Woman accuses three men of rape after drunken romp

py2006

Madam_X wrote: »

Yeh what she did is infinitely worse for sure - think it just raises people's heckles though because it contributes to the whole "us and them" thing, which this shouldn't be about.

One thing I have noticed on Boards over the years is that if a man insults a particular woman (for good reason), it seems to be taken that he is referring to all women or that a man shouldn't insult a woman full stop. Thus the thread is taken over by a few posters who twist it to the 'them v us' thing. That is just an observation of mine and not referring to anyone in particular.

ahnowbrowncow

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Could you please explain what you believe a feminist poster to be?

I suppose you expect me to say a woman who hates men but of course that is a misandrist.

To me a feminist is a woman who wants equality, even where equality isn't even possible. But of course there are plenty of feminists who see only female issues and are blinkered when it comes to issues of equality of the opposite sex.

Oh I now know they have an irrational dislike for the word slapper, it no doubt demeans them and is social conditioning that they would like to be rid of.

Millicent

Gauss wrote: »

Well if the punishment for rape matches the crime of rape then giving the punishment matches the crime of rape.

So accusing someone of theft should have the same punishment as theft?
Accusing someone of fraud should have the same punishment as fraud?
Accusing someone of drunk and disorderly should have the same punishment of drunk and disorderly?

Gauss

humbert wrote: »

Gauss wrote: »

But surely the punishment should fit the crime. If someone imprisoned another person
For
Ten years in their
Basement they should get ten years in prison.

Well she failed to get them sent to prison so does that mean she shouldn't go to prison at all?

Ah, it's silly over-simplified biblical style reasoning. Prison is primarily to protect society and to deter would-be criminals, not punishment.

The same punishment for attempted rape
Would be appropriate in this case.

Tombi!

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

I suppose you expect me to say a woman who hates men but of course that is a misandrist.

To me a feminist is a woman who wants equality, whether equality makes sense or is even possible. But of course there are plenty of feminists who see only female issues and are blinkered when it comes to issues of equality of the opposite sex.

Oh I now know they have an irrational dislike for the word slapper, it no doubt demeans them and is social conditioning that they would like to be rid of.

No I don't expect anything. So what do I fall under if I want eqaulity but am male?

dark crystal

Gauss wrote: »

She did a terrible thing did she. I find it curious that when "feminist" type posters criticise men I find they tend to say how evil he is etc and a scumbag. Whereas they criticise women by saying " no excuses, what she did was completely wrong".

Notice in the above quite how the woman's actions are being criticised and not the woman herself. It says a lot.


I can't imagine these posters saying " no excuses, what he did was wrong" after a man raped a woman.

It's like a slap on the wrist for a callous crime, these comments I'm reading show how some posters don't regard men to have feelings who can feel pain.

The woman in question isn't a rapist though, so the comparison isn't valid. Her actions have been rightly condemned throughout the thread by men and women.

Micky Dolenz

Car crash.

Making false accusations does not equal serious sexual assault so punishments will never be the same.

I accused a person falsely, of trying to kill me does not equate to me getting a sentence of attempted murder.

hatrickpatrick

Millicent wrote: »

There are statistics from various Rape Crisis Centres that bear out her post.

And how do they know that it was definitely rape and not a false accusation...?

Millicent

py2006 wrote: »

One thing I have noticed on Boards over the years is that if a man insults a particular woman (for good reason), it seems to be taken that he is referring to all women or that a man shouldn't insult a woman full stop. Thus the thread is taken over by a few posters who twist it to the 'them v us' thing. That is just an observation of mine and not referring to anyone in particular.

It does happen but it happens on the other side too. There are a few posts on this thread that are teeming with the subtle stuff that gets women's backs up. They are as much to blame as the posters who rise to the bait.

MrGeneric

Gauss wrote: »

But surely the punishment should fit the crime. If someone imprisoned another person
For
Ten years in their
Basement they should get ten years in prison.

And if someone gouges out a person's eye, the state should then gouge out the offender's eye in retaliation?

Applying that logic to the original crime, the woman should be accused of rape, not imprisoned for whatever length of time the men would have received.

Two years in prison and a destroyed reputation is not a light sentence, particularly for a crime which traditionally is never punished at all.

