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Woman accuses three men of rape after drunken romp

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    #902
    midlandsmissus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭midlandsmissus


    Sierra 117 wrote: »
    It's not relevant. Tulisa wasn't out of it from being drunk, she was out of it because her drink was spiked.

    I could be very pedantic and say they're both drugs....probably a new thread should be started on this though.

    Some-one with a few drinks is fine. Some-one who has drank an extreme amount for their body weight is not fine to have sex with, it's common sense up to everyone to be aware of this on nights out.


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    #903
    wonderfullife
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,924 ✭✭✭wonderfullife


    midlandsmissus wrote: »
    I could be very pedantic and say they're both drugs....probably a new thread should be started on this though.

    Some-one with a few drinks is fine. Some-one who has drank an extreme amount for their body weight is not fine to have sex with, it's common sense up to everyone to be aware of this on nights out.

    There's more to how alcohol affects humans than body weight. I'm sure we all know a few light-weights on nights out!! As i've said previously i know a very big guy who is a brutal drinker! So for him he'd be locked after 3 or 4 pints. For my height and body weight i can drink quite good - 5'9, 11 stone and it'd take 6 pints to get to the tipsy point.

    You can't apply this logic, that a couple of drinks is fine and a lot of drinks is not fine. It makes a mockery of the millions of people worldwide who have drunk sex and know what they're doing. I know plenty of girls, small and tall, who can drink like a fish and be standing long after i'm in a heap ready for the leaba!!

    Point is simple - you can consent drunk. You can consent very drunk. You can't consent incapacitated or unconscious. If anybody feels like they were "too out of it" to give consent, then they can go to the police and it'll be taken very seriously.

    It's not just common sense to know you shouldn't have sex with someone who can't stand or speak due to alcohol. There's a law against it!!! But if both are drunk, or very drunk, or hammered off their faces, if they go home and consent to sex great!! Good luck to them! Happens day in, day out at home and abroad. Drunk consensual sex. To imply this is only ok after a "few drinks relative to their body weight" is not right.


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    #904
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    midlandsmissus wrote: »
    :rolleyes: I was adding it to the last six pages where the discussion has moved on to asking can you give consent if you are extremely drunk/out of it. So therefore it is very relevant.

    You're having a discussion by yourself tbh. Someone who is passed out can't consent. Someone who is drunk on a dancefloor, making a pass at someone, lucid etc. etc. can consent and often do.


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    #905
    Daveysil15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,301 ✭✭✭Daveysil15


    wonderfullife wrote: »
    Point is simple - you can consent drunk. You can consent very drunk. You can't consent incapacitated or unconscious.

    if both are drunk, or very drunk, or hammered off their faces, if they go home and consent to sex great!! Good luck to them!

    Exactly. What harm are they doing? There's no malicious intent involved in that situation. The Tulisa incident was different because her drink was spiked. That was out of her control.


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    #906
    Medu
    Registered Users Posts: 74 ✭✭Medu


    Consent is a legal nightmare. I think it really needs to be simplified. Drunk people trying to determine if other drunk people are too drunk to have sex is just nonsense.

    No means no.


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    #907
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Medu wrote: »
    No means no.

    That's not really the issue, it's when yes means no that the problems start.


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    #908
    H2UMrsRobinson
    Registered Users Posts: 763 ✭✭✭H2UMrsRobinson


    Just my twopence worth fwiw. I'm actually of the opinion that this shouldn't be discussed as a woman v men issue. We are after all the same species. It's a case of one human being doing something despicable to another human being/s. The gender issue just confuses it. Rape is wrong-full stop. As is falsely accusing someone of rape. The issue of male on female or vice versa is immaterial. It's only been the last 50-60 years that we've seen the dawn of woman's sexual liberation and tbh I still don't think we've (humans) got a handle on it. I think it'll take a few more generations before we iron out the wrinkles and really start to see beyond it, in crimes or issues of a sexual nature. What this person did to other people is completely wrong. They are now being punished.

    Just from a quick google, it would seem to me that for every false rape accusation there are many more genuine rape cases that go unreported or worse still unpunished. This should be the focus of our outrage, not this individual case which at the end of the day has reached a satisfactory outcome in the eyes of the law.


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    #909
    token101
    Registered Users Posts: 3,050 ✭✭✭token101


    Piste wrote: »
    It was an absolutely terrible accusation for the girl to make and she does deserve to be punished, but how on EARTH can anyone think that accusing someone of rape is a crime on the same level as rape? Get a sense of proportionality!

