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Abortion/ *Note* Thread Closing Shortly! ! !

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    #9752
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Why don't you answer the question. My scenario is feasible. I was led to believe that questions are supposed to be answered here.

    Why don't you answer my question?


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    #9753
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    I happen to know a black Jewish lesbian. I don't like her.

    Does that mean she can't have access to abortion?


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    #9754
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    aloyisious wrote: »
    That'd be an very extreme scenario, but NOT outside the range of human-thought. I'd say "NO" as it's "based" on a lazyness, a whim or fancy on colour schemes.

    My position on abortions is that a woman must have the last say, on credible grounds: - eg, to eliminate a risk to her health and life - to terminate or abort her pregnancy. I won't be changing my position on the rightness of allowing a woman the final credible say on having an abortion or termination.

    In a way that has a direct bearing on the suicide part of the bill, nay-sayers and doubters questioning of it being a reality have been answered in real life by the pregnant woman who took her own life because her latest pregnancy was revealed by ultrasound to be a boy, not a girl, as she already had several sons.

    I believe your position is very reasonable and considered FWIW. I would have no intention of trying to change your opinion as I am not even fully convinced of my own positions (other than late-term abortions) It appears you have actually weighed up the pros and cons and try to look at it from all angles not simply a case of the woman should be able to do whatever she wants with an unborn child that she has created.

    Just to add, on our previous discussion you believed it to be a criminal act to kill a baby still living after a botched abortion. What if it was simply left to die?


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    #9755
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    lazygal wrote: »
    Why don't you answer my question?
    Because it is insincere.


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    #9756
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Because it is insincere.

    Why? Are you the only one asking sincere questions?


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    #9757
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    lazygal wrote: »
    Does that mean she can't have access to abortion?

    She lives in London so apparently she can have one a day if she wants up to 10 months gestation.

    All she has to do is demand one...


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    #9758
    swampgas
    Registered Users Posts: 3,543 ✭✭✭swampgas


    aloyisious wrote: »
    My position on abortions is that a woman must have the last say, on credible grounds: - eg, to eliminate a risk to her health and life - to terminate or abort her pregnancy. I won't be changing my position on the rightness of allowing a woman the final credible say on having an abortion or termination.

    The issue with this is: who are you (or I or anyone else) to judge what is and isn't a credible reason for something this personal?

    Either you respect a woman's autonomy or you don't - saying you can have an abortion only if I agree that your motivation is credible is not my idea of respecting someone's autonomy.


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    #9759
    Big Bottom
    Registered Users Posts: 346 ✭✭Big Bottom


    If a woman doesn't want have a half cast child and she wants rid of it it should be her right provided she does it early enough I think.


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    #9760
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Big Bottom wrote: »
    If a woman doesn't want have a half cast child and she wants rid of it it should be her right provided she does it early enough I think.

    I'm sorry but who says 'half cast' anymore?


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    #9761
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    So now the scenario is what if a racist woman has a one night stand with a black man???

    What part of it's up to each individual woman whether or not she wishes to be pregnant do you not understand?

    It's really a very simple premise - she who owns the womb gets to decide if she wants the womb occupied and no matter how many of these increasingly bizarre 'what if's' you post will change that simple fact.

    Women should have the right to choose.

    Therefore you are in favour of abortions at 8 and half months should the woman request it, right?


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    #9762
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    I'm sorry but who says 'half cast' anymore?

    Live line callers.


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    #9763
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Therefore you are in favour of abortions at 8 and half months should the woman request it, right?

    Have you a friend who had an abortion at eight and a half months? I had my abortion at nine months. Very positive experience for me and my daughter.


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    #9764
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    lazygal wrote: »
    Have you a friend who had an abortion at eight and a half months? I had my abortion at nine months. Very positive experience for me and my daughter.
    Now you are just trolling. Worse, trolling on a thread about abortion.


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    #9765
    swampgas
    Registered Users Posts: 3,543 ✭✭✭swampgas


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Therefore you are in favour of abortions at 8 and half months should the woman request it, right?

    Why would a woman want to do this - I don't know, maybe she needs chemotherapy? This should be incredibly rare, but I think what should happen is that the 8.5 month baby be delivered early, not killed.

    I honestly don't think extremely unlikely situations like this should be used as a basis for determining the law on abortion - do you?


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    #9766
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Now you are just trolling. Worsione, trolling on a thread about abortion.

    I'm not trolling. As I've said many times, I had an abortion of pregnancy at 39 weeks and no one died.


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    #9767
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Therefore you are in favour of abortions at 8 and half months should the woman request it, right?

    Where did I say that?

    I demand you retract that libelous statement or provide evidence that I ever stated such a thing.


    See - we can all do outrage and hop on our high horses.


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    #9768
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    lazygal wrote: »
    I'm not trolling. As I've said many times, I had an abortion of pregnancy at 39 weeks and no one died.
    I sincerely apologise for the offense caused due to the misunderstanding in that case.

