Shooting in the French Alps

davet82 · 11-09-2012 2:06pm

Afghanistan
Angola
Czech Republic
Egypt
Indonesia
Iraq
Libya
Mozambique
Serbia
Slovakia
Uganda
Yugoslavia

special forces that use the gun, i also read its a weapon of choice for eastren european mafias

tigger123 · 11-09-2012 2:10pm

davet82 wrote: »

Afghanistan
Angola
Czech Republic
Egypt
Indonesia
Iraq
Libya
Mozambique
Serbia
Slovakia
Uganda
Yugoslavia

special forces that use the gun, i also read its a weapon of choice for eastren european mafias

Do you think all of those countries were involved in the "hit"?

davet82 · 11-09-2012 2:11pm

tigger123 wrote: »

Do you think all of those countries were involved in the "hit"?

no but i do now! :cool:

hedzball · 11-09-2012 2:15pm

The Skorpion is easily reloadable, doesn't sound very loud

Eh... a 7.65 round with a barrel the length of a pencil?..

Thing would be deafening ..

harr · 11-09-2012 3:34pm

http://news.sky.com/story/983759/three-people-found-shot-dead-on-french-island
copycat or same nut job?

Gun used in the shootings,seems quiet enough..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bQrovt5mN0&feature=related

cynder · 11-09-2012 4:06pm

harr wrote: »

the gun used in the attack,looks more like a pro hit more and more....
http://news.sky.com/story/983514/alps-shooting-machine-gun-used-in-killings

Not professional enough if he leaves 2 survivors....

cynder · 11-09-2012 4:10pm

harr wrote: »

http://news.sky.com/story/983759/three-people-found-shot-dead-on-french-island
copycat or same nut job?

Gun used in the shootings,seems quiet enough..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bQrovt5mN0&feature=related

Is the gun confirmed or do sky's expert sources say it was the gun? They have people analysing the science from photos yet do not have hard evidence to analyse have the experts seen the bullets/ casing or only pictures of them?

Witcher · 11-09-2012 4:15pm

hedzball wrote: »

Eh... a 7.65 round with a barrel the length of a pencil?..

Thing would be deafening ..

7.65 is a pistol round..it's designed for a small barrel..it's not as hot as a 7.62x39/51.

goodie2shoes · 11-09-2012 6:20pm

The Skorpion SA Vz 61 is a sub machine gun but can be used as a fully automatic pistol. either 10 or 20 rounds of 7.65mm and 25 metre accuracy range. Small gun. Easily silenced too.

so far we got an aeronautical engineer with links to Iraq, a French cyclist who worked in a nuclear facility enriching uranium, and an ex-RAF officer who happens upon them.

the shooter appears to have made good his escape.

:eek:

hedzball · 11-09-2012 7:35pm

Blay wrote: »

7.65 is a pistol round..it's designed for a small barrel..it's not as hot as a 7.62x39/51.

Yup a pistol round..

and also a sub..

But even shooting a 22lr pistol with subs is a loud gun..

Saying that being in a wide open valley too.....
Plus it has the option of being moderated.

yeahimhere · 11-09-2012 10:32pm

reading this thread I've just realised how many people on boards know about guns :eek:

gozunda · 11-09-2012 10:50pm

If it was a professional hit on Mr Hilli then why attempt to take out the entire family?

It would be easier for the assassin to take out him alone when not in the presence of other family members

Very messy for one lone gunman to take out so many including children in a public area popular with tourists.

As a result we have 3 dead family members, one child that was shot and beaten, one child that remained hidden,a dead passing cyclist and another lucky Cyclist who over taken by the first cyclist possibly just missed being taken out by the shooter who apparently had just left...very very mesy and risky mo imo....

sopretty · 11-09-2012 11:11pm

Don't think they were expecting Saad to have the family with him - hence small amount of ammo. They were obviously expecting Saad to be there though. And why was he there? Unless to meet the nuclear scientist/cylist. The family wasn't dressed for hiking. They were there for something else. I.e. a meeting of some sort. Either with the killer? Or the French nuclear scientist/cyclist non?

