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Gardai (and Shatter) failed to enforce the law at RIRA funeral

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13567…13

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    #62
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,798 ✭✭✭karma_


    SocSocPol wrote: »
    Strange how anyone could describe a bunch of masked thugs firing shots in a residential area as "peaceful".

    In fairness, that's just semantics, it went off relatively peacefully, in that there was no violent confrontation and no one was hurt.


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    #63
    Laminations
    Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    karma_ wrote: »
    It's already been pointed out in this thread, the Gardai are following on from the experience of the PSNI and the RUC before them in how to deal with these situations, and they certainly have far more experience in matters of this nature. Thankfully saner heads were in charge of the policing for this, rather than the quasi-fascistic garbage being proposed in this thread.

    There are sectarian tensions in the north that don't apply here. Some people my view the RUC or PSNI as a foreign police force symbolising the occupation of their land. The gardai cannot be viewed like that.

    As for quasi-fascistic, please explain


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    #64
    Goro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 247 ✭✭Goro


    karma_ wrote: »
    That is a fairly extreme viewpoint you have there.

    As extreme as allowing terrorist gangs to fire live weapons in our capital?

    I am a very normal and tolerant person, and not in any way extreme politically. I am all for democracy and defending that democracy from thugs should be a given for any police force!

    I just don't see the point of pandering to terrorists and rioters. They can terrorize innocent people but we can't call for any stern action against them?

    What should we do? Let them continue to wreak havoc and spread fear whenever the mood takes them?


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    #65
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,798 ✭✭✭karma_


    Goro wrote: »

    What should we do? Let them continue to wreak havoc and spread fear whenever the mood takes them?

    I think we should let the Gardai do their job, rather than pressing for reckless and extreme action.


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    #66
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Fair play to the Garda authorities on this. They made the right decisions and can deal with any identified law-breakers in their own time. To intervene would only have provided those responsible for this laughable farce with a platform from which to preach their out-dated rubbish..
    All the incident proved is that there are still some members of the working-class communities who are easily led by gangsters and criminals.

    Some people will never learn and to even start a thread on this instead of ignoring it is a mistake.


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    #67
    Goro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 247 ✭✭Goro


    karma_ wrote: »
    I think we should let the Gardai do their job, rather than pressing for reckless and extreme action.

    Reckless is allowing terrorist organizations to fire guns in a crowded housing estate in broad daylight.


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    #68
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,798 ✭✭✭karma_


    Goro wrote: »
    Reckless is allowing terrorist organizations to fire guns in a crowded housing estate in broad daylight.

    I'm not going play this little game of tail chasing with you.


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    #69
    Sulla Felix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,442 ✭✭✭Sulla Felix


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    In an ideal world, yes, but starting a battle in a residential area would have ended badly.

    The sooner people stop supporting these illegitimate organisations the better. These ***** talk about sovereignty, yet blatantly ignored the laws Ireland.
    These people aren't dumb. A couple hundred oglaigh na heirean in full kit would have put the kibosh on it.


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    #70
    Laminations
    Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    tayto lover wrote: »
    any identified law-breakers in their own time..

    Thats fine if they identified them. I doubt they did with the big charade and distractions from the supporting crowd. As for the gun shots, do gardai know how many guns were used? The type of gun apart from semi-automatoc (which im almost sure you can't get a licence for? Did they retrieve any weapons in follow up searches? Did they allow the shooters leave the area with the guns? Look fair play if they get any arrests and charges to stick after this. But it still allowed public streets in a community that doesn't support dissident terrorists to be turned into a wild west type bandit land. If dissidents started discharging weapons in tribute to a trumped up gangland killer in Foxrock and the gardai stood by we'd surely see a different reaction. The army should've been there, even as a mere unarmed but imposing presence, to remind the funeral goers of the legitimate defence forces of this country.


