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Children penalised for the actions of parents

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12467…24

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    #92
    Peanut2011
    Registered Users Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭Peanut2011


    Anyone wrote: »
    I haven't seen any of these applications, so I cant. I'll show you plenty of instances where its been stated that the Household charge is being used to fund local services though. And I'll show you plenty of warnings issued that non payment of the Household charge may mean a drop or removal of a service.

    Fair enough, however if you have a system in place and it states a, b & c is the way we determine if you apply for it, they can not ask for X just cos they want to.

    In that case should we not cut off the salary and or pensions of all crocked politicians? Have they stopped Mick Wallace's wages for signing the false declaration?

    You can't do one but not do the other. Rules are the same for all!


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    #93
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users Posts: 16,130 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    Biggins wrote: »
    Quite simply that our government has become to bitter and low - they they are striking out at the youth of our nation!

    ...For the legal (or illegal) actions of others!

    What part of that is not clear?

    Jeez, do you work for the Indo or the Star, Biggins?

    The last time I checked, Clare Co Council is not the Govt.

    And children aren't being punished. Children don't go to University. If you are mature enough to go to university and apply for your own grant you are not a child.

    And most people don't have to pay fees. Their fees are heavily subsidised by the government. And the government subsidises these fees with what? Taxpayers' money, that's what.

    Now work out the rest...


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    #94
    Thwip!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,234 ✭✭✭Thwip!


    Biggins wrote: »
    What next?

    Don't pay your TV licence?
    Your kids are penalised!

    Don't pay your car tax?
    Your kids are penalised!

    Don't pay a fine?
    Your kids are penalised!

    The above might be only an extreme - but the government has now opened that door!
    Dont pay your tv licence
    Your kids witness bosco getting shot by enda


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    #95
    jhegarty
    Registered Users Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭jhegarty


    Student A:

    Daddy is in mountjoy for murder. Here's your grant.

    Student B:

    Daddy didn't pay household charge , no grant for you.


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    #96
    Forest Demon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 632 ✭✭✭Forest Demon


    Pherekydes wrote: »

    And children aren't being punished. Children don't go to University. If you are mature enough to go to university and apply for your own grant you are not a child.

    If they are not children/dependants then why does their parents income come into it in the first place?

    By the way the council is local government. Even less accountable then the spanners we have in central government.


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    #97
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Children....... kill your parents.
    You'll be assessed on your own merit then.


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    #98
    Peanut2011
    Registered Users Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭Peanut2011


    I guess the bottom line for any of the "kids" applying for the grants is to simply declare "do not own house". They can't withhold the service from them in that case. Is it not the same case as when renting? The landlord is liable for any such taxes, you can hardly go and ask him / her for the proof they paid.

    That is none of your business and if the CoCo wants they can pursue them directly. That is their problem not the problem of the person who does not own the property.


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    #99
    Anyone
    Registered Users Posts: 3,376 ✭✭✭Anyone


    Peanut2011 wrote: »
    I guess the bottom line for any of the "kids" applying for the grants is to simply declare "do not own house". They can't withhold the service from them in that case. Is it not the same case as when renting? The landlord is liable for any such taxes, you can hardly go any ask him / her for the proof they paid.

    That is none of your business and if the CoCo wants they can pursue them directly. That is their problem not the problem of the person who does not own the property.

    Or pay the Household charge.


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    #100
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    westendgirlie wrote: »
    But if a parent chose not to pay the application processing fee, wouldn't the children still be the one being penalised?


    Indeed - directly related to that payment - a payment allocated specific to the application. They are DIRECTLY affecting that application, knowing their singular payment for that application would have a detrimental effect!

    When the household charge was invented NOWHERE was it stated that "this will effect your sons/daughters education grants!"
    Nowhere.

    Fine Gael and Labour are just now digging up in a bitter, disgusting way, a new method to hit back at people by making their children suffer in education!
    Rotten to the core are their methods.


    Also look at it this way, every household in the country now can and be entitled to get a portion of state education grants just supposedly because they paid their household tax.

    If they don't get that grant in some small form for their kids, they can possibly take the government for taking money for in return non-supply of grant!


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    #101
    Peanut2011
    Registered Users Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭Peanut2011


    Anyone wrote: »
    Or pay the Household charge.

    Why??? If I don't own the property why would I pay it?


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    #102
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Pherekydes wrote: »
    Jeez, do you work for the Indo or the Star, Biggins?

    The last time I checked, Clare Co Council is not the Govt.

    They are elected state employees?
    I guess I am wrong.


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    #103
    IvySlayer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,187 ✭✭✭✭IvySlayer


    If people don't pay taxes, we can't afford all these grants. If someone didn't pay their taxes should they get child benefit? Nope.


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    #104
    ilovesleep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭ilovesleep


    Mick Wallace didn't pay his taxes and he's allowed to access public money on his wage. Not only is he entitled to his salary, he's entitled to a 41k allowance on top of his 93k a year salary.


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    #105
    working fool
    Registered Users Posts: 813 ✭✭✭working fool


    On the flip side

    Pay household charge = free 3rd level education

    Pay ur road tax = be aloud to park in disabled spaces

    Pay ur tv licence = free sky plus

    No penalty points = free tumblers or a football .

    Off the dole = free butter & cheese ?


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    #106
    Peanut2011
    Registered Users Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭Peanut2011


    IvySlayer wrote: »
    If people don't pay taxes, we can't afford all these grants. If someone didn't pay their taxes should they get child benefit? Nope.