Witcher · 11-09-2012 11:16pm

sopretty wrote: »

Don't think they were expecting Saad to have the family with him - hence small amount of ammo. They were obviously expecting Saad to be there though. And why was he there? Unless to meet the nuclear scientist/cylist. The family wasn't dressed for hiking. They were there for something else. I.e. a meeting of some sort. Either with the killer? Or the French nuclear scientist/cyclist non?

Maybe they were out for a drive...as I said a few pages back...if someone was going to a secret meeting they wouldn't bring their wife, two kids and their mother in law.

enfant terrible · 11-09-2012 11:16pm

gozunda wrote: »

If it was a professional hit on Mr Hilli then why attempt to take out the entire family?

It would be easier for the assassin to take out him alone when not in the presence of other family members

Very messy for one lone gunman to take out so many including children in a public area popular with tourists.

As a result we have 3 dead family members, one child that was shot and beaten, one child that remained hidden,a dead passing cyclist and another lucky Cyclist who over taken by the first cyclist possibly just missed being taken out by the shooter who apparently had just left...very very mesy and risky mo imo....

Ya doesn't sound so super duper professional hit man when you say it like that.

sopretty · 11-09-2012 11:21pm

Blay wrote: »

Maybe they were out for a drive...as I said a few pages back...if someone was going to a secret meeting they wouldn't bring their wife, two kids and their mother in law.

Seems like an odd place (secluded dead-end car-park leading to forest/wooded hikes? ) to go for a drive to? When you're dressed smartly and not dressed for hiking? In a tourist destination which presumably would have some more family-friendly activities to engage in rather than parking in a secluded car-park?

Witcher · 11-09-2012 11:23pm

sopretty wrote: »

Seems like an odd place (secluded dead-end car-park leading to forest/wooded hikes? ) to go for a drive to? When you're dressed smartly and not dressed for hiking? In a tourist destination which presumably would have some more family-friendly activities to engage in rather than parking in a secluded car-park?

Well two cyclists thought it was a good route to take.

gozunda · 11-09-2012 11:31pm

sopretty wrote: »

Don't think they were expecting Saad to have the family with him - hence small amount of ammo. They were obviously expecting Saad to be there though. And why was he there? Unless to meet the nuclear scientist/cylist. The family wasn't dressed for hiking. They were there for something else. I.e. a meeting of some sort. Either with the killer? Or the French nuclear scientist/cyclist non?

They were staying in a caravan in a camping site. On paper looked like they were out for a drive with granny & kids not hiking. If they were been watched / followed by gunman he/she took hell of a risk trying to take everyone out. A good hit man would I presume wait for an opportune moment to take Mr Hilli out when he was alone. If mr Hilli turned up with family in toe it would have made sense to wait for a better opportunity especially if lack of ammo was going to be an issue. But who knows maybe the hit man panicked or something.

ringadingding · 11-09-2012 11:34pm

We were discussing this in work today,and the feasibility that the cyclist was the hit, and the family as a decoy...

The cyclist, apparently worked within a French nuclear company, was the only one shot 5 times, was way more trackable than the family ( used to do that bike ride the same time, same day every week ) and has been swept under the rug.
Also, the fact that IMO anybody professional enough to do that hit in that manner of shooting, would have known how many people were in the car and left no witnesses.

Just another angle we were pondering today, also some people put it out there the cyclist and yer man the father, could have been meeting secretly, but thats proper left field right there.

When I was just a kid, 8 or so, a man living in our street was hit professionally, he worked for MI5, nobody had a notion ( our street was in the middle of a big rough estate). I remember the media and police etc, and that went unsolved, It still bugs me 22 years later.
Somebody went through our back garden, into his, and shot him through his window.

sopretty · 11-09-2012 11:34pm

Blay wrote: »

Well two cyclists thought it was a good route to take.

Which either makes them fond of random up-hill cycles to dead-end routes enjoying the scenery and the whizz back down the hill? Or makes their wee trip a little unusual? That said, apparently the road was popular with cyclists. Anyone know how far 'up the hill and off the beaten track' the carpark/scene of crime was from the nearest main road?

gozunda · 11-09-2012 11:41pm

sopretty wrote: »

Blay wrote: »

Well two cyclists thought it was a good route to take.