    I mistook your mention of your daughter as the child you lost and wrong took it as a flippant attitude. I assume now it is another daughter you have. I assume it was for medical reasons, which is something entirely different as far as I am concerned.


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    #9769
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Why don't you answer the question. My scenario is feasible. I was led to believe that questions are supposed to be answered here.

    And again you go into whinging mode about people not answering your questions but you have skipped over several pertinent questions with no intention of answering them.


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    #9770
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Where did I say that?

    I demand you retract that libelous statement or provide evidence that I ever stated such a thing.


    See - we can all do outrage and hop on our high horses.

    You said:

    It's really a very simple premise - she who owns the womb gets to decide if she wants the womb occupied

    Now does this or does this not include the right to abortion for the flimsiest of reasons at 8 and a half months?

    (or should I just add this to the list of questions that won't be answered?)


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    #9771
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,407 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Now you are just trolling. Worse, trolling on a thread about abortion.
    No accusations of trolling, please. The mods here will decide whether it's happening, and if so, reserve the right to moderate as they wish to resolve it.


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    #9772
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users Posts: 7,772 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Mark Hamill, you indicated that life would be "better" for the "very poor" if they had less children. Would you like to a legal limit on the number of children the "very poor" can produce?

    Thats the logic of where that question comes from? I know there are jokes about anti-abortions being afraid of multi-story abortionplexes where everyone has to get aborted but I didn't think anyone actually believed anything like that.

    Of course I dont think there should be a legal limit on the number of kids anyone can produce, neither now nor during the famine (which was the time period that was being discussed). Such a ridiculous question.


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    #9773
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    lazygal wrote: »
    I'm not trolling. As I've said many times, I had an abortion of pregnancy at 39 weeks and no one died.

    I think you would save 90% of the bluster about abortion if people realised that abortion is not granting the right to kill your child to mothers. It is merely granting them the right to remove a the fetus from their womb. This is a right everyone else already has, to alter or remove entities from their body if they wish.


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    #9774
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    with the founder of planned parenthood being a eugenicist and a racist I don't think it was such a strange question. Could have been cleared up simply and quickly with a straight answer.


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    #9775
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Mark Hamill, you indicated that life would be "better" for the "very poor" if they had less children. Would you like to a legal limit on the number of children the "very poor" can produce?

    Do you believe poor people cannot be trusted to determine for themselves what is the number of children they financially support?

    If not what is the point of this question?


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    #9776
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Zombrex wrote: »
    I think you would save 90% of the bluster about abortion if people realised that abortion is not granting the right to kill your child to mothers. It is merely granting them the right to remove a the fetus from their womb. This is a right everyone else already has, to alter or remove entities from their body if they wish.

    Exactly. It can't be stated often enough that abortion of pregnancy is not killing anything. Its ending pregnancy and happens up to 42 weeks every day in Ireland.


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    #9777
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    You said:

    It's really a very simple premise - she who owns the womb gets to decide if she wants the womb occupied

    Now does this or does this not include the right to abortion for the flimsiest of reasons at 8 and a half months?

    (or should I just add this to the list of questions that won't be answered?)

    What you are doing is called extrapolating.

    Retract or prove I said that.


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    #9778
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    Will you even just PM me the source of the photo eireannBEAR? Dont even have to answer the questions I asked. Preferably from a source that isnt a group like YD who would take a picture of a 2 year old running in a field and claim it is a 2 week old in the womb
    shruikan2553 wrote: »
    But they should be forced to have the baby instead?

    How many weeks into the pregnancy is the picture you linked from? It looks pretty far along, more than 24 weeks if I were to guess. Wasnt it already shown that less than 2% of abortions are after that stage? Was it even aborted? Could of been a still born.


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    #9779
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    lazygal wrote: »
    Exactly. It can't be stated often enough that abortion of pregnancy is not killing anything. Its ending pregnancy and happens up to 42 weeks every day in Ireland.

    What is the difference between a soon to be aborted healthy 24 week foetus and a living 24 week premature baby?


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    #9780
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users Posts: 7,772 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Therefore you are in favour of abortions at 8 and half months should the woman request it, right?

    I think you are being purposefully ignorant in this respect, as its been explained enough times, but to reiterate:
    Abortion is not actually performed on a foetus, its performed on a pregnancy. An abortion performed on an 8 1/2 moth pregnancy would result in a live baby being born (its probably the simplest and easiest way to end the pregnancy at that stage) and methods could include C section or medical inducement.


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    #9781
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    What is the difference between a soon to be aborted healthy 24 week foetus and a living 24 week premature baby?

    In Ireland they're no different because medical teams will make every effort to save both. I think you may be somewhat uninformed about the law and practice of abortion here. Its to save lives only, and foetuses born alive receive all necessary medical treatment.


This discussion has been closed.
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