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    #71
    mikemac1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,395 ✭✭✭✭mikemac1


    Laminations wrote: »
    I'd also take issue with the media and their portrayal of the criminal underworld and dissident republicans. Actions like what happened at this funeral should be lambasted in the press. Too often the media dub these criminal figures with 'hard sounding' nicknames and glamourise or mystify their wicked lives. 'The Beast' was this fellas name, a right goer in the sack according to a Sunday World article...

    I thought the media gave them nicknames to avoid being sued.

    People know who they are but the paper won't come out and name them

    This guy is named now but there are other criminals out there with nicknames.


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    #72
    Laminations
    Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    Goro wrote: »
    I just don't see the point of pandering to terrorists and rioters. They can terrorize innocent people but we can't call for any stern action against them?

    I agree with you that we need stern action with dissidents and criminal gangs but it's a bit far to suggest that rooftop snipers should assassinate people. The funeral should've been kept under control and any paramilitary dress up soldiers should've been arrested. Was the Garda helicopter involved even?


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    #73
    Laminations
    Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    mikemac1 wrote: »
    I thought the media gave them nicknames to avoid being sued.

    People know who they are but the paper won't come out and name them

    This guy is named now but there are other criminals out their with nicknames.



    Yes i know the reason is because they cannot legally name them but when choosing nicknames they could go for 'the coward', 'the paedophile', 'the stinkfinger', 'Mr impotent' etc rather than 'the general', 'the don', 'the beast'.

    Why give them fearsome names??


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    #74
    mikemac1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,395 ✭✭✭✭mikemac1


    Sells papers :)


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    #75
    Laminations
    Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    mikemac1 wrote: »
    Sells papers :)

    And 'the wanker from the ding dong sausage gang strikes again' wouldn't sell papers?? Anyway, they should have some social responsibility that extends beyond their need to glorify criminals to sell papers.


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    #76
    laoch na mona
    Registered Users Posts: 2,965 ✭✭✭laoch na mona


    it was a funeral nice of the guards to have the decency to hold back

    the can arrest people a few weeks later


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    #77
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,466 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    If they had intervened we would have a thread decrying the actions of the Gardai - because ultimately it would have led to an incident unfolding amongst the mourners, and would give oxygen to the dissidents that they so dearly want.


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    #78
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,439 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    If they had intervened we would have a thread decrying the actions of the Gardai - because ultimately it would have led to an incident unfolding amongst the mourners, and would give the oxygen to the dissidents that they so dearly want.

    Damned if you do, damned if you don't! And probably damned if you do somewhere in the middle. Wouldn't like to be making the call.


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    #79
    Laminations
    Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    If they had intervened we would have a thread decrying the actions of the Gardai - because ultimately it would have led to an incident unfolding amongst the mourners, and would give the oxygen to the dissidents that they so dearly want.

    Maybe. But not started by me.

    There was apparently an agreement with funeral organisers and the gardai. The gardai held their side of the deal, the others didn't. That's the respect they show the people of this country.


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    #80
    Laminations
    Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    TheChizler wrote: »
    Damned if you do, damned if you don't! And probably damned if you do somewhere in the middle. Wouldn't like to be making the call.

    Oh I agree. The gardai have a very difficult job and I support them in everything they do. The amount of criminals 'known to gardai' must make them so annoyed seeing the courts hand down ineffective hand slaps and sentences. This isn't a bash the gardai thread. Nor will you find me on the 'cut their wages' threads. I just think this decision sent the wrong message, especially now that we hear there was an agreement ignored by the funeral organisers.


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    #81
    snafuk35
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 833 ✭✭✭snafuk35


    This thread is getting ridiculous.
    The Gardaí have videos and photos of everyone who showed their faces at that funeral.

    Some posters seem to think the army should have machine gunned the crowd or something. Laughable stuff.


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    #82
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    snafuk35 wrote: »
    This thread is getting ridiculous.
    The Gardaí have videos and photos of everyone who showed their faces at that funeral.

    Some posters seem to think the army should have machine gunned the crowd or something. Laughable stuff.