Gauss

Millicent wrote: »

Gauss wrote: »

Well if the punishment for rape matches the crime of rape then giving the punishment matches the crime of rape.

So accusing someone of theft should have the same punishment as theft?
Accusing someone of fraud should have the same punishment as fraud?
Accusing someone of drunk and disorderly should have the same punishment of drunk and disorderly?

Not accusing, callously knowingly falsely accusing. If you attempt to put someone behind bars for ten years don't cry
When you are put behind bars for
10 years as punishment.

Madam_X

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

I suppose you expect me to say a woman who hates men but of course that is a misandrist.

To me a feminist is a woman who wants equality, even where equality isn't even possible. But of course there are plenty of feminists who see only female issues and are blinkered when it comes to issues of equality of the opposite sex.

you and Gauss (the rape endorsing person) have no way of knowing whether most here are though - you're just assuming. I'm not, for one.

Millicent

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

And how do they know that it was definitely rape and not a false accusation...?

Because people don't tend to ring anonymously or seek counselling for false claims. That's largely where they collate the numbers from.

Duggy747

Absolutely detest these type of women, really scum of the earth thing to do.

So often we came across claims like these that turned out to be nothing but bullshìt.

A few lads and I were at girl's house after the pub where her on-off man called to the house and they had an argument, well..........shouting match in the sitting room in front of all of us. Was pretty damn awkward.

Next thing she turns to all of us and told us how he raped her frequently. Now, saying that to a room full of well-on-the-beer men sent the guy white as we all stared at him.

At this point, we had all heard the usual rape claims from girls who were known to make outrageous remarks for attention so nobody even moved or got the urge to suddenly punch or throw the guy out. It's bad when it's gotten to that sort of stage...

The girl's sister told her to cop on, their argument simmered down after 5 minutes and the girl apologised for making up the rape claim because she wanted to win the argument.

They now have 2 kids together.

The "he beats me" is another popular claim that gets frequently thrown around as an over-reaction. Boils my blood as it trivialises those who are actually victims of it and rape.

Ziphius

Does anyone have any reliable statistics on the frequency of falsely accused rapes (and other crimes)? I've tried to look this up but the numbers seem all over the place. Numbers from 2% to >40% have been reported.

According to the FBI "The “unfounded” rate, or percentage of complaints
determined through investigation to be false, is higher for forcible rape than for any other Index crime" (Citation page 24, paragraph 'Nature').

They go on to say the 8% of rape accusations are unfounded while the average is only 2%. The report, however, does not give the details on the "unfounded" rates of any other crimes.

hatrickpatrick

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

No I don't expect anything. So what do I fall under if I want eqaulity but am male?

I use the word 'equaliist' to be honest. A word which evokes one particular gender sparks the idea that you want equality where that gender is currently at a disadvantage, but aren't so pushed about levelling the playing field in terms of unfair privileges.
An equalitist believes that both genders should be treated equally at all ones by the law, including where that means giving up your own unfair advantages.

Millicent

Gauss wrote: »

Not accusing, callously knowingly falsely accusing. If you attempt to put someone behind bars for ten years don't cry
When you are put behind bars for
10 years as punishment.

That ignores the difficulties of coming forward for cases of sexual crime. Yes, this woman is vile and deserves to be punished but inflicting very severe sentencing on her will only discourage genuine cases from coming forward to report a crime that has low accusal and conviction rates.

Gauss

dark crystal wrote: »

Gauss wrote: »

She did a terrible thing did she. I find it curious that when "feminist" type posters criticise men I find they tend to say how evil he is etc and a scumbag. Whereas they criticise women by saying " no excuses, what she did was completely wrong".

Notice in the above quite how the woman's actions are being criticised and not the woman herself. It says a lot.


I can't imagine these posters saying " no excuses, what he did was wrong" after a man raped a woman.

It's like a slap on the wrist for a callous crime, these comments I'm reading show how some posters don't regard men to have feelings who can feel pain.

The woman in question isn't a rapist though, so the comparison isn't valid. Her actions have been rightly condemned throughout the thread by men and women.

The crime she committed was on a par with rape interns of how evil it is.

ahnowbrowncow

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

No I don't expect anything. So what do I fall under if I want eqaulity but am male?

If you want equality why don't you try be proactive for the male side for a change?