Which either makes them fond of random up-hill cycles to dead-end routes enjoying the scenery and the whizz back down the hill? Or makes their wee trip a little unusual? That said, apparently the road was popular with cyclists. Anyone know how far 'up the hill and off the beaten track' the carpark/scene of crime was from the nearest main road?

From what I have read / seen the pull in was car accessible from road and adjacent to road and not that remote. This type of pull in is quite common in France especially in tourist routes hence passing cyclists. Not that strange for a car to pull off main route ..

sopretty · 11-09-2012 11:43pm

That's interesting that Mollier cycled that road same time every week.

What easier way then to NOT raise suspicion about meeting Saad than saying - 'Hey - I go for a cycle up to such-and-such a place at this time every week - meet me there - as I won't be trailed since i do it every week' 'Bring the family and you won't be under suspicion or be trailed either'

?

bbam · 11-09-2012 11:44pm

OK I haven't read every post, maybe this was discussed.

The position of the car is odd too. To me it looks like it was reversed into the bank, maybe an attempt to escape.
You can see on the rear door where the wheels have been spinning in reverse or driven at speed in reverse. The rear wheel looks buried from spinning in place.

Mr.Crinklewood · 12-09-2012 12:02am

ringadingding wrote: »

We were discussing this in work today,and the feasibility that the cyclist was the hit, and the family as a decoy...

The cyclist, apparently worked within a French nuclear company, was the only one shot 5 times, was way more trackable than the family ( used to do that bike ride the same time, same day every week ) and has been swept under the rug.
Also, the fact that IMO anybody professional enough to do that hit in that manner of shooting, would have known how many people were in the car and left no witnesses.

Just another angle we were pondering today, also some people put it out there the cyclist and yer man the father, could have been meeting secretly, but thats proper left field right there.

When I was just a kid, 8 or so, a man living in our street was hit professionally, he worked for MI5, nobody had a notion ( our street was in the middle of a big rough estate). I remember the media and police etc, and that went unsolved, It still bugs me 22 years later.
Somebody went through our back garden, into his, and shot him through his window.

I assumed that the cyclist was shot several times, as he came upon the scene and was therefore shot at from distance and it took more shots to take him down.

If he was the intended target, i`d think it would be one or two clean shots. ( or perhaps he was shot multiple times because the shooter really wanted him dead.. )

It would be interesting to see how far he was shot from.

sopretty · 12-09-2012 12:11am

Mr.Crinklewood wrote: »

I assumed that the cyclist was shot several times, as he came upon the scene and was therefore shot at from distance and it took more shots to take him down.

If he was the intended target, i`d think it would be one or two clean shots. ( or perhaps he was shot multiple times because the shooter really wanted him dead.. )

It would be interesting to see how far he was shot from.

If either Mollier or Saad were sole intended targets, either of them could and probably would have been taken out more cleanly. Which suggests to me that both of them were targets. Easiest way was to get them together. They just hadn't banked on the family being there. Assassin panicked? Didn't know what to do? Proceed with the hits? Or abandon ship? Poor phone coverage? Assassin couldn't contact anyone to update on the entire family being there - so did as any good assassin does - carries out the hit as he was instructed?

sonic85 · 16-09-2012 6:37pm

any more news on this? havnt been keeping up with things and all the hysterics seem to have died down

ringadingding · 16-09-2012 6:43pm

sopretty wrote: »

If either Mollier or Saad were sole intended targets, either of them could and probably would have been taken out more cleanly. Which suggests to me that both of them were targets. Easiest way was to get them together. They just hadn't banked on the family being there. Assassin panicked? Didn't know what to do? Proceed with the hits? Or abandon ship? Poor phone coverage? Assassin couldn't contact anyone to update on the entire family being there - so did as any good assassin does - carries out the hit as he was instructed?

Or the family was killed as a decoy ? All of the focus is in them.
Jaysus, I sound veeery conspiracy theory-ist huh