microsoft knew this, and they timed the drastic changes to coincide. They get to go nuts with Windows 8 and introduce major change, then they can have all of the kinks worked out in time for Windows 9 when the enterprise customers will be ready to upgrade again.

I think it will make some inroads where people want tablets or other touch form factors for specific purposes, but I don't think it was ever going to be rolled out to desktops en masse.

Torqay wrote: »

You can't just install any software, everything must be purchased/obtained through Microsoft's app store... the nightmare for sysadmins.

Enterprises will be able to set up their own in-house app stores. There will also be provisions through the main app store for developers writing bespoke software for customers. Windows RT is also manageable to some degree using the standard management tools that enterprises use for managing their desktops.

It's not enough yet for RT devices to replace corporate desktops/laptops, but it should give them an advantage over iPads and Android tablets anyway.

Francie Barrett

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

- No start menu in the Desktop "app" :rolleyes:

Windows+Q will give you a screen with all your installed applications.

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

- Desktop UI that harks back to Windows 3.1 with the flat washed out 2D look

I don't quite get that. The Desktop UI looks no different to Windows 7 - no?

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

- Uneasy marriage of the traditional Desktop and the "Modern" interface

I agree with you on this one. I can only imagine that traditional desktop mode was included as a sop to people upgrading from older versions of Windows. Personally, I think it shouldn't have been included at all. Once you get the hang of the Modern UI, you won't use the classic mode at all. At least I didn't.

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

- Reduced functionality - even shutting down is a chore

Shutting down is no slower than before if you just hit Ctrl+Alt+Delete.

Landoflemon

I hope this is the right place to ask for advice, but for the last nearly 2 months I've been running the enterprise evaluation of Windows 8. You cannot upgrade to full Windows 8 from the enterprise evaluation but I have real that you can from the release preview. Does anybody know if the release preview can still be installed to then take the cheaper route of upgrading to windows 8 rather than paying full price?

I hope my question makes sense.

Francie Barrett

My thoughts. I actually think that Windows 8 is an improvement over all previous versions of Windows, once you get the hang of it and once you have it tweaked.

Live tiles are definitely an improvement over classic icons. The fact that they are easier to layout, display notifications and just look more aesthetically pleasing are all major positives. Use them for a week, and you will wonder why it took so long for Windows to migrate. What's also really nice is the ability to sync your OS preferences across multiple devices. I was able to log into two machines and essentially have my desktop preferences replicated across both machines, very handy.

Annoyances, well, there are a few. Firstly, By default, Windows 8 can be quite sluggish, even on great hardware. What I found is that you need to disable all these transition and animation effects that are displayed when running/closing/switching apps. Secondly, using the OS for the first couple of times on a non-touch device is strange, ie using a mouse to draw applications to the bottom of the screen to close them, moving to corners to activate certain dialogs, etc. I don't think it's any worse than before, it's just different and needs getting used to.

Torqay

Diddy Kong wrote: »

kill switches available to them to remove apps.

Not only software but also content is subject to deletion at Microsoft's discretion - whether you have purchased it through Windows Store (now a component of Microsoft Windows which can't be removed) or "acquired" it elsewhere - if "required to do so for legal reasons".

Who are these people now? Judge, jury and executioner?

Diddy Kong wrote: »

Apple and Google both have these kill switches

It's not just them, Amazon pulled this stunt only last week.

Diddy Kong wrote: »

I dont see the issue with this!

If you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to fear, right? Wrong!

giftgrub

I've had a play with Windows 8 on a Dell XPS12 today

I dont know anything about the guts of the OS, but i found it easy to use (maybe because I'm already on Windows phone)

The search feature is good, just start typing and it brings up your options, its good for Social apps as well.

My own impressions after about 10 minutes.
The ability to kind of split the screen seems handy, the screen swipe was very responsive

Overheal

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Ah I'm sure I can guess...

- No start menu in the Desktop "app" :rolleyes:
- Desktop UI that harks back to Windows 3.1 with the flat washed out 2D look
- Uneasy marriage of the traditional Desktop and the "Modern" interface
- Reduced functionality - even shutting down is a chore

-The Start menu is still in the same location on the desktop, accessing it just takes you to the start screen. Only big difference there.
-Amusing anecdote when people complained that Aero took up too many PC resources to run. I think you ought to run XP in "classic view" and see just how crazy this sounds.
-Whats your solution? Other than "Keep the same UI thats been around for 20 years"-things have to change eventually.
-Win+C will help you access the charm sidebar faster. If you fancy you can also http://blog.laptopmag.com/how-to-shutdown-windows-8-in-just-one-click

I can't see the majority of people rushing out to spend hundreds on new touch-capable PCs and laptops (which is where Windows has its biggest share) just to run this stripped out Windows Phone wannabe OS. Enterprises will skip it entirely (seeing as many have only just finished upgrading to Win 7).