    So the mental torture of having your parents, friends, workmates and every person you know locally think you're a violent sexual predator because some scumbag wants revenge is more acceptable? What if she wasn't caught? Every single interaction you have for an indefinite period is characterised by lies that some 'victim' has thought up for the what are often the most trivial reasons. Rapists are fairly commonly referred to as psychopaths, are rightfully so. But psychopathy is described as being characterized by shallow emotions (in particular reduced fear), stress tolerance, lacking empathy, coldheartedness, lacking guilt, egocentricity, superficial charm, manipulativeness, irresponsibility, impulsivity and antisocial behaviors. She ticks all the boxes.


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    #910
    token101
    Registered Users Posts: 3,050 ✭✭✭token101


    H2UMrsRobinson wrote: »
    Just from a quick google, it would seem to me that for every false rape accusation there are many more genuine rape cases that go unreported or worse still unpunished.

    I'd love to know how a figure could be placed on something like that. How could the authorities who compile those stats possibly know that? I am genuinely curious there, because for something like rape, it's generally one person's word against another. So how could it be so strongly biased towards one way or another?


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    #911
    otto_26
    Registered Users Posts: 518 ✭✭✭otto_26


    H2UMrsRobinson wrote: »

    Just from a quick google, it would seem to me that for every false rape accusation there are many more genuine rape cases that go unreported or worse still unpunished. This should be the focus of our outrage, not this individual case which at the end of the day has reached a satisfactory outcome in the eyes of the law.

    This individual case is really important and should be the focus of our outrage because this evil women and the thousands like her are the reason why genuine rape cases go unreported or worse still unpunished because women are worried if they make a report people might think she is lying because of what this evil women and the thousands like her did.


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    #912
    Demonique
    Registered Users Posts: 2,824 ✭✭✭Demonique


    Agent Smith wrote: »
    She should have gotten a sentence in line with what the men would have got if they were guilty


    Accusing someone of rape isn't quite as nasty as actually raping someone y'know


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    #913
    parrai
    Registered Users Posts: 500 ✭✭✭parrai


    Demonique wrote: »
    Accusing someone of rape isn't quite as nasty as actually raping someone y'know

    No it is not, but it would set a precedent. What she done was evil. She was thinking only of herself.


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    #914
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    midlandsmissus wrote: »
    Some-one with a few drinks is fine. Some-one who has drank an extreme amount for their body weight is not fine to have sex with, it's common sense up to everyone to be aware of this on nights out.
    You get problems when the other people who are supposed to decide on your level of drunkenness are drunk and disinhibited themselves.


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    #915
    FrogMarch
    Registered Users Posts: 157 ✭✭FrogMarch


    Demonique wrote: »
    Accusing someone of rape isn't quite as nasty as actually raping someone y'know

    They're two sides of the same coin. I'd imagine that someone who does either is severely lacking in empathy, probably has serious psychological issues and is susceptible to criminality.


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    #916
    Daveysil15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,301 ✭✭✭Daveysil15


    Monty Burnz wrote: »
    You get problems when the other people who are supposed to decide on your level of drunkenness are drunk and disinhibited themselves.

    True. It's a bit difficult when everyone is getting pissed. How can one drunk person assess wheather another drunk person is too drunk to have sex with? It just wouldn't work.


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    #917
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    H2UMrsRobinson wrote: »
    Just my twopence worth fwiw. I'm actually of the opinion that this shouldn't be discussed as a woman v men issue. We are after all the same species. It's a case of one human being doing something despicable to another human being/s. The gender issue just confuses it. Rape is wrong-full stop. As is falsely accusing someone of rape. The issue of male on female or vice versa is immaterial. It's only been the last 50-60 years that we've seen the dawn of woman's sexual liberation and tbh I still don't think we've (humans) got a handle on it. I think it'll take a few more generations before we iron out the wrinkles and really start to see beyond it, in crimes or issues of a sexual nature. What this person did to other people is completely wrong. They are now being punished.

    Just from a quick google, it would seem to me that for every false rape accusation there are many more genuine rape cases that go unreported or worse still unpunished. This should be the focus of our outrage, not this individual case which at the end of the day has reached a satisfactory outcome in the eyes of the law.

    It's a woman v man issue because women are immune to prosecution in cases such as those we are discussing, even when both parties share an equal amount of responsibility for what they both chose to do.

    Such laws simply should not exist. The law should never differentiate between men and women IMO, just human beings.


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