    If we look at it that way I guess the Social Welfare bill will be drastically reduced!


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    #107
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    IvySlayer wrote: »
    If people don't pay taxes, we can't afford all these grants. If someone didn't pay their taxes should they get child benefit? Nope.

    ...And if a person paid every other charge/tax/levy under the Irish sun but forgot or simply didn't pay one charge for 'local services' - their offspring gets the punishment?

    Yea, that sounds completely fair all right!


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    #108
    ilovesleep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭ilovesleep


    IvySlayer wrote: »
    If people don't pay taxes, we can't afford all these grants. If someone didn't pay their taxes should they get child benefit? Nope.

    But the country can afford a 41k allowance on top of a 93k salary to Mick Wallace, a tax cheat.


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    #109
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Not long now folks.......

    Children shaped into becoming "good" citizens of the state. Probably will be taught to spy on their parents and report any anti-government criticism as well.

    History repeating itself.


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    #110
    UDP
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭UDP


    mikom wrote: »
    Children....... kill your parents.
    You'll be assessed on your own merit then.
    Or just apply for the grant as an independent which any independent student is entitled to do.


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    #111
    IvySlayer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,187 ✭✭✭✭IvySlayer


    Biggins wrote: »
    ...And if a person paid every other charge/tax/levy under the Irish sun but forgot or simply didn't pay one charge for 'local services' - their offspring gets the punishment?

    Yea, that sounds completely fair all right!

    Is it possible for you to answer a question without changing the argument?

    Should a parent who didn't pay a certain tax be able to claim child benefit? Yes or no.


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    #112
    Rasheed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,117 ✭✭✭Rasheed


    The hypocrisy in this country is woeful sometimes.

    We were warned that these grants and local services would suffer because of non payment of the tax.

    Now people are losing their life because it's actually happening.

    I agree with Clare Coco, people can't have it every way.


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    #113
    Mal-Adjusted
    Registered Users Posts: 3,578 ✭✭✭Mal-Adjusted


    hmm, brings me back to the whole "If Clare co co. didn't waste all their money on a visitors center in the burren" ****e-talk from a few years back.


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    #114
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    mikom wrote: »
    Not long now folks.......

    Children shaped into becoming "good" citizens of the state. Probably will be taught to spy on their parents and report any anti-government criticism as well.

    History repeating itself.

    1942?

    ...And with Alan Shatter cracking down on press freedoms (todays papers), you soon won't be able to report of those that can get away with such things (politicians past and present) and those that can't (you and I)!


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    #115
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Rasheed wrote: »
    The hypocrisy in this country is woeful sometimes.

    We were warned that these grants and local services would suffer because of non payment of the tax.

    Now people are losing their life because it's actually happening.

    I agree with Clare Coco, people can't have it every way.

    The grants come from general taxation, not from local authority budgets.


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    #116
    Peanut2011
    Registered Users Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭Peanut2011


    IvySlayer wrote: »
    Is it possible for you to answer a question without changing the argument?

    Should a parent who didn't pay a certain tax be able to claim child benefit? Yes or no.

    Yes, child benefit is for the child not the parent!

    Is the system wrong, yes to that too. The whole system is well overdue a change but that would mean giving up the cushy numbers for many of our "elite" politicians hence they do everything else to avoid any short change in their pocket.


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    #117
    BASHIR
    Registered Users Posts: 553 ✭✭✭BASHIR


    Absolute blackmail. Punish the parents for not paying the charge not the children FFs. It is hardly the childs fault.


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    #118
    Skylinehead
    Registered Users Posts: 11,690 ✭✭✭✭Skylinehead


    ilovesleep wrote: »
    Mick Wallace didn't pay his taxes and he's allowed to access public money on his wage. Not only is he entitled to his salary, he's entitled to a 41k allowance on top of his 93k a year salary.
    ilovesleep wrote: »
    But the country can afford a 41k allowance on top of a 93k salary to Mick Wallace, a tax cheat.

    Yes yes,we get it. This has nothing to do with Mick Wallace.


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    #119
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    IvySlayer wrote: »
    Is it possible for you to answer a question without changing the argument?

    Should a parent who didn't pay a certain tax be able to claim child benefit? Yes or no.

    You didn't previously ask the bolded question above - you must have missed that part!

    Child benefit is applied for at a social service office - which by the way, they do NOT charge for.
    ...And we can assume the same amount of assessment as regard income is used?
    No?

    There was simply NO mention of education grants when the Household tax came in or was introduced to the public.
    They are only now using it as a stick to hit people over the head with - hit one person but fcuk it, let someone else feel the pain!
    They don't care who suffers as long as they get to get the boot in!


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    #120
    Conar
    Registered Users Posts: 1,604 ✭✭✭Conar


    jhegarty wrote: »
    Student A:

    Daddy is in mountjoy for murder. Here's your grant.

    Student B:

    Daddy didn't pay household charge , no grant for you.

    So its unfair to punish children for the actions of their parents unless they come from deprived families or broken homes in which case they should punish the children?

    Hasn't someone already clarified that children can apply for the grants on their own. This seems to imply that they don't need to be assessed as dependants if their parents value their €100 more than their child's grant.


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    #121
    Gurgle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,064 ✭✭✭Gurgle


    Biggins wrote: »
    When the household charge was invented NOWHERE was it stated that "this will effect your sons/daughters education grants!"
    Nowhere.
    Likewise, nowhere was it stated 'This is an optional charge, intended to measure just how pìssed off you plebiscites are getting. If you wish to object to austerity measures, please do so by not paying this one'.


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