I think you underestimate people and their reasons for buying. People buy new PCs every day, and the things they want to do with their PCs are regularly changing. Consumers have been anticipating the change in touch for a couple years now: I will regularly catch customers trying to rub their hands over a laptop screen expectant that it will respond to them. Thats been going on for quite a while. Now there are laptops that do that. If the pricing is uniform, you should be seeing touch laptops for the same price as previous laptops for the same performance as the previous generation (sometimes even with better performance, as these laptops are coming out with the same configuration, but the newer 4th Gen fusion APUs/Ivy Bridge processors).

Oh, and last night I took the first Touch Screen desktop monitor off the truck and put it on the shelf.

And yes, I've played with the RTM a fair bit in the last month or two but I can't see any worthwhile reason to go for this over Win 7 on a standard PC or laptop, and while it makes more sense on a tablet I would not be surprised if we've all forgotten about Surface next year as it's relegated to a distant third.. in the same way as Win Phone 7 hasn't made any serious inroads in its lifespan either.

The phone market is another story altogether, and this launch will not go the way of the WebOS Touchpad. Unlike HP, MSFT is an established operating system developer. Blackberry died because it didn't even have a native mail client -you had to own a blackberry phone, and it ha to be within the immediate proximity in order to access email.

HP also suffered from lack of developer support, something MSFT doesn't have the same problem with. It will have about the same number of apps at launch that Google Android began with, with the added benefit of thousands of developers signed up to churn out apps for the store. In the meantime, that "uneasy marriage" of Desktop and Apps, means any deficiencies are filled in by regular x86 software.

Overheal

Torqay wrote: »

Not only software but also content is subject to deletion at Microsoft's discretion - whether you have purchased it through Windows Store (now a component of Microsoft Windows which can't be removed) or "acquired" it elsewhere - if "required to do so for legal reasons".

Who are these people now? Judge, jury and executioner?



It's not just them, Amazon pulled this stunt only last week.



If you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to fear, right? Wrong!

I'm betting a similar clause exists on Steam.

Not sure that it affects any regular desktop software that you install. Just "apps". And I can tell you exactly how many apps I've had deleted on me by Apple ever: zero.

Similarly, the POTUS has the given authority to launch nuclear ICBMs at any square inch of the planet. It doesn't imply that they will do so candidly. It's not as though MSFT is going to make use of this clause a lot just so it can troll people.

Torqay

Well, I for one do mind giving people authority to snoop around my computer and delete stuff as they see fit (which is exactly what you agree to when accepting Microsoft's Terms of Use in Windows 8). But maybe that's just me having issues with this practice.

And no, I certainly do not have Steam installed.

ykt0di9url7bc3

When I installed Windows XP for the first time and I set my 'start menu' to classic.
When I installed Vista x64 for the first time and I disabled the 'search indexer'.
When I installed Windows 7 x64 for the first time and I unpinned all the programs from the taskbar.

I have been using Windows 8 solely for the last two weeks and I have barely tweaked anything apart from Notifications and limiting certain Live Tiles.

Enterprises will skip it entirely

Certain Enterprises may skip it entirely, however there are many Enterprises that are using touchscreen systems and have been using them for a long time. In my usage Windows 8 gives a very seamless experience across its platforms and would be of benefit in many IT scenario/solutions.

As for the Vista bashing, for me Windows Vista was a triumph of reliability and redundancy, no longer was I re-installing the OS every 9-12 months, methods of OS rescue/repair were multiple and effective. The 64 bit OS gave a greater edge to my Video editing and Gaming. Imho Windows Vista was ahead of its time and OEMs bundled poor drivers, lacklustre performance, and annoying bundled Software. Windows 7 is little more than Vista refined, a process always moving forward.
Windows 8 is a very nice and fast Microsoft OS. When I hit my windows key, instead of a Start Menu, I get a Start Screen. This Start Screen has all the programs I installed ready for use (mostly in desktop mode). The Start Screen has a good photo viewer, MSN Live messneger access, and weather app that provides me with quick information\access.

Now if I can get the Goodreader, Air Video, and Splashtop apps for a MS Surface tablet I would seriously consider chucking the iPad 2.