There are plenty of injustices and inequalities that men have to deal with but you seem happy to forget them. Both sides are both important but if we all become female sympathisers there will be no one to voice our concerns. I don't see too many feminists voicing their concerns about the male gender's problems.

Quorum

Gauss wrote: »

She did a terrible thing did she.

Yup. Sorry my wording doesn't meet your high standards.

hatrickpatrick

Millicent wrote: »

So accusing someone of theft should have the same punishment as theft?
Accusing someone of fraud should have the same punishment as fraud?
Accusing someone of drunk and disorderly should have the same punishment of drunk and disorderly?

The problem with this comparison is that rarely does anyone claim that most acquittals should not have been acquittals. Even in this thread you have people suggesting that an acquittal for rape does not make a man innocent.
The stigma can follow him for the rest of his life, far more severely than an accusation of drunk and disorderly or theft.

Millicent

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

If you want equality why don't you try be proactive for the male side for a change?

There are plenty of injustices and inequalities that men have to deal with but you seem happy to forget them. Both sides are both important but if we all become female sympathisers there will be no one to voice our concerns.

Brutal Deluxe has posted on threads about sex crimes where men were the victim with sympathy for the male victim. I think you're being unfair here.

Gauss

Millicent wrote: »

Gauss wrote: »

Not accusing, callously knowingly falsely accusing. If you attempt to put someone behind bars for ten years don't cry
When you are put behind bars for
10 years as punishment.

That ignores the difficulties of coming forward for cases of sexual crime. Yes, this woman is vile and deserves to be punished but inflicting very severe sentencing on her will only discourage genuine cases from coming forward to report a crime that has low accusal and conviction rates.

It won't only discourage genuine cases, it would discourage false accusations too. A balance needs to be found.

Tombi!

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

If you want equality why don't you try be proactive for the male side for a change?

There are plenty of injustices and inequality that men have to deal with but you seem happy to forget them. Both sides are both important but if we all become female sympathisers there will be no one to voice our concerns.

Great. Now, can you tell me what else I don't know about myself? Or are you just guessing that because I didn't call for her head on a pike in the town square, that I'm somehow in favour of women's rights and making men into second class?

augustus gloop

one thing is for sure, the top dog in cell block H will plough her arse outta it

Millicent

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

The problem with this comparison is that rarely does anyone claim that most acquittals should not have been acquittals. Even in this thread you have people suggesting that an acquittal for rape does not make a man innocent.
The stigma can follow him for the rest of his life, far more severely than an accusation of drunk and disorderly or theft.

Absolutely agree with you. It is a complex crime with complex reactions and implications and is not an easy subject to deal, when talking about either the accuser or the accused. That said, rape is severely under-reported and the statistics for false accusations are vastly outweighed by the genuine claims. It is also notoriously difficult to get a conviction for rape and other sexual crimes. I don't think a false accusation should go unpunished but ten years is needlessly punitive. I think two years was probably a fair call for it.

Gauss

Quorum wrote: »

Gauss wrote: »

She did a terrible thing did she.

Yup. Sorry my wording doesn't meet your high standards.

I think you know it highlights a lack of empathy for the suffering of men.

Millicent

Gauss wrote: »

It won't only discourage genuine cases, it would discourage false accusations too. A balance needs to be found.

And how many false accusations are made a year that you think that far outweighs the impact of a reduction in genuine cases being reported?

hatrickpatrick

Millicent wrote: »

Absolutely agree with you. It is a complex crime with complex reactions and implications and is not an easy subject to deal, when talking about either the accuser or the accused. That said, rape is severely under-reported and the statistics for false accusations are vastly outweighed by the genuine claims. It is also notoriously difficult to get a conviction for rape and other sexual crimes. I don't think a false accusation should go unpunished but ten years is needlessly punitive. I think two years was probably a fair call for it.

By assuming here should have been convictions in many cases of acquittals, you are adding to the lack of credibility. Again, why is 'innocent until proven guilty' suspended specifically in cases of sexual assault? Legally speaking, an acquittal means the accused is not guilty. By assuming most of these are incorrect, you are just as bad as the people who assume most accusers are liars.

Quorum

Gauss wrote: »

I think you know it highlights a lack of empathy for the suffering of men.

I'll thank you not to make assumptions about what I "know" and think.