    Exactly. Better to ignore the incident as to do otherwise only gives these lowlifes publicity they couldn't get otherwise.


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    #83
    Laminations
    Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    snafuk35 wrote: »
    This thread is getting ridiculous.
    The Gardaí have videos and photos of everyone who showed their faces at that funeral.

    It's the people that covered their faces and fired weapons that are the problem. I think identifying them will be a problem.
    Some posters seem to think the army should have machine gunned the crowd or something. Laughable stuff.

    Yes some posters are being extreme in their suggestions. Suggesting better preparation and crowd control is not laughable. They'll know not to make a deal with the devils in the future.


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    #84
    Duiske
    Registered Users Posts: 3,087 ✭✭✭Duiske


    Fenian Army wrote: »
    The Brits knew better than to interfere with IRA funerals in the north (which admittedly tended to be much larger), just not worth it.


    Exactly. This video below shows how things can turn nasty. Its a clip of what happened in 1987 at Emyvale, Co Monaghan, when detectives tried to stop a van carrying IRA men who had just fired a volley of shots over the coffin of Jim Lynagh, one of the 8 men killed in the Loughgall ambush. Its pure luck one of those Gardai were not seriously injured or killed.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVN79CWeDxY


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    #85
    snafuk35
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 833 ✭✭✭snafuk35


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Exactly. Better to ignore the incident as to do otherwise only gives these lowlifes publicity they couldn't get otherwise.

    How would you have intervened without the situation going completely out of control and without people getting shot and killed?

    I'm all ears.


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    #86
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    snafuk35 wrote: »
    How would you have intervened without the situation going completely out of control and without people getting shot and killed?

    I'm all ears.

    My post was in agreement with yours. The Garda were right in what they did.


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    #87
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    This is ridiculous. It's just like those people in America who claim that more armed people inside Aurora Theatre would have prevented the bloodbath - as if a shootout in a dark enclosed space packed full of people would have saved more lives than it would have cost.

    Furthermore, do you really want to give these guys the opportunity to paint themselves as martyrs?

    Disrupting this funeral would have caused far more bullsh!t than it would have prevented.


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    #88
    zom
    Registered Users Posts: 1,908 ✭✭✭zom


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »

    Furthermore, do you really want to give these guys the opportunity to paint themselves as martyrs?

    Do you mean we should accept RIRA existence, let them play their games (shooting, pipe bombing etc.)? Should we threat them as a kind of local folklore, part of heritage the same way as travelers and Gaelic language? Because this is really how it's look like. There are some comments on foreign websites - try to read them.


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    #89
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    zom wrote: »
    Do you mean we should accept RIRA existence, let them play their games (shooting, pipe bombing etc.)? Should we threat them as a kind of local folklore, part of heritage the same way as travelers and Gaelic language? Because this is really how it's look like. There are some comments on foreign websites - try to read them.

    Maybe we could send this crowd out to talk to the Troika. They might put the frighteners on them and get our debt lowered.


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    #90
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    zom wrote: »
    Do you mean we should accept RIRA existence, let them play their games (shooting, pipe bombing etc.)? Should we threat them as a kind of local folklore, part of heritage the same way as travelers and Gaelic language? Because this is really how it's look like. There are some comments on foreign websites - try to read them.

    All I said was that starting some sort of shootout at a funeral isn't going to solve any problems and it would almost definitely cause a whole crapload of them.


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    #91
    JRant
    Registered Users Posts: 12,854 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Sure sit back and go with the flow must of been the word from Garda HQ.
    Who's to say those people who fired the shots are even residents of this State?
    Replace RIRA members/sympathizers with students/crusties/love Ulster parade or English hooligans in Lansdowne rd and we see a completely different approach. What of the civilians who were injured in these situations?
    I don't blame the Garda who were there as they were Desperately out manned and out gunned. However this nonsense has no place on our streets and should have been met head on by the top brass.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



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