Children penalised for the actions of parents

Biggins

You say you wouldn't be happy if I cheated on my taxes...! Does that mean you'd object to me getting a grant on said tax cheating?

* I would be unhappy if you cheated on your taxes.
* I would be happy for you to gain a grant if you got it truthfully on the money your bringing home in real value after deductions you have paid.
This includes having paid tax/duty on everything you have bought from a sandwich to petrol for your car, etc...
* I would expect (hope) the state would go after you - not your children in metering out and/or seeking resolution/answers to your tax issues.

squawkbox

Biggins wrote: »

* I would be unhappy if you cheated on your taxes.
* I would be happy for you to gain a grant if you got it truthfully on the money your bringing home in real value after deductions you have paid.
This includes having paid tax/duty on everything you have bought from a sandwich to petrol for your car, etc...
* I would expect (hope) the state would go after you - not your children in metering out and/or seeking resolution/answers to your tax issues.

Do you not realise that the state takes over half my pay at the marginal rate, do you not see that this means I have less money to give to my hypothetical children? The state is having its wicked way with my money which I could otherwise use to benefit my family.

You seem unable to grasp the connection between work, money, taxes and grants.

I don't feel entitled to a grant, I just wish the state would stop taking money from me to give to people who have done nothing to deserve it and who won't even get their own taxes in order

squawkbox

Biggins wrote: »

Where have I said the above?

Clearly on the matters here, we will have to agree to disagree.

You don't see unfairness and possibly double-standards which others do.
Thats your right.

Its others right to see such things though and mention them.

Ehh... You didn't say that. I said it, because it's a fact. People who miss out on grants don't do so because their their breath stinks, they miss out because of the hard work of their parents. People who don't work or who get paid cash in hand can get grants however.

Biggins

squawkbox wrote: »

Do you not realise that the state takes over half my pay at the marginal rate, do you not see that this means I have less money to give to my hypothetical children? The state is having its wicked way with my money which I could otherwise use to benefit my family.

You seem unable to grasp the connection between work, money, taxes and grants.

* I understand that your paying a great 'whack' of money to the state.
I'm personally sorry to hear this. I wish that situation was different for you (and others in similar situation).
I wish things could be different. I suspect many here do too.

* I grasp the connection between work, money, taxes and grants.
(I've studied Taxation and accountancy full time with the IATI, 8 Upper Pembroke Street)

squawkbox wrote: »

...I don't feel entitled to a grant, I just wish the state would stop taking money from me to give to people who have done nothing to deserve it and who won't even get their own taxes in order

Believe me, many wish it too, including I.
I acknowledge also that while some have an issue with one tax and that matter is being tried to be resolved, they have been at the same time had the decency to continue to pay the vast bulk of others.
They have done this rather than just completely stop paying all taxes.

Biggins

squawkbox wrote: »

Ehh... You didn't say that. I said it, because it's a fact. People who miss out on grants don't do so because their their breath stinks, they miss out because of the hard work of their parents. People who don't work or who get paid cash in hand can get grants however.

There is certainly unfairness in the present system.
You will get no argument from me about that.

Micky Dolenz

Mod

Quit the bickering please.

ilovesleep

fishy fishy wrote: »

if you call a fire brigade you get billed up to 400 per hour (or minute thereof) for EACH one that comes out.

People will get an awful land, when they realize that the 100 household charge "for services" do not include any services. :D

That's it, Fishy Fishy.

Cicero

This is such a " rant" thread...and on a hiding to nothing..,the thread title is pure tabloid scare mongering trollism...it's Daddy or chips in a different form...get outta here OP.

LoonyLovegood

A bus left my university today filled with students going down to Ennis to protest. I think it's ridiculous, for many families (my own included), to pay the household tax can mean the mortgage doesn't get paid for a month, or someone doesn't eat as much as they need, or even that the electricity gets switched off for longer periods. It's not al black and white

Cicero

CTYIgirl wrote: »

A bus left my university today filled with students going down to Ennis to protest.

And how much did the diesel cost for that?;)

LoonyLovegood

Cicero wrote: »

And how much did the diesel cost for that?;)

Good aul ULA, free seats on the bus. Half them getting on were using it to get home!

Cicero

CTYIgirl wrote: »

Good aul ULA, free seats on the bus. Half them getting on were using it to get home!

So it wasn't "filled" with students " going to protest" then, was it?

Spread

CTYIgirl wrote: »

A bus left my university today filled with students going down to Ennis to protest. I think it's ridiculous, for many families (my own included), to pay the household tax can mean the mortgage doesn't get paid for a month, or someone doesn't eat as much as they need, or even that the electricity gets switched off for longer periods. It's not al black and white

Most property taxes here are around $100 per week. If you default for three years the Government put a lien on it.

JRant

What's plan to see is that not one single poster has addressed the issue of due process and seperation of power. That is what this issue boils down to really, the grant is just a patsy to distract from the real problem. This Government want to see what they can get away with and this is just another 'kite' being flown.
For a lot of intelligent people to come on here and spout nobsense like "no pay HHC, no get any service" is freigthening. It's not a big step to go from this to "no pay HHC, no get leaving cert results" etc. It literally has no end, if we as citizens allow the powers that be to ignore the rule of society laid down by the constitution, and run rough shod over this issue.
I'm all ears for any point that addresses these points.

jimmycrackcorm

Can't understand why people cannot make the connection that a 3rd level grant is means tested against parents income and yet totally ignore their tax liabilities.

ilovesleep

Spread wrote: »

Most property taxes here are around $100 per week. If you default for three years the Government put a lien on it.

Where are you?

squawkbox

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Can't understand why people cannot make the connection that a 3rd level grant is means tested against parents income and yet totally ignore their tax liabilities.

People who see the grant as an entitlement have this difficulty. Those who see it as a generous Government help don't.

Feathers

Zulu wrote: »

Apologies Biggins, indeed you didn't.

However, you did not state that there wasn't another way; you do not know if there's another way - which makes your original assertion hyperbole. Nothing changes.

You can not claim, as you did, that it's: "PR spin semantics = amounting to the same thing. Same end result." because if there is another way to get the payment, then it's NOT the same thing, is it?

But hey, don't worry about it. You'd prefer to deal in sensationalist, tabloid, hyperbole - that's fine. I'm sure Debbie, 21, from page 3, is equally miffed at the councils decision not to process applications.

Let's clear this up: there isn't another way. Grants that are processed through the local authority are processed through the local authority. New applications which can go through the new central body are done so there. But there's no option on behalf of the applicant.

Secondly, in any PR spin for the HHC, there has been nothing mentioned of paying for the wages of clerical staff — these people aren't being brought in for the summer to process grant applications; they are full-time members of the CCC payrole. The charge was supposedly for amenities provided by the council — i.e. funding the upkeep of parks, libraries, refuse, street lights etc & the money needed to provide this.

Whether or not the council were processing grant applications, they would have the same number of clerical staff on their books. This isn't something that they're spending money on that would otherwise be saved or alleviated by the HHC.

squawkbox wrote: »

Face it, it's not just kids applying for grants, it's their parents applying for grants for their kids.

No, it's not.

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Can't understand why people cannot make the connection that a 3rd level grant is means tested against parents income and yet totally ignore their tax liabilities.

Because tax liabilities aren't income. If they want people to be tax-compliant to get a grant, change the rules. But they don't care about motor tax or other outstanding charges due to the government, they just want people to sign up to a property register. What does a property register have to do with educational grant — this is the connection that people cannot make, because the only logic at play here is to manipulate people outside of the law to make the numbers look better.

Piliger

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Can't understand why people cannot make the connection that a 3rd level grant is means tested against parents income and yet totally ignore their tax liabilities.

This is what happens with people who only think about what they can get from the State; what they can suck out of the pockets of people who pay taxes.

JRant

Piliger wrote: »

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Can't understand why people cannot make the connection that a 3rd level grant is means tested against parents income and yet totally ignore their tax liabilities.

This is what happens with people who only think about what they can get from the State; what they can suck out of the pockets of people who pay taxes.

Yet neither of you seem to be able to realise that the grant system has absolutely nothing to do with the HHC.

It was the CoCo blatantly ignoring their own rules, as has been admitted by them already. But hey don't let that stop you from sticking it to all those people who were genuinely in need of these grants and causing a lot of undue stress in an already stressful situation.